VF5FS AI's vs Rank Mode Players

IMO playing against the AI in the special sparring session on very hard is a more exciting and well rounded experience than playing against the majority of players I have met in ranked mode. Here's why:

1) Many players in ranked mode are not familiar with VF game fundamentals. Even some players with relatively high ranks. All is fair in ranked mode. And that is just what we get. More gimmicks, tricks, dicey game play, more wtf-lucky-bullshit-move-was-that than I've ever seen. But Its all kewl. If you know your fundamentals you can overcome it, but its just not as fun as playing agains a well versed AI. There was a Sarah player that had reached Warrior ranks, with 10 variations on the back flip. I lost to this Sarah the first time we played just because I had never seen anything like this before. But the second time we played I dispatched her in short order. But beating her flip mode gimmick was not as enjoyable as beating the 'Go West' AI team in special sparring sessions on the very hard setting.

2) Although the AI can and will SPAM in general you get a more rounded match against the character you're fighting against. So in a match between you and any one of the AI characters you will be presented with a well rounded interpretation of the character. For example you won't get a Sarah or Kage or Jackie that only knows flip mode and a single combo.


3) Not only do many players in ranked mode not have a complete grasp of the fundamentals of the game, many players in do not take the time out to even thoroughly learn the movelists of the character that are using. Many many players in rank mode, learn a few tricks and gimmicks with a character and then move on. You'll be surprised how far one or two good combos can get you in ranked mode. Fortunately the AI in VF5FS has no such problem. Obviously the AI has access to the full move list for any character, and in the special sparring sessions the AI does use a great deal of the movelist for any character against you.

4) The AI is always there ready and willing to play you day or night for a long as you want. Sometimes ranked mode is empty, or only the same old players are there with the same old gimmicks that you are tired of playin.

5) The AI has more variation and diversity than most of the players in ranked mode. Most (not all) players only have one or two looks they can give you, Whereas the AI can come out of 4 or 5 different bags, depending on what you bring.

Sure the AI's in special sparring sessions are not better than the top players on ranked mode PSN but they are better than the average player on PSN. This is not so much an indictment on the average player on PSN as much as it is an indorsement of the pretty enjoyable AI in VF5FS.

 

You are correct in stating that the AI in VF5FS is much more enjoyable to play against than other AIs in other fighting games (looking at you garbage Tekken AI...).

However, in my humble opinion, the aspect that will ALWAYS make a human opponent (regardless of skill) more enjoyable to play than any AI is the sheer randomness that comes with playing other people. I can play against three different Jackys in three consecutive games and have three completely different matches. The one thing that you will get from fighting them that you won't get from an AI is a learning experience.

You mentioned that you fought a Sarah that had a good number of setups into her flip kick? Guess what, you learned what to look for the next time you fight a Sarah. Whereas, the AI, despite the difficulty setting, will almost always fall for the same traps and setups over and over again. Not to say that the AI is a walk in the park, but you can only learn so much from it...

My 2 cents...

 

Dingo, I'm actually glad that we can have an intelligent discussion about this , especially considering that VF is a world class example of a fighting game. Because the subject of AI will define all of this b4 its all over.

in response to your analysis

1) The sheer randomness that you speak of (when it comes to human players) is not always enjoyable to me. In many cases the randomness is do to lack of skill, mashing, lag, misunderstanding of the game fundamentals. Yes I like to be challenged by randomness when its motivated by skill, cunning, and wit, but not when its a by product of poor game play. Most of the randomness that I encounter on PSN in ranked mode, has
nothing to do with skill (not all of it, but most of it).


2) In terms of what I learned from the flip mode Sarah. I learned nothing. I already had the skills to beat this sarah. I was just caught by surprise, and stunned at how ridiculous the gimmick was, and amazed that it worked. I fought her in a rematch immediately afterward and dispatched her 3 to 0. I didn't learn anything inbetween matches, outside of knowing what to expect from that particular player. And neither match was enjoyable, not the one that I loss or the one that I won. The player played sarah as though it was a spoof of sarah. Dingo, no matter how good you are, even if you are the ultimate VF master, you can always meet somebody that can surprise you with some wacky shit and win a match. In other words you can never learn all the wacky shit that somebody can come up with. Never! I'm just saying I don't enjoy beating ppl with these gimmicks (although all is fair in rank mode) . Its just not my cup of tea.

3) In terms of Randomness of AI in Special Sparring Session set on Very Hard, I don't think we're talking about the same game. You can face three AI Jacky's and have a very different experience in the special sparring sessions. I have news for you. You can face the same Jacky three times and have a different experience each time. In fact, TBH
I've been playing special sparring since day one, outside of what the characters are wearing, I don't recall much repetition at all! Maybe its because I'm trying to bring something different each time I dunno, but I think Sega has the randomness down pat, in the AI on hard settings. And the difference between the Randomness in the AI and the Randomness with the Average Player in Rank mode, is that the Ai's randomness won't be based on some get-away-from-here-with-that-bullshit-gimmick. The AI is going to hit you randomly with something that will probably works as opposed to hitting you with something that only works because this is the first time I've seen it, and the second time I will shut that trash down. For example, for us on consoles Jean was a new character with VF5FS. My first few times facing a Jean in Rank mode resulted in some shocking losses, because I had never seen his moves. I didn't know what was a low, or high attack. The AI doesn't have to rely on your unfamiliarity with its moves to win. On the other hand The randomness that many Rank mode players bring, rely on the fact, absolutely count of the fact that you have never seen their gimmicks before and they win one match simply because of your unfamiliarity. But as soon as sound player has seen the shenanigans once, they rarely work the second time. The AI doesn't rely on these kinds of shenanigans to win, it will bring randomness in the form of solid game play, and in many instances in VF5FS you'll get beat even though you saw it comin

4) In terms of falling for the same traps and setups over and over again, this is certainly the case with the average player on PSN. There are many many players on PSN right now that see it comin, but have no idea of what to do about it. And can play you many consecutive matches and continue to eat the same 3 or 4 combos over and over again. Sure the more advanced players can get away (Sometimes) but on average , human players are nothing special in this department, they fall for the same traps and setups. On the other hand the AI set to very hard in the Special Sparring Sessions, is not going to give you many opportunities to set your traps or to perform your settups LOL, you're going to spend a lot more time defending , and back dashing, and running for your life, than you will setting the AI up. Granted, if you an expert player, you will be able to reasonably handle the AI in VF5FS, but my point is that playing against the AI (at least to me) is simply more enjoyable because the AI on very hard, takes you to the hoops without all the bullshit-I-bet-you-never-seen-this-wacky-sequence-of-moves-before gimmickry.

I've held this position for a long time, VF5FS has just reaffirmed it. Only when you're playing with master human players, does the game play start to compare to playing the AI's. But for the average player on PSN the matches are anticlimatical imo. And I can tell when I've been in RANK mode too long: my reflexes degrade a little, my creativity is off, redunancy creeps in, a bad habit will creep up. On the other hand, I have to be absolutely on top of my game to consistently beat the AI's in the special sparring sessions.

It is a romantic notion to think no matter what, human vs human will alway be the most enjoyable matches. And that the AI's will never immitate or improve on our randomness, spontaneity, creativy, persistance, and imagination in a fighting game. Unfortunately, its just a romantic notion. Because AI's are almost there now, and certainly in the next generation of fighting games they will have arrived.

It won't be long b4 the braggin rights are going to sound something like:

I just took my Avenger Rank from a Fuckin level 5 AI
or
Remember that TigerClaw Lau? the one with that level 7 AI? Dude! I finally beat that bastard after about 50 or 60 matches

Sure, we'll all be fighting online, but the human vs human matches will get you only as far as 10th Dan. Soon we'll fighting some wicked ass AI's to get to higher ranks like Doomslayer, LionHeart etc. Ai's that will not go quitely

 

MasterPo, why you keep killing any idea you have - no matter how good or bad it is - with sheer amount of text you keep hiding it inside?
With all respect, your inability to put ideas into decently long posts is really alarming. And it aslo makes any attempt to communicate with you really hard.

Because AI's are almost there now, and certainly in the next generation of fighting games they will have arrived.
Unfortunatelly, I can not disagree more. The AI WAS there. VF4 ai. Evo AI was almost as good. VF5 ai was pretty decent. FS ai is good when compared to tekken, but sucks when compared to previous VFs.
Anyway... I do not think we will get GREAT ais anytime soon. If it will be marketable, Sega will keep the track from vf4 and/or other games companies will follow. This does not happen and instead, we are stucked with the some garbage ai in all that tekkens and doas and with not-as-good-as-it-was ai in VF. That indicates something for sure.

 

This is a matter of personal preference.

Granted I would love if everyone on PSN was a friggin' DoomSlayer or above, that's just not going to happen. And in all honesty, a room full of all-stars can get tiring. As even the best of the best fall into "routines" that can be exploited. That being said, it's still the randomness of the lower-level players that keeps me on my toes. If I feel I'm getting a little too comfortable doing a particular setup or combo, a human opponent will do a better job of picking up on my patterns than an AI. Thus forcing me to adapt quickly.

I enjoy that, and even against lower players, I feel like I learned something. The AI can, at times, accomplish the same thing, yet...there is only so much RAM in the machine. It can only observe me for so long before it runs out of "tricks". And, unlike a human opponent, it can't "perceive" what I might do. It can only go on what it sees. That makes it too abusable. Add onto that that the AI knows all the moves available to a character, and that moves properties, makes it impossible to "out think" it as it doesn't think, it reacts.

Mind fucking is a major part of direct competition games. You lose that with an AI.

You didn't learn anything from that Sarah? Perhaps you weren't looking for the right things. Remember, you lost the first match because that players use of Sarah was dramatically different from any other that you had seen. And regardless of the player's skill, his tactics were more than enough to dispatch you in the first match (even if his tactic was having no tactic at all).

But, you DID learn something even if you aren't aware of it. You figured out what move left you vulnerable to his flip kicks, what setups he might have used (if any at all), or what setups induced a flip kick from him giving you a free punisher.

You might not have gained a huge amount of knowledge from him. If anything you might have gained more knowledge about your own play style and how to refine it to prevent future shenanigans like this. Every match, regardless of the opponent, is an opportunity to learn.

This is a lesson, not just for Virtua Fighter, but for life in general. Or atleast that's how I like to look at it.

Your last few points go hand-in-hand with familiarity. And actually reaffirms what I stated above about always learning.

You're a better player today than you were when you first picked up VF. Simply because of continuous play, if nothing else. You saw things, learned things, tried things, and figured stuff out. You might not know the specific frame data or properties or whatever. But you know that X move with LeiFei beats X move from the other guy. You know that because at some point along the way the other guy beat your ass, and you didn't like that, so you figured it out.

Again, the AI can do this, but only to a certain extent. The AI can only go on the "facts" that it knows, not the feelings that it doesn't have. As far as I'm concerned that's a major major factore in competition. The feeling you get from the opponent, what you perceive he "might" do. Not because it's the right thing to do, but because it's what he wants to do.

That's a lesson you'll never learn from an AI.

And there's your answer. This is a video game, it's just a pasttime. It's supposed to be fun. If playing the single player does it for you, then by all means have at it bro...

 

How do you know that the AI is more well rounded than the people in ranked, when you never even fight in ranked?

Also:
Theres no use in fighting the AI at all, because you can never know what it thinks. Thats the way you win matches in VF is after all, by anticipating what your opponent will do next.
You either dont know what the AI will do at all, or its easy to figure out its patterns and the challenge is lost. Its also the same for your precious special sparring AIs. There are just to many examples to name, where its easy to figure out.
Humans however will find counter your strategy, which you can counter, which they can counter and so on. An AI wont do that, it doesnt even want to win.
And potentially you could make the strongest AI ever, if you just allowed it to react immediately to anything the player does. It can always use a faster attack, throw when you block, in a direction where you dont throwbreak and block your every attack while escaping any possible throw.

Lastly:

Cant you bear it that someone didnt reply instantly to the same damn post in the other thread? Do you have to open a whole new thread and steal peoples time with your essays on your opinion?

 

Po, your point is invalid because you wont play the best people in ranked so you have no idea what you're talking about and have no business trying to compare it to special sparring or whatever mode you stroke your dick over.

Yomi is nonexistent vs the AI and that is what most of this game is about. Playing vs the AI is shallow and empty. It has it's uses for technical aspects of the game but it isn't the same as vs a human opponent at all, no matter how skilled they are.

Complaining that the players in ranked are too random and unskilled compared to the AI is stupid when you're only playing the worst guys in there (I know you only play Defenders and lower). Play the highest ranked people and that will be a fair comparison and maybe you'll see the difference. Until then....

 

I guess my position would be 'what's the point?'. I mean, to me, a fighting game is about friendly competition with other people. I don't enjoy beating the computer at a fighting game because it's a pre-set difficulty with exploitable patterns and unrealistic reactions and 'reads' on your gameplay. The game is designed for human vs human competition. It's designed with the understanding that the average player will have a reaction speed of between X-Y. The AI can be set to have ridiculously higher or lower values than these. The AI can struggle out of the most ridiculous staggers, throw-escape your every attempt etc, unless you purposely limit its capabilities... but why would you want to do that? Why would you want to play against a handicapped opponent?

The fun for me is the differences between different players' styles. It's fun to know that, sometimes, I'm just the better player and I'm going to use stupid moves and silliness because there's no way I can lose. It's fun to know that, sometimes, I'm totally out-matched, I'm very likely to get trounced, and it'll be a nice personal achievement if I manage to win a game/round whatever. Mostly, it's fun to know that I'm playing against like-minded players with similar skill levels, who'll be a nice challenge and will enjoy the game. I'm not ever going to get any of that from an AI.

I mean, look at my options:

1)Play against the AI's Pai, Kage, Aoi, and Lion for an hour. Watch it fall for the same 'bait the rising kick and punish' crap, watch it escape my throws every time, and adjust my play such that I never play the rising game against the AI because it's boring and never use throws, staggers, abare etc because it doesn't work.

2)Join ranked. Play a fair amount of weak players with poor skills, and maybe learn one or two things every 10 games about characters of whom I know little. Find someone like Vencabot, Koenraku, Nomas_Tomas, or Raze in ranked. Get some games, realise they're a good player and that we're having fun games. Add them to friends list. Rinse/repeat a few times. End up with a friends list full of good players, such that, when I log on, I can just see which of 'em are online and get them in Player Matches, or a room if there's enough people.

This is really where I'm at now. I can log on, and almost guarantee that BlackGeneral, White Worm, Koenraku, Raze, Nomas, Mike, etc etc etc will be online, and I can get games with good players. Add that to the fact that we have VFDC here and a couple of minutes in the chatbox will likely find you a few opponents, and you really don't need ranked mode.

The only time I play ranked is if I really can't be arsed playing people that will make my strive to win, and I just want to breeze through easy matches because I'm lazy/bored, and even then, I'm exposing myself to the possibility of finding new good players that I can add to my list. I even found a good Wolf player the other day - they're not on VFDC but I gave him a shoutout in the PSN GGs thread and asked him to join us here - who knows, maybe it'll work.

 

But he fights in ranked!He just carefully choose who.
...
Oh, right. He choose who he will dodge and he fight only who he wants to fight.
And obviously, he decides that "I choose you, flipkick Sarah!" Complain complain!

Well, there are pretty decent ways how to emulate human "thinking" into AI. Not how to made AI to think human, but how to made it look like ti is.
It was partially used in VF5 for Xbox and when we where working on one prototype game in my old work (unfortunatelly the game gets canceled because of expanses), we find several relatively easy ways how to emulate the "vs human player feeling" with decently high rate of success.
I am not saying AI in fighting games is good. I am just saying there are decent ways how to make AI looking human enough; even to the extension where you will not be able to tell the difference from human you are playing online (no matter the level of their skill). Adaptation, countering, mistakes... All this can be emulated not perfectly, but convincingly. It is just matter of money and time - and commercial decision that is worth to make it.
I believe that in this, MasterPo is right. I just don't believe the commercial decision to backup this options will be made, at least not in the near future.

 

@unicorn I don't just post for the immediate present and players, but for future generations You all don't realize it, but we're all making history. Its my duty to be complete LOL

@ Elite, @Sey
Just because I haven't played all of you, doesn't mean I haven't played any of you. I've played maybe 2 dozen top players, several with ranks far above mine. (but that's not my habit) I've played ppl with skillz way above mine and have been decimated. So I am familiar with how some of the best players play. Keep in mind some top players have low ranks. (because they don't play ranked much)

From some of the responses to my posts it sounds like not everyone has spent a lot of time with VF5FS AI's in special sparring sessions on very hard. It sounds like some of you are responding based on past experiences with the AI's or even the AI's in other fighting games.

@Brodiman

The problem is part of what you are arguing against is the inevitable. Unicorn has it right when he says:

"All this can be emulated not perfectly, but convincingly. It is just matter of money and time - and commercial decision that is worth to make it. I believe that in this, MasterPo is right. I just don't believe the commercial decision to backup this options will be made, at least not in the near future."

But he thinks not in the near future, but here I believe Unicorn is not correct. Here's why it will be necessary to invest,improve and deploy the kind of AI that will fool you:

1) good video games can cost millions if not hundreds of millions of dollars to make.

2) Every publisher that puts out a game wants gamer loyalty

3) Because the gaming industry is a gold mine, more and more companies want in.

4) Because the number of semi-serious to hardcore gamers is finite there will be
more good games made than there are players to play them

5)There will be serious competition for the loyalty of the finite number of gamers

6)The online experiences will be made better and better to keep the gamer

7) Since no one wants to get online only to find a ghost town, publishers will use
improved AI and pass them off as human players so that it will seem that somebody
is online at all times in order to keep brand loyalty.

I'm sure most of you already know this because of your experiences with some of the popular FPS and 3rd person shooters, that fillin AI's when there is not enough players for both teams

We all know that the first few months the game is out, everybody's online, but after about 6months maybe as long as 9 months, online traffic drops, and ppl move on to the next hot game. Only the hardcore players for that title remain. Well the publishers don't want you to move on to the next thing, they want the online experience to be as exciting 18 months after release as it was on day 1. So they will improve lobbys, have more social network connections(facebook, twitter, mobile apps, etc) to attempt to keep gamer loyalty.
But that's not enough, online games need online gamers, and if theres going to be more good games than there are gamers, then they will make more gamers in the form of more advanced AIs. That way whenever you log on to something like VF5FS there will always be someone in ranked mode, player mode, room player mode etc.


@Unicorn, they're going to spend the money on the AI because its going to in the long run, help them recoup their costs. You're right in that its expensive, but its becoming a necessary expense because If I log on to a game like Socom4 and there's nobody online, then, I might change to Black Ops 2. If I log on to SC5 and nobody's in the lobby, I might move on to VF. The game publishers will try to prevent this by using AI's as fill ins.

@Brodiman and other AI critics. The new AI is based off probability, not on seeing your moves and then countering whatever you do. The new AI schemes are using abduction and bayesian probabilities, they're part data mining and part induction. Some are using fuzzy logic. So its not about knowing exactly what your inputs are, its about the AI guessing based on the probability of what you inputs are going to be. Further, the new Agent models of AI's have their own game plan, instead of worrying about your inputs they're focusing on their own goal, which is to win. Probability is the key idea in modern day Ai

 

Well I tried to play you, but you always decline my challenges before the connection bar even appears. Im just saying you are trying to present yourself as something you are not and that is a player who can judge the skill of others, which you clearly cant.
I also cant name anybody who played you in ranked from here. I saw you play in numbers room, didnt see you win a match though.
Dont try to talk yourself out of this, you dont have a claim on beeing able to judge others playstyles.

The bad thing is, that you will still try and talk yourself out of this so that it appears, that you actually know how people play. But you dont, you may know how AI works, but thats not all you need to know.
Maybe you could try to accept the fact that other people dont think that AI will be more important than human opponents, now or in the future.

 

Wow.... Seyu.... LOL Let me clear things up for you my friend

1) I'm not trying to present myself as anything. This post simply says that I prefer to play
AI on very Hard compared to the average person in Rank. (What do you mean I'm trying to present myself as something LOL) I've repeatedly said I find the AI games more enjoyable and more well rounded (That's simply my opinion nothing more nothing less) What do you mean I'm trying to present myself as something I'm not) I qualified my statements with many average players, or the average player in ranked mode. So, your first statement is simply false. You've fabricated in your mind because we haven't played.

2) The fact that you can't name anybody from here that has played me, only shows that you don't know everybody on this site LOL. Maybe you think you're more popular than you are Do you feel you personally know everyone? Or do you feel you know all of the best players on this site? If you do, you might want to ask around a little more.

3) News Alert! There are master VF players that are on PSN, that have nothing to do with this site Perhaps that comes as a shock to you. Sometimes we get a little myoptic here on VFDC and we start to see ourselves bigger than we actually are

4) Seyu, I'm being as honest as I can be here. I don't know you from a red brick.
I've never played you. I have no idea whether you have skillz or not. In fact I
don't even know anyone that has played you. In my world you have no reputation
whatsoever. So don't flatter yourself because I cancel out of match that you
try to set up. When I don't accept your particular matches, its not because I
fear you, I don't even know you, or know of you LOL. Whats your rank?
I normally don't fight too far out of my rank (but occasionally I do) , or sometimes
I just don't like the way someone's screen name looks. I'm eccentric that way.
For instant when I see the name Seyu I think little Punk who probably uses,
Eileen, Kage, or the little masked wrestler LOL. I hate fighting those three, they're
always so much work. So I might not accept a match on that basis. That's perhaps
one of the redeeming values of Ranked mode, you can say no if you want. Out
of curiosity who do you use? LOL. Seyu be careful what you ask for. Many
players have stalked me, only for me to finally click Okay, and the match does not
go their way. It would be a shame for you to call me out like this and then we
finally play and you wind up with a less than successful outcome.

5) I am known for all of my talk about losing, and the fact that I brag about losing,
and the fact that I think losing is more important than winning, and the fact that
I have probably loss more games in VF than you've played in VF (probably)
Its a Zen thang. I may have over a dozen posts on this site just dedicated to
my philosophy on losing. So don't get your panties all in a bunch because
I say no to matches with you. I have no fear of losing to anyone regardless to whether
they have more skillz or less skillz than I have. Losing is my thing, and I claim to be
better at it than anyone else. Seyu from the way you're calling me out, its probably
lucky for you that I click cancel LOL.

6) Seyu says:

"Maybe you could try to accept the fact that other people dont think that AI will be more important than human opponents, now or in the future

Seyu, it appears you are all up in the koolaid, but you don't know what flavor is being served. If you go back and look at my initial post in this thread. The very first one.
Its starts out with three letters IMO maybe you don't know what those three letters stand for. So I'll decode them for you. In My Opinon. I started this thread my friend with the caveat of In My Opinon. So what that means is what other ppl think was not a consideration, or what other ppl don't think will happen in the future with AI, also was not a consideration. Now of course AI is part of what I do in my profession, so my opinion my carry a little more weight than someone who has nothing to do with AI. But nevertheless I started the thread out with IMO.

7) In terms of trying to talk my self out of this. ROFLMAO, talk myself out of what my
friend? Talk myself out of the fact that you're proof that I say no to some matches?
As far as knowing how ppl play, are you challenging any of my descriptions?
Its impossible for me to have played thousands of matches and not know how ppl
play. Maybe I don't know how you play but so what. I'm willing to bet that you're
probably not the phenom you think you are LOL (no seriously) VF players fit into
about 5 or 6 categories (even the good players). I'm sure you fit into one of the
major categories.


@Seyu don't take this personally, but even when I lose I win. DJ Khaleed wrote a song about
me not to long ago. All I do is win, win,win everybody hands go up and they stay there. No on a serious note:

We know that where there is no contention, there is neither defeat nor victory. The supple willow does not contend against the storm, yet it survives.Weakness prevails over strength. Gentleness conquers. Become the calm and restful breeze that tames the violent sea. From the crane we learn grace and self control. The snake teaches us suppleness and rhythmic endurance. The praying mantis teaches us speed and patience. And from the tiger we learn tenacity and power. And from the dragon we learn to ride the wind. Life sustains life, and all living creatures need nourishment. Yet with wisdom, the body learns to sustain in ways that all may live. Who can defeat himself? For what is evil, but the self seeking to fulfill its own secret needs. All that is necessary is that we face it, and choose. Perceive the way of nature, and no force of man can harm you. Do not meet a wave head on. Avoid it. You do not have to stop force. It is easier to redirect it. Learn more ways to preserve, than to destroy. Avoid, rather than check. Check, rather than hurt. Hurt, rather than maim. Maim, rather than kill. For all life is precious. Nor can any be replaced




@Seyu, This is the way of Shaolin and the Shaolin Temple, and I am Sifu Po a.k.a The LastMonk

 

When I join masterpo in ranked with my NA account he never accepts. When I join him in ranked with my JP account (he doesn't know it's kamais!) he... Accepts!

You can't explain that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

ahem... and who is kamais?

 

I knew you wouldn't be able to explain yourself and instead resort to being petty. I can play that game too though. Who's kamais? He's that Jeffry player who has an undefeated streak on your ass. Bro, you need to step up your game in vf and in the forums, it seems you are getting more delusional by the day. I call this the sweet syndrome.

 

CPU vs ranked, I think I can see how CPU might be more interesting.
It doesn't beat player match, though. If someone doesn't give enough challenge, I can always happily switch to another character without the risk of regret and make it enjoyable for us both. Sometimes I even get lucky and get a set against someone stronger than me! But ranked... I just go there when I'm so desperate I don't even care about quality. Since it's the shit hole of VF.

 

I had recently an interesting match with Masterpo. My roommate who has subaccount on psn started two rounds on Po with Brad, got screwed and he gave controller to me. Consequently the "cheating" worked and I won two rounds but just about lost the fifth. Just curious, did you sense that player changed?

I get the AI argument, as I had to play and train for years mostly in previous games since human players were scarce. Now at last with net play, I guess I enjoy the psychological mindscrewing so much I see no point anymore in AI play. Since customs are totally present too, I can focus on the "feast itself" and try to compensate for those "lost" years.

So maybe I'm biased, having overdosed 1P f-games already. But decent AI can be ok run, just had some VF3 action and was pleasantly surprised. Generally I think f-game AI has gone worse, older games generally were better and VF4/Evo perhaps were the zenith.

 

Oh hey Po. I think you may have taken my post a little personal. Im really not trying to start a fight here, sorry if it seemed that way.
Just some last words in response to the last post:

You do judge others skill by saying you know what the "average" is. That implies you have enough experience to judge the average. In fact you only know the lower skilled people, those arent average.
I dont need to talk about my rank, but i played a lot of good players as you can see in the good and bad games threads. Please dont think i base my arguments on nothing.

Anyway i skipped the rest of your post after the 2nd point. I dont want to get into an argument here. Take care!

edit: okay i read the part where you talk about why you dont fight me:
You can say that you know the average even less then, if you choose your opponents like that.
Also personal offenses are not neccesary.

 

Came here to post the same thing, oh well... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Kamais_Ookin LOL, the tag does seem familiar, maybe we crossed posts at some time in the past. Interms of a jeffry player who has an undefeated streak on my ass, there are about 12 such jeffrey players. And your point is?......

Like in my response to Seyu, I do not accept every challenge, in many cases I don't take ppl who are far beyond my rank, in some cases if I've played the person 1 or 2 times I pass.
In some situations players have screen names/tags that just rub me the wrong way, like Kamais_Ookin I have no idea what it means, no frame of reference, its a weird name to me, I'd probably pass all day on that one. But now that I know you're a Jeffrey, we'll probably hook up more. I like playing jeffreys even ones that have an undefeated streak on my ass If you're the jeffrey I'm thinking of, it was a one way combo fest. I often lose to those. That style reminds me of two friends that I have that both have erection disorders. How do I know that? Because I'm a monk my chums often confide in me. Anway, They could both get it up, but they had to hurry up and bust a nutt before they lost their erections Those combofests players remind me a lot of my two buddies. They've got to hurry up and get those combo's off before they lose there concentration and focus within the match. So normally when I play these guys, I try to see if I can stretch the match out a little. To see if the player will lose his focus if he can't immediately get into his combo rhythm. Honestly, I don't know which of the 12 Jeffries that have win streaks against me you are, but I know one of them seemed like he had the erection/combo problem. Its not that he had a high pressure game, he had a hurry up lets get this over game. Its almost like he wasn't sure whether his 3 attack setups would work on me, and that he was relieved when they did. But you Kamais_Ookin are probably not that guy. There was one other Jeffrey you could be, this cat normally played XBL, so I didn't see him much on PSN. This Jeffrey had some pretty good skills and dispatched me like a VF veteran should, although he was little combo happy also, just not as much. He was the kind of Jeffrey that if I did play 4 or 5 matches consecutively, He would find that I get considerably stronger after my third match. Not because I figure the other guy out, but because I don't think my opponent really relaxes until he beats me 2 or 3 times. Once he's relaxed and the foreplay is over, then the real matches can start. At that point my opponent says, yeah, monk's kind-a-weak. So he starts to pull out his trick moves, and practice his I-usually-cant-do-it-combos to see if he can get them off. And once he's gotten one of those off, then my game starts to show up. I'm not saying I immediately start to win or anything. I am saying, I barely bring any game at all until I've lost 2 or 3 times to you, and I'm sure you're relaxed and you're not playing one of those I've got to ejaculate-my-combos-right away-or-might-lose matches. Once I'm sure we're out of that territory, then we play at the level I'm most comfortable playing. I do lose at this level about 15 to 20 percent of the time. Anyway now that I know you're a Jeffrey, I'll show that I do have some manners.

Cheers Kamis_Ookin