Virtua Fighter 3 vs Dead or Alive 2 vs Tekken 3

It's been a long time in the making but it's finally here! This is a mega awesome episode of VERSUS BATTLECAST that pit Virtua Fighter 3, Dead or Alive 2, and Tekken 3 against each other to determine which one is the better game:


VERSUS BATTLECAST - Episode 6: Virtua Fighter 3 vs Dead or Alive 2 vs Tekken 3


The video also details the following for Virtua Fighter 3:

- Virtua Fighter 3's history and arcade audience impact
- Virtua Fighter 3's impact for arcade vendors and console market
- Why Virtua Fighter 3 loses appeal in the Western market but spearheads in the Asian market
- Great fighting action! (no poor plays)
- Detailed tutorial of how to perform the Korean Step! A first!




Enjoy this great trip down memory lane and enjoy! If you enjoy the episode then check out the rest of Versus Battlecast in the link below because it also showcased Virtua Fighter 2 and many other titles against each other:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEDED0C203D71D110

 

The Korean Step flow chart is now up on http://www.versusbattlecast.com.

 

So have you posted this link to Tekken Zaibatsu and DOA central too?

Let me blunt here. Your avatar, your post, your whole show clarifies to me that you are a Sega fanboy and your show is clearly biased. Even the title of the whole show sounds like what trollbait posts used to be like.

(This Namco game sold bazillion copies and spawned 20 sequels, but this nearly forgotten Sega game is obviously better according to the "experts." Rinse and repeat.)

VF3 (combined with the release of Tekken 3) pretty much killed the VF 's popularity outside Japan, including the rest of Asia and came close to killing it in Japan too despite what all the fanboys say. Remember, VF2 was pretty popular outside Japan, including the US. Under its shadow Tekken 2 was a little more than a laughing stock and was no where near as popular. It completely changed with the releases of VF3 and Tekken 3.

It was way too overpriced for the world's arcades already under decline--it was built to satisfy the Suzuki ego, NOT the market. It had all the features wanted by Yu Suzuki but NOT wanted by the VF2 players. In Japan, even though it had a fair amount of new blood, a lot of VF2 players quit playing and VF3 never enjoyed the level of popularity enjoyed by VF2. Actually that's true pretty much everywhere else. Don't confuse ShinZ's (Akira Kid) achievement with the VF's popularity in Korea. No, the VF community did not grow continuously in Korea. It pretty much died painfully and slowly with the release of VF3.

I give you props on the fact that your show does seem to serve as a documentary of a sort for old games. (Even though it has many inaccuracies and poor play examples as far VF3 is concerned.) All the above points all maybe pretty much irrelevant to what you define as a "better game." But I find your whole "verdict" thing pretty much irrelevant as well.

 

This was pretty awesome thanks for the link! It was cool how they broke down steppin in VF3 down, and how the Evade button was used.

The footage from the VF3 and Tekken 3 footage was a nice treat.

 

VF3 cab was way TOO expensive on the market back to 1996 compared with other 2D games. A regular arcade store couldn't afford even one single setup, and the best scene I had was total 3 cabs with 1 giant screen in one arcade store in Taiwan. For VF2, there was like 2 rows on sides and each row with 15 cabs. That was the craziest moment in VF era. More worse, both Saturn and DC were beat by PS and PS2.

Btw, the video is great, but it's too obvious with a bias opinion. Or who cares about the games die decade ago? I'm looking for the next episode.

 

Thanks for your thoughts, Hyunster.

Let's be fair. This is a VF forum so, of course, I will tailor the OP to fit to this forum. I haven't gotten round to posting on Tekken Zaibatsu and DOA Central but please feel free to post up on there if you wish.

Thinking that I am confused with ShinZ's achievement is a naive assumption.

Yes, I like Lan Di as highlighted in my avatar. I had it as my avatar for a very long time. Nintendo and old SEGA are my all time favourite games companies but I play and enjoy games on all systems.

Great points about VF3 demise. Note that what you said is only one factor of many.

Yes, comparing titles won't be relevant to everyone and you could be one of the people that fits in that demographic. However, I hope you enjoyed the documentary side as I would like to believe that people would watch the show, be entertained going back down memory lane, then feel compelled to go back and play those great games. Thankfully, that belief is a reality for I have received many emails and messages from people highlighting how they went back to enjoy the games they love (E.g. Unreal Tournament, Ridge Racer, etc).

 

I liked the video. The korean stepping info was also great. I'd love to see you do something like this for FS too. Very informative.

BTW I was sad you didn't come in 1st place in datona.

 

Very professional documentary!

Also note that Tekken's rise and Virtua Fighter's decline in the west can be indirectly related to the sales of the consoles. SEGA Saturn & DC sold poorly which limited Virtua Fighter's exposure. A sad snowball effect. By the time VF4 arrived on Sony's PS2, it was too late for the series.

 

I wanted to clarify yes, that I enjoyed the documentary portions for most part and special kudos for some very rare video footages you accrued. But I want to mention that the first thing that bothered me was that the video furthered the old and inaccurate stereotype that the VF series is too hard and technical to play. This is a stereotype that never helped the VF series and never will. I didn't mention it in my original post because it has been mentioned enough in VFDC and didn't feel like beating a dead horse.

But apparently this stereotype is still being spread around outside VFDC judging from your video and its responses. My apologies if I came off too harsh but wanted to at least explain a reason I was a little too bothered than I should have. Yet I must be honest in saying that's the reason I would NOT promote the video on any other site, although I can't stop other from doing so.

Regarding the demise of Dreamcast: Yes, it did play a big role in the demise of VF3, but the price of the VF3 arcade cabinet killed the chance of it ever succeeding in the arcades outside Japan FIRST. Korea and Taiwan still had a chance of having a thriving VF3 scene, only if VF3 cabinet was more affordable. Korea pretty much became the Republic of Tekken instead.

Speaking of the Korean step, in a way I think it considerably prolonged the life of VF3. ShinZ's techniques basically showed the world how to play VF3 like VF2, with crouch dash and low punch abuses--precisely the way VF3 was NOT intended to be played by its makers. When VF4 finally arrived they explicitly returned some, but obviously not all, of the VF2 features.

 

Tekken has always been a casual friendly fighting game, this is no secret.It's not that VF is hard, but Tekken is so much easier for casual players.I think that's where the stigma comes from.

 

While I risk beating another dead horse, let me honestly ask you:

"but tekken is so much easier for casual players" to do what?

is it so much easier for casual players to to win a tournament? (No) To do a combo? (No) To "beat" (heavy emphasis on the parentheses) the game? (I don't think VF is any harder to "beat" the game than Tekken.) To push buttons for punch and kick? To button mash? To have fun?

I could potentially agree with you on the last two points with some qualifiers. But, is button mashing in any fighting game actually fun for more than five minutes, when you can buy Ninja Gaiden 3 and button mash in that game instead? Have you actually tried to play Tekken against any real players, and ever felt that you just cannot get up again once you fall down in Tekken?

Are button mashers players? Do they even qualify as casual players? Do they ever become players? The questions along these lines been asked before and discussed before. I also have serious doubts on if the button mashers actually matter these days when information on how to play are so readily available online. If they go online trying to button mash they would get destroyed so fast in any game anyway.

PS. I think Lei Fei and Jean are more button masher friendly than the majority of the Tekken cast. But again I am unsure if that really matters these days.

 

I cant say for other countries, having just followed it from a dutch perspective. But with Virtua Fighter 4 on PS2 it was more popular then Tekken here, with it being the prime fighting game. Untill Soul Calibur 2 came around.. But it definately was more popular then Tekken and top dog (as said, till Soul Calibur 2).

It definately topped Tekken 4 here.

 

I am not at all surprised to hear that given Tekken 4 was almost universally disliked save some die hard Namco apologists. In fact at that time period I used to advocate that it was one chance (possibly the last) to bring Tekken players into VF. But well, it didn't happen.

VF4 had things going for it especially in relation to Tekken 4. Its relative arcade price was reduced compared to Tekken. Its console version was released to a major console. Its system has been retro-changed to please the old fart gamers from VF2. While those factors did indeed rekindle popularity in Japan it was not nearly enough. Sega did some right things but not nearly enough. About VF5--well, what can we say, given that even in Japan it lost to Tekken 6.

 

I started with VF4 so I'm p curious: Was VF3 just different, worse, or better than VF2 in terms of depth? What about k-step made it similar to VF2?

VF3's being too different and costly for arcade operators and customers seems like the biggest problem. That's the only explanation I'm aware of.

I mean, you look at the space of time between VF3 and VF4, and a lot of other great fighters came out, 2D and 3D. Including TTT. Is it really surprising that it lost traction on that alone?

 

I don't know if it's just me, but from a perspective of LOLOLOLOLOL IM MASHING PUNCH the virtua fighter series at least in the last entries has been more friendly than tekken where lots of times I get a bit lost

This is talking from the casual perspective, in the part where you fight a guy who knows the game, I can't tell which game is harder, maybe there is one more than other, but not to the point that will make me care about it

 

VF3 had his own specific cab and I remember the price was about $3500~$4000, and each play cost about $0.4 at that time. No surprise VF3 wasn't popular due to extremely expensive.

 

This is a very involved subject difficult to cover in a post or two. But first of all you bring a good point that there was a huge time gap between VF3 and VF4. But perhaps because it was because VF3 had issues and Sega had little idea on where to take the series. Yu Suzuki almost admitted on that regard (not knowing where to take the series).

In short though, VF3 was a very different game from VF2 in many regards, much more so than many people realize. It was not a worse game. It was much more of a mind game than VF2. But for some VF2 players just could not adjust well thus it was not a better game for them. Although Chibita is a good example of new blood who came to take their place.

Perhaps I will make another post later or some other old fart could take over.

 

I am pretty positive that you underestimate this. The figure I heard back then was closer to 15000. 3500-4000 was what you could pay much later just for the second hand board, not including the cabinet or the monitor. Arcades charging a dollar (US) a play to recoup their cost was not unheard of.

 

15k for an arcade cabinet is really insane

 

To be honest, I didn't know how to play VF3 until K-step arrival. Was it a mistake accidentally made by Yu Suzuki? I think he was the only one who knew the answer. However, if you dig deeper on those back-turned situation afterward, you probably would change your mind. All I can say Yu Suzuki is the man, and only God can step ahead of his idea.

Yes, VF3 is way difficult than any other series. It's not friendly for new comers to be enjoyable, or even try a little bit. No mention that the cabs were very rare to find as well.