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Virtua Fighter 5 - Version C Revisions

Discussion in 'Arcade' started by Pai_Garu, Jun 14, 2007.

  1. Pai_Garu

    Pai_Garu Well-Known Member

    Everyone say thanks to GodEater for providing the Arcadia articles. None of this would have happened without his effort.

    System Changes

    System Changes Pick Up

    The system overall has not received any dramatic change in Version C, but rather just some minor tweaks. This article will focus on the changes that most affect the gameplay.
    First of all, 0-frame throw safety window is now added to the escapee (evader) when an attack is evaded. What this means is that in certain situations, the escapee (evader) can no longer be 0-frame thrown by the opponent after a successful evade. However, since this safety window is rather short, if the frames is in an even situation for example, it is still possible to throw the opponent before he is able to crouch under it as if you were going for a 0-frame throw.

    Secondly, hit detect for a head towards face up down situation has been changed. The best example for this new change is Jacky’s [3][3][P][+][G] throw -> wall hit -> [4][K][+][G]. This sequence will no longer bounce the opponent as the same for other characters. This might rather big adjustment for characters that can easily bounce the opponent such as Jacky, Pai, Vanessa, and Lion.

    Lastly, while this doesn’t really affect the gameplay, catch throws will always come out as catch throws when executed facing the opponent. For example, there are rare situations where Lion’s [P][+][G] from Tourousoufuu Stance ([6][P][+][K][+][G]) comes out as a normal throw, but this is now fixed. Furthermore, interrupting this catch throw is now considered a counter hit.

    Overall Change Pick Up

    One of the change that affects all characters is the new changes to the camera angle. Examples such as Jacky’s [P][+][G], Aoi’s [4][P][+][K][+][G], and many other throws/reversal/throw escapes situations used to cause confusion in the character’s position and facing relative to the camera. This has been addressed in Version C to make it easier for the player to discern the correct input direction to further continue attacks.

    There have also been changes made to the down situation after certain throws. Some throws that were hard to recovery afterwards such as Lau’s [3][P][+][G] or Jeffry’s (on crouched opponent) [3][P][+][K][+][G], is now adjusted so it’s easier to recovery from downed attacks. This might be a welcoming change for heavy weight players, where it’s harder to struggle to avoid downed attacks. Conversely, Sarah’s [6][1][P][+][G] is now made much harder to recover for the opponent. Whereas before some characters could avoid the small downed attack with lightning struggling, the small downed attack is now guaranteed on all characters.

    This has been the bulk of the overall changes for Version C. Aside from these, there have been individual changes to all characters. Some characters such as Pai, Jeffry, and Lau have been adjusted dramatically to affect the way they are played. Refer to the individual character’s strategy articles to master the new changes.

    Dealing with Follow-up Attack

    In VF5, there is an abundant amount of moves with follow-up attacks. You must find yourself in a lot of situations where you are hesitant to attack due to the fear of the opponent’s possible follow-up attacks. We’ll take a look at a technique that will automatically avoid any possible follow-up attack while you apply attack pressure at the same time. The difficult of this technique is ultra difficult, but it can be said this technique is one of the essence of VF5 strategy.

    We’ll first look at using the fastest possible [6][6] or [3][3] input to cancel an evade into a throw called “evade cancel throw.” When you have guarded an attack that has a possible follow up, using this technique will allow you to evade any possible follow while aiming for a throw if the opponent decides to end the sequence there.

    Furthermore, the input of the cancel naturally spends enough frames to result in a 0-frame throw. Even at 5 frames of advantage, the throw cannot be avoided by crouching. Since this means that most mid attacks are not safe via fuzzy guarding, it can be said that this is a very powerful technique. Also, if you successfully evade the follow-up attack, the throw will come out in most cases, so it is possible to get guaranteed damage or apply the nitaku game.

    Even though this is a highly useful technique, the input command can be a quite complex. In order to cancel the evade at the fastest possible speed, you must have registered the second input of the dash before the evade animation begins (at the starting frames). You are ok as long as the lever is finished inputting (returned to neutral) at the end of the input buffer window. Since there is only a 12 frames window before the evade sequence begins, a rather fast command input is required.
    On top of that, the [P][+][G] command must be entered within 10 frames of the Evade animation. If you input the command after this window, it’s easy to whiff the throw after a successful evade, so you should try to finish the complete input by the first half of the Evade animation.

    The one thing you should be mindful when using this technique is your character’s throw distance. Some character such as Kage, Lion, or Brad has fairly short throw distance, so in certain instances such as after guarding Lau’s [6][P], it is possible to miss the throw completely even if you performed this technique perfectly.


    Character Specific

    Eileen

    Key Changes

    The first change to Eileen is her [P][P][6][P]. Whereas before all three hits will connect, it has now been changed so it’s possible to guard the last hit. However, it is still possible to perform various cancel or delay as before. This is not a problem for Eileen since you can substitute [P][K] as a guaranteed counter which also gives good attacking options.

    The next change has to do with [3][K]. The execution for this move has been adjusted, furthermore, it is now easier for the opponent to struggle out of the stagger to avoid being hit by [P].

    There have also been adjustments made to [4][6][K]. The execution speed seems to have been slowed just a bit, and it has lose its half circular property. Nothing has been changed about its sabaki properties nor the hip stagger it causes on hit, so it can still be used in much of the same way as before.

    Eileen has also received some useful power ups. [K] from Zenkuuhon ([2][3][6][P][+][K]) will now bounce the opponent on counter hit, making it possible to combo for more damage. It takes some work to do this well, but using this move right after [6][P][+][K] can be useful against opponent who tries to interrupt Eileen out of the flip, or against opponents who reacts slowly. Make sure to take advantage of the combo possibility when it hits.

    Other Changes

    Some of Eileen’s move has been made more counterable, example being [2][3][6][K]. Although nothing is guaranteed, it is now easier for the opponent to apply nitaku if it’s guarded. Even though you can still perform this move and connect all of its follow-up after [6][P][+][K] counter hits, it is now a bit more risky due to this change. You should remember to take defensive measures since it can be difficult to hit check for [6][P][+][K] counter hit.

    The last change concerns [9][P]. This is a bit of an unusual situation, but if this attack hits a back-turned jumping opponent, the resulting hit effect has been changed.

    Additional Note: Although [P][P][6][P] does not all connect normally, they will still all connect if the first hit hits a side-turned or a back-turned opponent, such as after [6][P][+][G][6].



    Lau

    Power Ups

    The biggest change to Lau in Version C is [K] from Kokei stance. On counter hit, this move now causes a slam on counter hit, making follow up combos possible. You can connect (OM towards opponent’s back) [2][P] -> [P][4][P][P] from there, thus making Kokei a much more threatening option. (Ed. Note: Much needed change for Lau’s Kokei)

    A less drastic change for Lau is the added advantage to [4][P][+][K][P] and [2][3][P][P] for both normal and counter hits. It’s not very often that these moves connect on counter, but the improvements made for normal hit is a huge plus for Lau’s offense.

    Other miscellaneous changes include [K][K] now being easier to connect. [6][P][+][K][+][G] is now a little slower when it hits, and a little faster when it guard breaks, making it easier to follow it up with [4][6][P] correctly.

    Weakened Points

    The notorious [7][K] has been weakened so it’s [P] counterable on block. However, it is still dependent on distance, so Lau players should try to connect this move at max range from now on.
    Disadvantage on block for [8][K] is now increased just a bit. It’s still not counterable, but Lau can no longer fuzzy guard afterwards. Nothing is changed concerning its evasive property, so it is still as usable as ever.

    It is now also easier for the opponent to avoid a small downed attack after [3][P][+][G].

    Additional Note: The angle after [4][2][P][+][G] has been adjusted to make it easier for the players to see the character’s orientation. This might make input miss less likely.


    Pai

    Changes to Main Strike Attacks

    The biggest change for Pai is that [P][K] now leaves her in disadvantage on normal hit. Fortunately, everything stayed the same if you enter Bokutai stance, so it might be something you should try to do in most cases.

    Another change concerns [7][K]. The disadvantage on block has been increased, and recovery frames have been increased as well, so it is [P] counterable on block. Since it can be hard to connect [P] if this move is blocked at maximum range, you should adjust accordingly.

    The recovery frame for [2][6][P] has also been increased. Furthermore, the startup frames have been adjusted so this move will not be able to beat [2][P] or mid attacks anymore.

    Big adjustments have been made to the staggers caused by [3][K] and (while rising) [K]. The first move is now made slower on hit, so it’s much easier to struggle out of the seemingly guaranteed [P]. Recovery is also longer if this move is evaded. The latter move does not cause stagger anymore on hit, but knocks down instead. You might try using this move when close to the wall now since it will cause a wall hit.

    [4][6][P][+][K] will now cause stomach crumple in minor counter even if it’s not charged. Also, [9][K] now has better hit detection against low attacks, and [2][K][+][G] now has shorter active frames.

    Changes to Throws

    There have been many changes to Pai’s throw game. The biggest change of which is [2][6][P][+][G]. The damage has been decreased by 5 pts, and it is now easier for the opponent to tech-roll afterwards. This means that damage wise, if the opponent tech-rolls, this throw is weaker than her [6][6][P][+][G], but due to the downed position of the opponent, there is a better potential for more attacking pressure. Mix up between these two throws depending on the life and ring position of the opponent.

    Regarding [4][2][P][+][G], the issue with landing standing [P] on certain characters without struggling has been fixed. This throw now requires some degree of guessing to get guaranteed damage from it.

    Throws that used to be easy to get additional damage such as [6][3][2][1][4][P][+][G] and [2][P][+][K][+][G] is now adjusted so the recovery time for the opponent is much shorter. Aside from not being able to get easy damage from the opponent, Pai can no longer use the [3][P][K] (max charge) set up.

    Additional Note: Since the disadvantage is small after [P][K], you can still beat elbow class attacks with standing [P]. If you can cause a stomach crumple with [4][6][P][+][K], you can connect this combo on lightweights. (delay) [2][P] -> [2][6][P] -> [9][K][K].


    Jeffry

    Main Offense Changes Check

    There have been a lot of changes for Jeffry, but we will focus on some of the key changes to his strike game.

    First we’ll talk about his [P] and [6][P], which you can now use in combos for slam hits. In the previous version, it was difficult to refloat the opponent, especially in situations where the opponent is knocked too far way for the [P] to make contact. In this new version, [6][P] has been improved so it’s easier to incorporate in slam hit combos, a welcoming change for Jeffry players.

    Next we’ll look at the changes made to [6][6][P][P]. The recovery for when the second part of this sequence hits a crouching opponent has been decreased slightly. Since this makes it easier for Jeffry to avoid the nitaku game, this is move is now a more useful and less risky offensive option at mid range.

    The biggest change for Jeffry, however, can be said to be [4][6][P][+][K], which causes a combo’able slam hit even on normal hit. The recovery for this move has been decreased, so nothing is guaranteed on block anymore. For this reason, it’s possible to use this move directly at mid range to take damage.

    Other Changes

    We’ll now talk about some other changes that took place.
    [3][P][P]: The two hits will now connect even if the second hit is delayed.
    [4][P][+][K], [4][P][+][K][K]: The hit stun has been adjusted so advantage after hit has effectively been increased.
    [4][3][P][+][K]: The execution speed has been sped up slightly. Since you can begin moving quicker than before, it’s now easier to connect various air combos after this move.

    Additional Note: After [3][P][+][K][+][G], it’s easier for the opponent to recovery from Jeffry’s downed attack. Air throw damage has been increased from 20 to 25 as well.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2024
  2. SweepTheLeg

    SweepTheLeg Well-Known Member

    Re: Virtua Fight 5 - Version C Revisions

    Awesome, appreciate the update Srider.
     
  3. DarkGift

    DarkGift Well-Known Member

    Re: Virtua Fight 5 - Version C Revisions

    Thanks Srider
     
  4. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Re: Virtua Fight 5 - Version C Revisions

    Thanks a lot Srider!

    Damn... I can get MC'd out of Lion's TRSF Catch Throw now.... This is gonna hurt... That said, I have received the normal throw instead of catch throw in weird situations so it's definitely a plus that they've tweaked that. Furthermore, it's not like I'm spamming TRSF Catch Throw much (but I've been landing it on everyone a lot).

    Camera Angle tweaks will be nice.

    Hope the hit-detect change won't affect my Lion too much. Then again, I don't do those sorts of combos much outside of crumple. I'm not exactly destroying people at the wall properly yet (it's on my to do list).

    The 0-frame throw safety window for an evading opponent is going to be interesting. Just when I was getting used to some situations where you block certain attacks, P(G) --> Throw because you know opponent will dodge the P(G).... But I guess evading had already faced its fair share of nerfs so this is minor compensation?

    Looking forward to reading the Jeffry and Lau changes ^_^

    And again, big thanks!

    -Chanchai
     
  5. SweepTheLeg

    SweepTheLeg Well-Known Member

    Re: Virtua Fight 5 - Version C Revisions

    Will we most likely have to wait for an Evo style update in '08 to experience these changes?
     
  6. Pai_Garu

    Pai_Garu Well-Known Member

    Re: Virtua Fight 5 - Version C Revisions

    Post updated with Evade Cancel Strategy.

    This is the technique that Chanchai posted about from earlier. It is explained fully now on how to perform this technique along with applications of it. This is a more complicated version of what Chanchai posted which I also talked about briefly in my reply to that thread.
     
  7. GodEater

    GodEater Well-Known Member

    Re: Virtua Fight 5 - Version C Revisions

    Just in case anyone is wondering the source for these changes is Arcadia.

    Thanks for the updates, Srider.

    GE
     
  8. Pai_Garu

    Pai_Garu Well-Known Member

    Re: Virtua Fight 5 - Version C Revisions

    Eileen, Lau added.
     
  9. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Re: Virtua Fight 5 - Version C Revisions

    Thanks, Godeater!

    Sorry about the Gamest stuff... it'll be found... eventually... *cough*

    But let's get back to talking about Version C stuff :p
     
  10. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    Re: Virtua Fight 5 - Version C Revisions

    Thanks GodEater and Srider! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
     
  11. KiwE

    KiwE Well-Known Member

    Re: Virtua Fight 5 - Version C Revisions

    Thanks GE and Srider. Keep'em coming.
     
  12. GodEater

    GodEater Well-Known Member

    Re: Virtua Fight 5 - Version C Revisions

    I did the really easy part - Srider's in charge of everything that actually entails work. Great job, Srider.

    GE
     
  13. J6Commander

    J6Commander Well-Known Member

    Re: Virtua Fight 5 - Version C Revisions

    Thanks for the update guys!
     
  14. KristianTNA

    KristianTNA Active Member

    Re: Virtua Fight 5 - Version C Revisions

    Much appreciated for the information,
    Have to admit of VF5 as much as love playing as everyone I like the ways of Wolf and catching the punishing throws, in the receiving end of beat down moving on the floor as the follow up comes is just insanely tight and grossly unfair in some cases (Eileen Shooting Star Stomp Up+P a prime example) so glad they've sorted that out.
     
  15. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Re: Virtua Fight 5 - Version C Revisions

    Thanks Srider, looking forward to hearing about Jeffry!
     
  16. Sebo

    Sebo Well-Known Member Content Manager Taka Content Manager Jeffry

    PSN:
    Sebopants
    Re: Virtua Fight 5 - Version C Revisions

    So they cured her AIDS as she is no longer a cheap whore?
     
  17. 420Gamer4Life

    420Gamer4Life Well-Known Member

    Re: Virtua Fight 5 - Version C Revisions

    thanks GE and Srider. alot of us wouldnt know this information if it wasnt for you two. the only thing that sucks though is alot of us wont even be able to experience revision c since we dont live in japan. im also pretty sure sega wont release an update either for the PS3 or 360 versions of VF5.
     
  18. Pai_Garu

    Pai_Garu Well-Known Member

    Re: Virtua Fight 5 - Version C Revisions

    Jeffry Added.
     
  19. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Re: Virtua Fight 5 - Version C Revisions

    Wow...nice changes for Jeffry!!
     
  20. Sebo

    Sebo Well-Known Member Content Manager Taka Content Manager Jeffry

    PSN:
    Sebopants
    Re: Virtua Fight 5 - Version C Revisions

    Understatement!

    If we had access to Ver. C, I'd be compelled to play the boring fuck again.
     

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