Virtua Fighter is a Martial Art

Over time there have been many discussions on this forum about how realistic the fighting styles are in VF, and whether VF is a martial arts simulator, or just an arcade fighting game featuring martial art types with names of martial arts fighting styles but no real connection to actual martial arts. There are certainly interview accounts and some from Yu Suzuki hmself that detail how he and some developers went to China to study movements of real martial artists.

But after several versions of VF starting with VF4 and many thousands of matches, (Single Player, Vs mode, and Online) and watching hundreds of VF vids, and interacting with the good folks on VFDC for years, I've come to another conclusion perhaps not unique. Virtua Fighter is a martial art in its own right. Take the Wikipedia entry for martial art:

"Martial arts are codified systems and traditions of combat practices, which are practiced for a variety of reasons: self-defense, competition, physical health and fitness, entertainment, as well as mental, physical, and spiritual development."

Virtua Fighter intersects with this definition in several places:

codified systems and traditions of combat practices
practiced for competition
practiced for entertainment
practiced for mental, spritual development (at least by some VFers including myself

Over time this is becoming clearer to me, that its not about how well VF imitates, or duplicates some other martial art, its about the quality of VF as its own martial art form.

And those of us of practice it are in fact VF martial artists and practitioners. Now of course this raises the question of whether Street Fighter, or Mortal Kombat, or Dead or Alive are forms of martial arts in their own right, and I would have to say they are. Now the argument between them would be similar to how does Karate compare to Judo, or Jeet Kundo? How does the martial art of VF compare to the martial art of Tekken? or the martial art of Street Fighter? And obviously there are some who prefer Judo or Karate, or Kempo over Kung fu etc. In this case I prefer the martial art of VF over the rest because
as a martial art, it is imo superior.

The final question is how long does one practice a martial art? On this point I think a true VFer is a Vfer for life..........

 

i agree.

And 10,000 hours is the rule for mastery... however you have to do the right type of practice: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/08/success-book_n_4059506.html

 

Your own arguments proves this to be idiotic babbling as VF is not MARTIAL ART any more that art of cooking or art of cleaning floors with wet mop, which both can be your arguments applied upon much more easier and that both fits your martial art definition much closely that VF.

Sorry, I really am not into the shit of proving how VF (or any other showbiz title) is much more that it actually is and how everyone should worship it.

 

This is about as stupid as games being a sport, which they aren't.

 

Ahh yes, Unicorn and Yomi the usual suspects both of you are at least predictable if nothing else.

Are you guys arguing against a basic definition of "martial arts"

"Martial arts are codified systems and traditions of combat practices, which are practiced for a variety of reasons: self-defense, competition, physical health and fitness, entertainment, as well as mental, physical, and spiritual development."

if you want to attack this basic definition of Martial arts (from Wikipedia so its no big deal) (and VF would qualify under this definition) that's fine, you can post another definition of martial arts which might exclude VF, but the Wikipedia definition does not exclude VF. Certainly Unicorn and YOMI you can read English right? You are entitled to attack Wikipedia content its often wrong. Do you feel the Wikipedia definition is incorrect in some way? If you would like to really attack my argument that VF is a martial art in its own right then you have to intelligently address my initial premise which is the basic definition of a martial art.

Once again, you two resort to name calling, with absolutely no support for your arguments beyond your own simple opinions. I at least began my argument with a basic definition albeit from Wikipedia, it is a basic definition and does form the basis for my argument.

@YOMI, @Unicorn if you don't have anything useful to post, then don't post If you disagree with the Wikipedia definition for Martial Art, then lets start your debate with that and why the definition that you have chosen is better or more accurate or more commonly accepted than the Wikipedia definition.

But clearly, if you can read and understand basic English, The Wikipedia definition of Martial Art does include the entire Virtua Fighter series

 

I do not attack the definition you posted, I "attack" the way you decide to explain it in such way it will fit to VF, which is obviously NOT ment to fit in.

Using your logic... Cooking is CODIFIED SYSTEM with LONG TRADITION ment to FIGHT hunger in our stomaches and is practicied for various reasons: SELF-DEFENCE from starving and death, COMPETITION on fucking a lot of cooking competitions, PHYSICAL HEALTH is lately important in cooking a lot, and MENTAL, PHYSICAL AND SPIRITUAL DEVELOPTMENT? Oh man, just read any culinary book or any study about food, cooking and health!
...
You see? It FITS fucking PERFECTLY! Yet... it is celar it is NOT ment to fit on it. It fits there because I bend the logic just as you did; I only picked up obviously trolly subject where you are trying to pretend you are fully serious.
And do not let me to start with applying this definition on clearing dirty floor with wet mop, which fits great to the definition as well!!!

What you are doing here is applying aristotelian logic. It is defined by simple example:
Premise 1: Aristoteles have whiskers
Premise 2: Cat have whiskers.
Conclusion: Aristoteles is a cat.

As long as you will pretend that Aristoteles is a cat, you may also pretend VF is a martial art. Because clearly, if you can read and understand basic English, the aristotelian logic definition clearly proves Aristotels is a cat.

So do you, so do you

Oh and I should also use colors to prove my point, because colors make you look so righteous and great!

 

First:
http://www.amazon.com/Of-Cooks-Kung-Chia-Kai/dp/B0002ZDWUS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cwyG8krXyU

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_Fu_Chefs

@Unicorn you should have taken a course or two beyond philosophy or logic 101. The fact that VF or (cooking for that matter) fits the Wikipedia definition of Martial arts is not my problem. A good definition should exclude what does not fit, that's what definitions do!
The fact that VF or (cooking for that matter) can be understood relative to the Wikipedia definition of Martial arts says something about what the author of that definition has accomplished.

If you really want to talk about using cooking as a Martial art, you would only have to look through history and realize that assassination through food and the way it was prepared was often used with deadly precision like some martial arts

@Unicorn you chose a very poor counter example to my argument, because there are obvious (as I posted in my reply) countless pop culture references to Kung Fu cooks and kung fu cooking readily available to quiet your philosophy 101 attack on my argument.

Do you know any other forms of logical argument beyond the syllogism (which I didn't use btw)? It is not likely that you could sustain the argument you are attempting to make without ultimately looking uninformed. Perhaps you should cut your losses before you dig yourself into a hole that your introductory philosophy class can't get you out of

 

I would have to agree that it is a stretch to call VF a martial art, however I would say that it is more comparable to the game; weiqi (go). The mental skills required to be a good martial artist are the same as those required for weiqi.

I do like @Unicorn 's analogy with cooking as it is said you can have good 功夫 (kung fu) in cooking or anything for that matter.

We'll use wiki again:
Kung fu/Kungfu or Gung fu/Gongfu (i/ˌkʌŋˈfuː/ or /ˌkʊŋˈfuː/; 功夫, Pinyin: gōngfu) is a Chinese term referring to any study, learning, or practice that requires patience, energy, and time to complete, often used in the West to refer to Chinese martial arts.

Just for fun- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6DYOXkdwp4

 

The points that are missing from VF are combat practices and physical development, according to wiki's definition.

Again I think it is a stretch to say that there is physical development because you are manipulating a controller.

 

Putting shit into golden can will not change the fact it is still a stinky merd. Same it is with your 'arguments' and you 'classy attacks' on people who dare to disagree with you.
You may speak highly about yourself and your knowledge, yet no matter how hard you are trying, the shit of yours is still stinky.

Now please bless me with more of wall-of-the-text argumentation how great your case is and how much VF is an martial art used to defend yourself and to develop your health and physics, how it make you more fit and more healthy, how spiritually are you developed thanks to it and how traditional it is in its forms. I do not care anymore, my hands are stinky too much to my liking already from that shit-in-golden-can of yours.

VF is but a game made for fun and it is as much martial art as FIFA 2014, Diablo 3, Dark Souls 2, Pokémon Leafgrean or Chessmaster 2000 is.

Have a nice day, you gamepad martial artist!

Oh and of course I can not miss opportunity to use one of that beloved GIFs of mine

 

Very good points Hui_Xiu!!! I liked the vids also and yes you can have a gongfu of cooking. That point is lost on Unicorn

Just curious, would you consider VF as a form or virtual combat? here is the wiki:

"Combat or fighting is a purposeful violent conflict meant to weaken, establish dominance over, or kill the opposition, or to drive the opposition away from a location where it is not wanted or needed."

I agree "violent conflict" would be a stretch for VF, but "dominance over" is not a stretch for VF. Reasonable ppl could agree or disagree about whether VF is a form of quasi combat or not.

about physical development:

I don't use a controller much for VF these days, I have switched to a stick, and the speed, and dexterity required to play hours and hours of VF is considerable (at least for me it is).
So I would say that playing hundreds maybe thousands of hours of VF at intermediate to advanced levels does require physical development beyond a person who does not engage in this type of activity. The muscles in my hands and lower forearms(Flexor Digitorun Superficialis) are definitely affected by my VF practice and game play.

 

@Unicorn

ROFLMAO, all these years and you are still same-ole, same-ole. You do realize that those who don't have a valid argument or who can't support their weak argument often resort to name calling, profanity,diversion and poor analogies which you just happen to do better than anyone else on VFDC.

Of course engaging in intermediate to advanced levels in Virtua Fighter is a form of martial art in its own right by definition. You really didn't mount any legitimate counter argument. In case you didn't know, Using terms like 'idiotic' or phrases like 'the shit of yours still stinks' doesn't count as argument refutation

In some respects maybe VF is not a martial art for you. I seem to remember playing you a few times (I believe you won all the matches) but I do recall you using your character as a 'blunt instrument' no particular style, or no finesse and no martial art! From what I remember your VF fighting style was kind-a rude, cave-man-like arcade game play (advanced yes but slow-witted at the same time). Ah yes, you do refer to yourself as "the drop kick mashter" LOL that fits you, brash, no manners, and no respect for your elders, uncouth Virtua Fighter brute force arcade gamer with a tinge of troll about your mouth. Yea, I guess for you VF has nothing to do with a martial art

But fear not my knuckle dragging friend, you still have my respect as a great VF champion!!!!

 

I too, feel the burn in my Flexor Digitorun Superficialis after particularly long bouts of VFing.

 

I like it how you try to make VF into a martial art and apparently yourself some kind of virtuafighterka at the same time, yet every so often I see some posts from you trying to bunk players who aim for competition(1) and use their brains to figure out game systems and memorize frames and match-ups (2, mental, kinda. Does take patience, study and determination to get to the bottom of) to enjoy the best matches with people of like mind (3, test of skills but also a lot of metagame).

Kind of ironic.

Oh, and I agree with posts made against this thread.

 

Marly LOL my man.... , I think I know what you mean... but did you look over your post.
In your post I found the phrase:

"There is nothing 'Martial' about fighting games"

rly? a game about fighting has nothing to do with 'Martial'. Nothing? Notwithstanding the denotation of the word 'Martial' which in its most strict interpretation insinuates intersections with war, you would have to agree that the connotation of the word 'Martial' at least has something to do with fighting right? I mean even if there is some problem with the word games we can agree that the word 'fighting' and the word 'Martial' are related
in some way right?

You ever run across the phrase 'war games' I'm just sayin.. LOL

So @Marly, @Unicorn, and @YOMI you don't see any connection between a hard fought VF tournament and a real life martial arts tournament? No connections? I find that fascinating totally.

What differentiates a fighting game from a racing game, or sports game, or puzzle? In the case of VF is it not the fact that the subject matter of the game is hand to hand combat? So how is it possible that:

"There is nothing 'Martial' about fighting games"

Maybe the problem here is our definition for the words 'Martial' and 'Arts' , and the definition we have in our heads when we put the words 'Martial arts' into one phrase. As my original post started out. I used the wikipedia definition:

"Martial arts are codified systems and traditions of combat practices, which are practiced for a variety of reasons: self-defense, competition, physical health and fitness, entertainment, as well as mental, physical, and spiritual development."

Now in that definition here is where VF fits:

VF is a codified system and tradition of "simulated or video game" combat practices.
VF is practiced for a variety of reasons including competition, entertainment,
Some in the VF community including myself use VF four aspects of spiritual development.



granted VF is not typically used for self defense or to accomplish physical fitness so there are some holes in my original statement. But to be really knit picky there is a degree of physical fitness of certain hand and forearm muscles that is accomplished by high engagement in Virtua Fighter. And in my early years of VF I hung out with a group that would settle some minor real world disputes over a game of VF (no joke).

To me, cats like Oshu Akira, Bunbun Maru, Chibita, Kyaso, Itazan, Heruru, Homestay definitely were able to show the martial art in a Virtua Fighter match.

There is a difference between that level of play and noobs and casual players. And maybe that's were the confusion is. I am not saying that simply by picking up a controller from time to time and playing Virtua Fighter that you are a Virtua Fighter martial artist. No more than going to a Judo or Karate class once or twice, or taking a single Kungfu lesson makes you a martial artist. In my original posts I talked about thousands of matches and studying hundreds of vids and practicing and playing thousands of hours in this context Virtua Fighter is martial art in its own right (at least according to the wikipedia definition).

@MarlyJay I am currently training in Kendo 3 times a month (for about 16 years now), along with private Kung Fu instruction(for me and my wife). If the argument I presented was generally demeaning to all of martial arts I would not have presented it.

@MarlyJay, @Unicorn,@YOMI pick another fight, you can't win this one, there are too many definitions and too much empirical evidence on my side...

 

I wish there was a martial art with a technique which when used would make you stop posting.

 

Hate to disagree with you @masterpo, but I can see calling VF a martial art disparaging those who train seriously. Taking a punch, getting kicked, being thrown to the ground, being choked, etc... is very different from losing a game. I'll go back to my original analogy of Weiqi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_(game)

"There is significant strategy and philosophy involved in the game, and the number of possible games is vast (10761 compared, for example, to the 10120 possible in chess), despite its relatively simple rules."

"In formal game theory terms, Go is a non-chance, combinatorial game with perfect information. ; the underlying math is combinatorial; and all moves (via single vertex analysis) are visible to both players. "

There is much more, and I am no means an expert on the game, but I think the comparison is accurate.

 

There are a few, you just haven't learned them yet....

 

@Hui_Xiu with much respect my friend, I agree with you, and I'm not saying that Virtua Fighter is equal to real life hand-to-hand or weapons based martial arts like MMA, Karate, TaeKwonDo,Savate, or Kendo. That would be a mistake on my part. However, I am saying that Virtua Fighter is its own kind of Martial art. It is a Quasi Martial Art, it is a Virtual Martial Art. It is a Digital Martial Art Especially when you line it up against the Wikipedia definition. It is a new category of martial art. Take some time to think about it.


Obviously Virtua Fighter series is a game (by definition) but when played at high levels and thousands of hours, it rises to the level of a martial art (according to at least one definition of 'martial art' )

There are guys on VFDC that want to disagree with me simply because I am masterpo and it wouldn't matter what I posted they would disagree. YOMI,Marly, and Unicorn fall into that category. I think they have something against monks, or at the very least something against the lastmonk