Adaptive Vanessa

Hey, just wondering what you people do to force your opponent to play your game, instead of being forced to play theirs. If you don't know what I'm saying, it's like this:

1. You do what your opponent wants you to do OR
2. You make your opponent dance to your beat.

This is to discuss what you'd do to your foe and what nasty setups you've discovered. In my attempt to find that gigantic Crumple Stun setup with Akira, I've used Vanessa as my sub and have found this setup for a NICE side-turned scenario, from OS...

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif//forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif

Overall, this move is relatively safe in terms of retaliation if the opponent blocks the lunging straight punch in comparison to Akira's Bodycheck sideturned setup.

If the charging knee hits, the turning roundhouse followup should be guarunteed and from there, you've got the lunging midpunch / throw mixup possibilities.

When you do hit that lunging punch, I believe it's a crumple stun on normal hit. [I don't see my foe's moves getting interrupted when I do hit with it so I'm just assuming this]

What do you do to maximize side crumple damage with Vanessa? In OS stance, I find /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif to hurt a chunk. Are there better universal sidecrumple juggles to use?

 

Sorry, that combo is in no way guaranteed. It will only work against punch happy opponents (used to work against LOW punch happy opponents in version B but they changed it from special to plain old high).

 

lol insight

 

What Sebo said about sideturned situations.

Allow me to try and elaborate on why Sebo's suggestion is better than trying to score a side crumple with : due to damage scaling in a combo, you'll get less overall damage after a side crumple.

Nevertheless, if you manage to get a side crumple from OS you have two options. You can either go for something flashy involving a + bounce, like + or even + or, if you are like me and don't have very dextrous fingers, go for the bread and butter . Bear in mind that sometimes, depending on foot position the last hit will whiff.

I think that's what's recommended if you get a side crumple from OS. I don't remember anything flashy from DS, just plain old .

By the way, in case any one has been reading my posts, that's the reason i was asking about OM - certainly it nets you a side crumple but the followups i know are less damaging than a simple string after the evade. Now if you add being -12 on block and an extremely poor range you can understand why i'm wodering about its usefulness. I don't have qualms over DS OM , it has great range, comparable to bone crush middle (it looks nice too, same as the last kick from her OS punch string) but with the OS OM one i've found myself whiffing. I'd really appreciate some insight about that; any suggestions or more damaging side crumple floats i'm not aware of that make it worthwhile?

 

im tryin to find good places to use the 4 3 p+k, getting a side crumple might not happen often enough for me but at least ive got a good place to try that punch..

plus i love the OS p k p combo too, so double cool pts for the tip!

 

lol

 

There are many good uses for OS /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif

If you face someone who's good at doing evading throw escapes, try using this move from backdash (input it as /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif ), this will automatically delay the attack to beat evades and it will also whiff punish if they try to /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif out of the situation. Due to the tech crouching properties of the move it may also beat out opponents who abare with high moves, even though you may not have the textbook advantage to beat it.

This move also for some magical reason won't clash with throws until you're at -8. Which means you can always beat out throws coming after your opponent hit a /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, even on counterhit.

Also, try to learn to check foot position when doing combos from this move. Finish with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif when the move was executed in closed stance and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif when in open stance. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif also works on Pai, Eileen, Aoi and Akira (!) in either stance(!!). There are no real workable combos for heavyweights that I've been able to come up with. Learning to check foot position will make this move much more usable, plus that it's a relatively easy move to check foot position with.


Also, for sidecrumbles: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is a simple, consistent (I've never seen it NOT working) yet damaging finisher. It also looks cool /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Using OM /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif with Vanessa is not something I'd generally recommend as I've found Vanessa's OM to be one of the most ineffective in the game (yes, OM is character dependent) and her OM /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif has the worst range of any character. Use OM /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif

 

definitely gonna try to use the backdash version to catch evaders.. i love the whiff punishment tip too..

edit - dunno what i was thinkin.. good catch E

as for side crumples, im still workin on that one..

 

Discovered this while playing offline and in training mode to be sure. Side turned /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif will only side crumple on CH... WAAAHHH!!!! [teary eyed]

Does Vanessa have ANY move [I'm at work now so I can't test it lol] that can cause side crumple on normal hit that's fast enough to not get interrupted in side-turned situation?

DS doesn't have any move that results in your foe side-turned so now I'm at a loss somewhat... I know she can win without strange gimmicks like this but I like some gimmicks... Just a handful here or there... ^_^

Bounce Juggle combos do awesome damage in my opinion from the one's I've seen with Sarah, Akira, and Vanessa but I can't find a non-CH juggle with Vanessa that allows her /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif bounce... Ah, the adaptive studies of characters... ^_^

 

lol

 

OS BT +

Usually happens after you jump/run over a downed opponent's body. Nobody is going to fall twice for that though, so make it count

 

Yes Sebo, I want a broken move exactly like Akira's bodycheck that is perfectly blockable though very hard to interrupt in a side-turned situation. And yes, I'd like a TFT with fries please ^_^

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif doesn't work well for me online or offline unless I have my foe backed into a corner and they're getting up off the floor. Good reminders though.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif into /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif_/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is good, but aside from Bone Crush Middle CH, is there any more?

I just had a VERY LONG fight vs. a Quest Mode Vanessa last night [now playing on Expert difficulty]. She ranked me down 2X. I forgot her name, and yes I'm persistent, but from what I've analyzed, aside from the cpu simply reading my Akira perfectly, all of her 'on advantage when blocked' stance changing moves can be EXTREMELY abusive and are nigh impossible to fight against short of proper ducking / evading, which is hard at times. CURSES*! [Glad she's my sub since I want an infinite pressure Vanessa myself]

Final question, what have you people discovered are her best crumples and how do you apply them? MC? CH? Normal hit? etc.

 

Yes, well, don't bother evading cause switch back blow is semicircular. So, unless you're an expert on foot positioning, just duck proceed with the followup of your choice.

You can't be referring to switch knee lift cause that's -2 on hit.

 

lol

 

Ah yes, a strong oki shall be what I focus on next.

Placing your opponent in a tough situation seems harder for Vanessa but breaking out of a bad situation seems to be her Modus Operandi.

Winning by breaking your opponent's attempts to put you in a bad situation repeatedly sounds frustrating [to your foes] and definitely sounds satisfying to me... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

What should Vanessa do outside Oki and arena posititioning to place enemies in bad setups? I've spoken of side-turned, back turned, etc.

Perhaps her DS /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif can lead to some fun times... *recheck*

 

What about OS /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif ? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
Oh Sebo, you're getting old /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif
Foot crumple on normal. I found it good against techrollers who don't evade after getting up. I sometimes use it after backdash. Finish with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

DS
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif CH, face crumple, proceed the same as with other DS f.cr. I haven't found any good ways to cause crumple with this except for the situation in which the first hit is a wall hit.

OS
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif CH a great move that has already been discussed in a different thread. Causes head crumple. Bounce combo possible.
(while standing)/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, causes chest(?) crumple on CH. Use after crouch dashing, and mix with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif also after dashing /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

Any hit EXCEPT when the opponent crouch guards -- it then gives a crouch guard stagger.

What's nice about that throw is that it gives a wall stagger if there's a wall behind you. A really flashy followup is because if it hits a staggered opponent it will make them float, sometimes sending them over low fences too. Continue with or + + ; pounce. Notice that takes 18 frames to come out so if your opponent can unstruggle fast he might recover in time to block it. Also it might sometimes whiff if you used + from really far away.

If you're feeling more conservative you might want to go for the standard ; pounce instead then. Check before pouncing though, you might get a side crumple if you're in the right angle

I think it's called a chin crumple. Followup with + ! + . HUGE damage from such a safe mid but will not work on Pai, Lion, Shun, El Blaze, Eileen (maybe whiffs on other characters too, that's as far as i tested).

Universal followup + + , less damage, leaves you at a small advantage to continue pressuring.

If there's a wall directly behind your opponent try + for teh lols

 

I didn't list everything, because the answers are on the command list: a highly accessible resource that is just a click away. I just listed ones off the top of my head while doing my best to conceal my absolute disgust for humanity.
----

insight removed, lol

 

Does anybody know what i should do after i CH wolf with OS ? I can't find a consistent float

 

Try /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif

It's the only thing I've found so far that actually hits Jeff consistently, ducking or not. I believe in closed stance /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif [P /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif worked on Jeff, but it was inconsistent, and the timing seemed really tight.