Staggers and Stagger Recovery - Comprehensive Look (WIP)

Last Updated: December 27, 2024

Overview
If you are having trouble with recovering from staggers or are just interested on how staggers and stagger recovery works, this thread is intended for you!

Work in progress thread to summarize staggers and stagger recovery. Video analysis will be posted gradually. Thought it would be good to freshen up on what is known and what I have also discovered. Which after starting to look into more deeply, it's quite convoluted.

Specifically looking at VF5US 2.0 / R.E.V.O. Eileen's normal hit stagger. Whether or not this move's properties will change, I think it would be beneficial to use this move to show properties of staggers and stagger recovery. For those that don't know, there have been some debate on the stagger property of this move. It can be repeatedly use to keep the opponent staggered (if your opponent do not stagger recover in time).

Stagger Recovery Sources

• Hit Effects: Stagger section in VFDC Wiki - Link (VFDC)
• Recovering from a Stagger by Myke - Link (VFDC)
• Programmable inputs / Esoteric frame data Q&A by KoD - Link (VFDC)
• DIY Frame Analysis by G0d3L- Link (VFDC)
• Recover the stagger as fast as you can! by Granpa Ohzeki - Link (YouTube)
• VF5FS Masters Guide Hit Effect & Condition (Page 20)

Stagger Recovery Basics (WIP)

• Stagger recovery input recognized during the Red Stick Icon (To Do List - Video).
• Each successful Stagger recovery input removes 3 frames of stagger. (To Do List - Video)
• single direction press - 1 recovery input (To Do List - Video). Removal of 3 frames of stagger is accomplished at the same frame of direction input (To Do List - Video)
  • Cardinal Direction into adjacent Diagonal Direction (example ) - 2 recovery inputs
  • Diagonal Direction into adjacent Cardinal Direction (example ) - 1 recovery input
• single button press - 1 recovery input (To Do List - Video). Removal of 3 frames of stagger is accomplished at the next frame after button input. (To Do List - Video)
  • Simultaneous button press - (To Do List - Video)
    • If 0-1 frame separates two buttons being pressed together, then it is considered a simultaneous button press - 1 recovery input
    • If 2 or more frame separates two buttons being pressed together, it is not considered a simultaneous button press - 2 recovery inputs
• Direction and button input simultaneously - 2 recovery inputs. Direction input removes 3 frames of stagger on the same frame the direction input was recognized. The button input removes 3 frames of stagger on the next frame. (To Do List -Video)
  • If button is pressed 1 frame earlier than the direction, then only 1 recovery input is recognized.

My Current Analysis/Testing Notes
These are working models, still testing. To Do List - Video starting point to show the stagger frame properties (green / red) using Eileen's attack.

After Eileen's normal hits to stagger you, to successfully block a follow-up you need to get at least 9 successful "stagger recovery inputs" within a 20 frame input window (start on 1st frame of the red joystick icon). (To Do List - Video showing successful and not successful recovery inputs)

• The stagger in the Red Stick icon portion is ~46f. Fastest timing of will make contact on frame 21 of the Red Stick icon. So you need to remove >25 Stagger Frames (SF) to block
• 1 Stagger Recovery Input (SRI) removes 3 Stagger Frames (SF)
• So to remove more than 25 SF, 9 SRI (removes 27 SF) is needed.

After Eileen's normal hits to stagger you, to successfully block a follow-up , you need to get at least 10 successful "stagger recovery inputs" within a 18 frame input window (start on 1st frame of the red joystick icon). (To Do List - Video showing successful and not successful recovery inputs)

• If stagger recover in time, does not make contact at frame 15 (relative to 3P execution), but at frame 16.

 

Yes, I did read your post in Myke's 2020 thread. Thanks.

 

Ah ok, what I wrote there was meant more of a note for myself to write that section better! The first post is still very much like a first draft made public with all its rough edges /notes.

 

I believe mashing to stagger recover is very inefficient. I can mash 9 or more inputs on one attempt and successfully recover in time to block. In the next attempt, I can mash 9 or more inputs and not successfully recover in time to block. Mashing is a term we used when we don't know better; and the more time I learned about stagger recovery, it reminds me of the multiple throw escape system.

 

Updated the first post "Sources' and "Recovery Basics" section. Note how certain sequence of inputs is recognized by the game.

I think the general goal players need to aim for when doing stagger recovery is a balance between speed and precision of inputs. Preferably you want all your inputs to be recognized as successful stagger recovery inputs; but poor execution can result in half or even more of your inputs to not being recognized. And if you focused on precision of inputs, you may have to sacrifice input speed..

Also several days ago I added a picture with diagram of Eileen's move in which stagger recovery examples will be done on.

Some testing still need to be done to 100% confirm:
On the very first frame in which the Red Stick Icon is displayed, no stagger frame recovery is done.

• So a button input on that first frame will result in 3 stagger frame recovery on the next frame (based on how buttons work in stagger frame recovery);
• however, direction input on this first frame will not result in 3 stagger frame removal (based on how directions work in stagger frame recovery).

 

Yup use whatever visual cue that gives you the best result.

I believe if you are waiting to see the red stick icon to show up on screen first before inputting stagger recovery, you are giving up a lot of the initial frames in which you can get successful inputs.

Visual Stimulus --> Reaction to the Visual --> Input recognized by the Game

Let's say average reaction time to stimulus is ~250 ms that is 15 frames in Virtua Fighter terms.

If the visual stimulus you are reacting to is the red stick icon ...you are more than likely giving up half the window that you can successfully input staggers and block in time to or .

Everyone's reaction time is different, so players will have to determine what their average reaction time is. Also take into consideration the latency from your device setup.

To get a rough idea of your reaction time to a stimulus..
https://humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime

I just took the test twice, and had a reaction of 206-213 ms...so in VF terms it took me 12-13 frames to do a simple reaction.

My recommendation specifically for Eileen's stagger, based on my reaction speed:

• The green stick icon is exactly 22 frames.
• A reaction speed of ~12-13 frames, I want to start inputting close to the halfway mark of the green stick icon.
• That way my inputs are more than likely to be recognized by the game at the first/second frame of the red stick icon.

 

@Sente Always great to see other testing methods reinforce/support the findings/observation. Thanks!

Another game system topic that I have not completed the videos I had planned to make. ^_^;;

 

In my tests, just with one single input of during the stagger I was able to recover 3 frames of stagger animation and the jab also executes. The single input is buffered within the stagger (near the end of the stagger versus near the beginning of the stagger) such that is not immediately executed when the input is registered.

 

All the tests I did was with Eileen’s outdated stagger pre-VF5US 2.01/REVO 1.0.

 

Hi Cameron, feel free to keep asking questions. They will if I ever get a chance help me to explain the system of stagger recovery better.

1 recovery input for each input, so a total of 2 recovery inputs.

The subsequent input is not recognized as a recovery input, only the initial input.

Returning to neutral itself does not create any additional recovery inputs. It may however help with cleaner execution of inputs, but that depends on your technique.

Correct, your example you used should be 7 recovery inputs.

I believe the game rules was designed so that rotating the stick would not be super efficient way to recover from staggers.