Vanessa sabakis and crushes

Hi

I noticed that the wiki didn't list Vanessa's sabaki or crush frames that comprehensively so I labbed them out.
I tried to be as rigorous as I could, but I would appreciate if someone double checks these.

Frames are one indexed here, meaning frame 1 is the first frame.

Short version of results, I'm posting the actual test setups below.

• Defensive frame 1 sabaki and high crush, at least till active frames
  
• Defensive frame 1 to 16 sabaki
• Defensive frame 5 to 20 sabaki
• Intercept frame 1 to 20 sabaki, gives advantage based on when it in the sabaki it's hit. Against punches it's +8 to +27 and against kicks it's +26 to +45
• Offensive frame 4 to 22 low crush
  
• Offensive frame 13 to 22 low crush
  
• Offensive frame 28 low crush, at least till active frames
  
• (as a bonus as far as I can tell jumps low crush on frame 5)

 

In these test cases I do the move being tested with immediate timing from the given frame advantage against the opponents move which is also done with immediate timing.

Defensive Testing

I got the -19 situation (for Vanessa) with Lion
Because of the range the Lion could maybe sometimes miss it's first active frame, but I never managed to make it lose, so I'm fairly confident that it's frame 1 sabaki.

Also the sabaki frames seem to cover the first active frame so it should never lose a trade with a low.

Code:

┌───────────┬───────────────────┬─────────────────┬────────┐
│ Advantage │     Opp. move     │ Collision frame │ Works? │
├───────────┼───────────────────┼─────────────────┼────────┤
│ -19       │ i20 (Lion 2P+K)   │ frame 1         │ Yes    │
│ +5        │ i12 (2P)          │ frame 17        │ Yes    │
│ -4        │ i22 (Van DS 1P+K) │ frame 18        │ Yes    │
└───────────┴───────────────────┴─────────────────┴────────┘

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Defensive Testing

I got the -13 situation with Pai on counterhit

Code:

┌───────────┬───────────────┬─────────────────┬────────┐
│ Advantage │   Opp. move   │ Collision frame │ Works? │
├───────────┼───────────────┼─────────────────┼────────┤
│ -13       │ i14 (Pai 6P)  │ frame 1         │ Yes    │
│ +2        │ i14 (Pai 6P)  │ frame 16        │ Yes    │
│ +2        │ i15 (Shun 6p) │ frame 17        │ No     │
└───────────┴───────────────┴─────────────────┴────────┘

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Defensive Testing

Code:

┌───────────┬─────────────────────┬─────────────────┬────────┐
│ Advantage │      Opp. move      │ Collision frame │ Works? │
├───────────┼─────────────────────┼─────────────────┼────────┤
│ -13       │ i17 (Pai 3K+G)      │ frame 4         │ No     │
│ -13       │ i18 (Pai 46K)       │ frame 5         │ Yes    │
│ +5        │ i15 (Vanessa DS 6K) │ frame 20        │ Yes    │
│ +5        │ i16 (Vanessa DS 3K) │ frame 21        │ No     │
└───────────┴─────────────────────┴─────────────────┴────────┘

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Intercept

The minmum advantage against kicks is calculated based on the difference between the max and min advantage against punches. Also I assume the punch and kick sabaki cover the same frames.

Against punches

Code:

┌───────────┬───────────────────────┬─────────────────┬──────────────────────────┐
│ Advantage │       Opp. move       │ Collision frame │ Post situation advantage │
├───────────┼───────────────────────┼─────────────────┼──────────────────────────┤
│ -11       │ i12 (2P)              │ frame 1         │ +8                       │
│ -11       │ i17 (Lion 1P)         │ frame 6         │ +13                      │
│ -11       │ i22 (Vanessa OS 1P)   │ frame 11        │ +18                      │
│ -11       │ i22 (Vanessa DS 1P+K) │ frame 11        │ +18                      │
│ +3        │ i12 (2P)              │ frame 15        │ +22                      │
│ +5        │ i12 (2P)              │ frame 17        │ +24                      │
│ +7        │ i12 (2P)              │ frame 19        │ +26                      │
│ +3        │ i17 (Lion 1P)         │ frame 20        │ +27                      │
└───────────┴───────────────────────┴─────────────────┴──────────────────────────┘

Against kicks

Code:

┌───────────┬───────────────────────┬─────────────────┬──────────────────────────┐
│ Advantage │       Opp. move       │ Collision frame │ Post situation advantage │
├───────────┼───────────────────────┼─────────────────┼──────────────────────────┤
│ -11       │ i16 (Vanessa DS 1K)   │ frame 5         │ +30                      │
│ -11       │ i17 (Vanessa DS 2K)   │ frame 6         │ +31                      │
│ -11       │ i17 (Vanessa OS 2K)   │ frame 6         │ +31                      │
│ -11       │ i21 (Vanessa OS 2K+G) │ frame 10        │ +35                      │
│ -11       │ i23 (Vanessa DS 1K+G) │ frame 12        │ +37                      │
│ +3        │ i17 (Vanessa DS 2K)   │ frame 20        │ +45                      │
│ +3        │ i18 (Goh 1K)          │ frame 21        │ Loses                    │
└───────────┴───────────────────────┴─────────────────┴──────────────────────────┘

 

And now I'm noticing I didn't write down the test cases for offensive stance low crushes in my notes. But they were tested the same way, like beats 2P after doing (which is now +1 in Revo). I'll put them together at some point and post them here. Also the wiki suggest Offensive might high crush, but I didn't find where they are supposed to be, but the input on it's own would dodge highs.

 

Offensive stance low crush testing results

9P
It seems loses it's low crush once it enters into its active frames, so it can lose a trade against a higher damage low

Code:

┌───────────┬─────────────────┬─────────────────┬────────┐
│ Advantage │    Opp. move    │ Collision frame │ Works? │
├───────────┼─────────────────┼─────────────────┼────────┤
│ -9        │ i12 (2P)        │               3 │ No     │
│ -8        │ i12 (2P)        │               4 │ Yes    │
│ +5        │ i17 (Lion 1P+K) │              22 │ Yes    │
│ -4        │ i27 (Lion 3K+G) │              23 │ No     │
└───────────┴─────────────────┴─────────────────┴────────┘

1K+G

Seems I made a mistake in my initial testing, seems to lose it's low crush few frames before it becomes active

Code:

┌───────────┬─────────────────┬─────────────────┬────────┐
│ Advantage │    Opp. move    │ Collision frame │ Works? │
├───────────┼─────────────────┼─────────────────┼────────┤
│ 0         │ i12 (2P)        │              12 │ No     │
│ +1        │ i12 (2P)        │              13 │ Yes    │
│ +5        │ i17 (Lion 1P+K) │              22 │ Yes    │
│ +6        │ i17 (Lion 1P+K) │              23 │ No     │
└───────────┴─────────────────┴─────────────────┴────────┘

K+G

seems to have low crush till active frames, but as far as I know the whole game doesn't have a low that does over 35 damage so it's impossible to test if this loses it's low crush when entering active frames like does, but in practice it might as well have low crush during active frames.

Code:

┌───────────┬───────────────────┬─────────────────┬────────┐
│ Advantage │     Opp. move     │ Collision frame │ Works? │
├───────────┼───────────────────┼─────────────────┼────────┤
│ +15       │ i12 (2P)          │              27 │ No     │
│ +16       │ i12 (2P)          │              28 │ Yes    │
│ +15       │ i21 (Van OS 2K+G) │              36 │ Yes    │
└───────────┴───────────────────┴─────────────────┴────────┘

 

Ok, now this whole thing looks pretty much complete to me. As far as I can tell, the sabaki and low crush frames are useful enough info that they probably could be added to the command list notes. If any Vanessa content managers have opinions about this, I would appreciate it.

 

How about DS 9K+G? They turned it into a mid in this version. It would be nice knowing if/when it can crush lows.

 

Good point, I completely forgot about defensive 1K+G and 9K+G. I would imagine both of those have some evasive properties.

 

Ok, I forgot I had already tested 1K+G, that is low profile immediately, like 2P etc.

9K+G is low crush from frame 14 to at least it's active frames

I actually managed to test the first active frame too with this same setup because 9K+G actually whiffs on the opponent in these tests. (The 2Ps were also tested with Lion). The move is a mid but the hitbox is still very high up.

It's hard to say what here is true low crush and what is just Vanessas hitbox being in the sky, but it probably doesn't matter in practice.

Code:

┌───────────┬─────────────────┬─────────────────┬────────┐
│ Advantage │    Opp. move    │ Collision frame │ Works? │
├───────────┼─────────────────┼─────────────────┼────────┤
│ +1        │ i12 (2P)        │              13 │ No     │
│ +2        │ i12 (2P)        │              14 │ Yes    │
│ +8        │ i17 (Lion 1P+K) │              25 │ Yes    │
│ +9        │ i17 (Lion 1P+K) │              26 │ Yes    │
└───────────┴─────────────────┴─────────────────┴────────┘