Final Tuned, VF5 vaniila, and Final Showdown, etc

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So, VFFS announcement at Plagues house?

 

My house is the US location test for VF5:FS.

Wait... did I just post that outloud?!

 

There were (are) about seven known FT machines in North America. Most were privately owned. Arcade Infinity in SoCal had FT for quite some time. My guess is that 100 to 200 people on this board have played the game in North America.

 

The only VF I have played more than FT is VF5.

From most to least played it goes:

VF5> VF4:FT > EVO > VF Kids

 

They aren't for the better. They made throws slower which made fuzzy guard the 'base' defensive technique, which is the most boring defensive technique in vf. They then added additional benefits for throws (clash, 0f version) to make up for the fact that they were slower. In the end it didn't add much to the game in my opinion, just complicated things for the sake of changing them when the system was already clean, pure, and made sense. Personally though, and I said this before vf5 was ever announced, I think 10f throws that don't clash would be perfect. They could keep 0f throw mechanic as well.

 

i just bought vf4 EVO on ebay should be coming soon, and im gonna see for myself how this 8 frame throw works and non throw clash. i started VF5 in VANILLA C version, im soo used to this system.. But ill see what all the veteran VF players are talking about... perhaps i may like vf4 evo system better. Btw, I LOVE FUZZY GUARDS.. however online, fuzzy's may not be as effective.. U know, maybe sega wants to make a game thats more real online??

just a thought. since abare is easier to apply than fuzzy online perhaps sega thought for online purposes (if they bring it to console that is) that it be more good for online play.. FUZZY can be really bad online sometimes..
TE u can now hold G and do it... that would limit the accidental ETE?? man its been a long day, i duno what im saying. back to work. BUt FS got me all excited today at work for some reason..and my evo
( :

 

because you dont have to commit to anything/no movement involved.

-edit man lol idk about ch state or something on failed evades. kwonho had that and it was not pretty!

 

Clash = Moral. I love it. One thing i noticed about this site is nobody is ever satisfied. The Clash system gave nothing or took anything away and yet people complained like it broke the series?

I remember arguing with somebody about vf4:evo playing faster than and said something along the lines of it not being faster but the frames are just shorter. from that point on i had to limit who i listen to. In short i hope Sega keeps the clash system for VF5:FS, Make failed evade hits MC (If they were all Side crumples i can image the carnage that would occur.). Allow tracking on Successful a longer activation time.

 

VF4 and EVO had an option select where you could install an attack into evades, and depending on what your opponent did, the attack would either successfully connect or simply not come out at all. This was known as Very Important Protection, or VIP, and it was used quite often in high level VF. The basic premise is that when you evade at medium disadvantage, if you used VIP in your evade, you could directly beat your opponents attacks and throws. Instead of having to use throw escapes during your evade to avoid getting thrown, you could cancel that evade with a crouch dash, and then build an attack off of that crouch dash. It's basically VF's answer to Street Fighter's dragon punch install option select.

AM2 thought that this was far too powerful in competitive play in VF4:EVO, and also that it created too strong of a barrier for intermediate players to pass, both conceptually and execution wise. So in VF4FT they changed the properties of evades so that VIP was no longer possible.

Of course intermediate and beginner players were still not happy that they were still getting launched out of their throw attempts in VF4FT. An attack against a normal throw would always win, meaning you could try to throw your opponent outside of +8 situations, and you might eat a launcher or a SPoD. In an attempt to further rectify this problem, AM2 added the throw clash to VF5, which makes throws and attacks sometimes cancel each other out into a +0 situation. The problem is that the throw clash was not made for competitive playing and was added, just like simplified movements, and easier commands, to assist beginners or make the game less unforgiving for intermediate players who were having problems making the leap to competitive play.

I have no problem with certain things being simplified. Akira's knee in VF4 had no dedicated failure animation. If you tried for a knee and messed up the input you got a standing kick. In VF4EVO they made a second knee animation. Same thing with Kage's dragon punch, you can go for the 4-3-2 frame links and get more damage, or you can go for the easier input for less damage. Akira's DLC was given two inputs as well in VF5, one that was harder but yielded more damage, and one that was easier and yielded lower damage. The point is that those things didn't punish better players and didn't really interfere with competitive play, yet they simultaneously made the game more accessible to beginners and intermediates. Those are essentially win-win changes.

Throw clash is the exact opposite kind of change. Because beginners complained about getting launched out of their throws in VF4, AM2 went too far, in my opinion, with throw clash. VF4FT's diminishing of VIP was perfect as it was and didn't need to be taken further. Throw clash completely dumbs one of the best aspects of VF down, the reverse nitaku, and abare play.

There is no right way to play VF (besides lose less life than your opponent). You can play a moral style, you can emphasize striking attacks, go for a lot of throws, and you can play abare. It's just like rushdown or turtle style in 2D games. Throw clash forces players to adjust to a needless mechanic that limits how you can express yourself as a player. AM2 is basically saying "we want you to play this way". Boring.

VF4/EVO/FT are noticeably faster than VF5 overall. And from what I've heard about 5R it's not as fast as 4 either. Maybe VF5FS will be a return to form for VF and actually ramp up the difficulty again to where it was for the previous iteration.

 

Right and Scare away New players because you want to go backwards on a needless play mechanic. Clash = Moral. Leave it at that since its not a game breaker. If all moves clashed then it would be bogus but its done just right. How could you want VIP moves if Vets can use this move and intermediate players can't get pass it? WTF!! i can't understand that. Then to top it off you want Failure animation for misinputted moves? So that means you want full cicular roundhouse guarded staggers like VF3?

Lke i said You people are never satisfied.

Sega when in the Right direction with R. So FS can only be nirvana.

 

Scare away people? VF4 was far more popular than VF5 despite the enormous execution, reading, and memorization barriers. And throw clash is almost entirely needless because all it did was scrub the game down and slow specific situations down to a crawl. In VF4, throw versus attack would result in damage and a frame advantage. In VF5, throw versus attack can sometimes result in zero damage and +0 frame advantage. Needless and boring.

You don't understand VF4FT and need to reread my post again. VIP is not possible in VF4FT because evade properties were changed. This was a far better alternative than throw clash. VF4 and EVO had VIP, in 4FT it was removed, in 5 the throw clash was added even though AM2 had already taken VIP out of VF.

And yeah I don't want scrubs and beginners to have the game changed for them and brought down to their level. I want them to elevate themselves to the level of the game. I don't want VF dumbed down to rake in more quarters and sell more copies. I would rather have a smaller scene of furiously hardcore and competitive players than a larger scene that consists largely of scrubs and whiners who refuse to better themselves.

Sure a bunch of casuals will play VF at first if it's a dumb game. But once the dust settles, and all that remains are hardcore players, we are left with mechanics designed for scrubs. Great, throw clash attracted a bunch of players for a few months, but now they are all gone and the people left playing are stuck with a garbage mechanic. Great...

Things like easier moves that yield lower damage don't detract from competitive play. The 'easy' version of moves exist alongside the more difficult versions. It's not like AM2 removed Kage's easy dragon punch when they added the newer version with the 4-3-2 frame links.

There are two versions. One for advanced competitive users. And one for casuals or beginners. Win-win. If you want to mash and casually play VF then there is a set of moves for you. If you want to play competitively then you can graduate to a more advanced set of moves.

Throw clash exists for everyone yet it was only designed for beginners. Win-lose. When you are an intermediate player you can clash your throws against attacks mindlessly. Once you graduate to competitive play you'll start to realize that AM2 is forcing reverse nitaku situations to be played specific ways. There is less creativity and freedom in VF5.

4FT is perfect and I wouldn't change a thing. I'm sure lots of people on this board can echo the same thing. If 4FT was on the PSN or XBL I doubt I would even play 5 or 5S at all. The problem is that people who are familiar with 4FT much prefer it to 5/R and most likely 5FS which is why people are much less satisfied with VF5.

 

Who on this board would'nt prefer R over FT? Who on this Board played FT? In fact your telling me you would prefer FT Over 5:FS automatically because of the difficulty to play the game the right way?

VF4:FT is probably a great game that i never got to play but i'm not going backwards here. R Looked great the past 2 years and FS might be the be all end all and i'll leave it at that. I for one would not abandon 5 for 4:FT.

 

Lots of people...

4FT was faster and more fluid. It's the fluidity that people like about VF4FT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI7EG6xgxYI&#t=1m45s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKmcZVRvsfA&#t=3m45s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnaQPsYOE5Q&#t=15s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1Q2xTZ5cvY&#t=1m40s

Look at how fluid those movements are. Despite the movement system in VF being restrictive on paper the players extracted all of a lot of depth out of it. The VF5 movement system isn't subtle and is very loud and almost dumb. And the depth of the VF5 movement system doesn't go much beyond the surface in my opinion (at least compared to 4).

It's not just that the game, 4, was difficult, but it had incredible layered depth and was exceptionally smooth to both play and watch. Look at the movement system in VF4, it's very simple on paper, but once it evolved and was explored, things like ARE, VIP, ECD, and Minami Step were discovered.

AM2 tried to make VF5's movement more accessible and also more safe. They tried to intentionally design it to be deep but in the end it evolved to be shallow and boring. With VF4's movement system they took a risk with it by making it restrictive and it paid off. As the game evolved the movement system in 4 revealed itself to have incredible depth below the surface much more than anyone expected.

There is a reason why people play ST, HF, AE, A2, A3, and 3S simultaneously. Despite being various Street Fighter games they are different enough to be unique fighters. And people from the Tekken community still play T4 and especially TTT. It's a shame that many people on these boards don't play VF4/EVO/FT anymore (though the Demul community is looking to fix that it seems).

I'm not saying "you can only play 4 or 5 and not both", but if you haven't purchased a PS2 and at least fired up EVO then you honestly should. There is no reason that one can't play both 4 and 5. I'll be playing 5FS like crazy, I plan on taking at least five characters beyond intermediate level. But if anyone says "you want to play 4/EVO/FT" I'll easily take them up on it.

 

Using Akira's knee by 1K+G G instead of standing. Low kick is less risk than standing K when you fail.

 

clash complicates the game for beginners, just more statistics to memorize for them

 

I played FT, I'd rather have R.

 

I'll take anything other than VF5 Vanilla. I'll say it again! I have hated this game since the very day that I bought the import PS3 version.

I only play it cause I've been devoted to the VF series for so long and well it's the only thing my sad ass can play fairly well.

I'll take anything over Vanilla at this point.

 

No it don't. You throw, I attack we both end neautral. Only a Asshole would'nt understand that (Doing ryu's fireball is harder.).

I played 4 and Evo. and when i bought 5 i noticed a speed difference big time. I did'nt play 4 and evo on a higher level than im at now. I had to get broken down in 5 bad to understand the correct way to play. The movement in Evo no means at all is not more fluid... Its just faster. If i learn Evo the way i learned 5 i would see throws coming a mile away with that gameplay speed. But again i ask you what People? Did you ever play VF5:FT? If you sat VF5:R and VF4:FT in front of all of us right now everybody WILL play R.

BTW i seen those Vids before. Funny thing about them is with all that incredible stepping. It looked like a pokefest because the stepping was so good.