Is there any 100% way to deal with Brad's into ducking/slipping? If the punch is blocked, the knee can't be evaded. I'm certain Brad can beat nearly any option the opponent makes if he guesses right, and he gets good damage too. It seems random, but strong.

I think Jeffry is the same in the sense. Imo heavyweights should be played with the logic that they aren't gonna be hit as hard as smaller characters off of launchers. Not to mention, some setups don't work because of their weight.

Zangief logic?

Well, one of Brad strong points is his ability to get nitaku.
But that not the same of thing of being able to overcome a "guarding opponent" , he still have to rely on santaku at the end and his throw game is pretty much standard.


I totally agree for your remark about heavyweights, low/mid risk for high reward. But they usually suffer of a lack of tools compared to the rest of the cast, unless if your name is Taka.

I've been saying that forever but no one ever listens because I play Lion.

"just side turn them LOL!!" "You don't need to launch! Heavy weights suck!"

E tier really means S teir, go Eileen

I would swap a few characters around with D and E though

I wish they would rename this to the VF "TEARS" list cause of all the crying going on. Look like you guys need to go offline and beat some Japanese players since you all know so much. ROFL

Im pleased to see Vanessa in A tier. She has numerous tools to discourage opponents from evading(DS kk DS 3p+k DS k+g),good throws, she is pretty damn safe ,and she has the most + on block moves. Her weight keeps her out of S tier

This just in: Arcadia lists don't apply to America who, overall, suck. List should be as follows:

SS: Japan
Large Gap

B: America

Kage = super god tier because my brother uses him to kick my ass all day long.

Also, they should have a separate ranking for online fights, where Lei Fei = win and everyone else = lose.

Just for fun's sake that woul be my tier list after a few years of playing.

S: Akira, Taka
A: Jacky, Lion, Brad
B: Goh, Shun, Wolf, Sarah, Kage, Lau, Lei-Fei, Aoi, Vanessa
C: Pai, El Blaze
D: Eileen, Jeff

S: Chars with strong options and and almost no real weakness
A: Chars with almost as strong options but some kind of weaknesses (Lion= weight/damage, Jacky= trouble against yutori, Brad = throws/no double limb)
B: Average chars
C: Under average chars
D: Low tier


Akira: after a few years he is still considered the top char, but personnaly I don't see him above Taka, I think ther are kindah same level. Akira may be better overall against the rest of the cast (especially light chars) but the Taka Akira matchup seems in Taka's favor imo.
Also judging at tournament results a SS char should dominate, in reality is it really the case ? Taka seems even better as far as major tournament results goes.

Lion: Really complete char with a strong wall game. His main pbm imo is his weight/ damage ratio that hurts him, especially against other top tiers that are usually a weight class (or more) above him. Also while playing with 41236P against most of the cast will make you happy Jacky can punish it for almost 100 and taka will hurt you too. He really shines against lightweights where he has good damage and good ring outs tactics.

Brad: Offensive char with a pretty complete arsenal. Really, really good zoning with 44K.Arguably the best punish overall.
His throws are average, or even below. All his best attacks are single limb so he is vulnerable to sabaki if he gets predictable.

Lei: Personally I've always had trouble picturing Lei-Fei as a low tier, both by looking at his options rationnaly or by looking at vids of top jap players.

Vanessa: almost a C to me, the more I play the game the more I don't see why she would be higher. When looking at jp top players streams I can't remember seeing Vane dominating beside Kaibutsu once in while. Also there are no very high rank Vanessa players (storm, magma lord etc). Kaibutsu for exeample is not that highly ranked.
Even Eillen or Lei-Fei have a few players with those ranks or had some good moments in tourneys, maybe that's just that her player base is low...

Is Pai really that low or is that she just has to work harder against most of the cast? Some of you may have heard of me. I'm JDE, the Kasumi player from DOA. A DOA player crossing over to VF BTW from the influence of some friends most notably Blackula & Silent Legend. Learning to for offline festivities. Pai & Kage are my choices. I wanted to start with Pai 1st since I'm learning the game & heard she was pretty straightforward. Thanks in advance.

Imo Pai is a bit like a Lion but with less tools.
In terms of weight she is close Lion, both need CH for their main launcher, they have good lows, some evasive moves and some stances that are good but not the core of their play like Sarah or Lei. Throw game is about even imo.

But Lion has a guard break with good damage, better lows, better wall game, Better ring outgame, better side turned game and good anti sabaki attacks or moves that can really kill stance base characters like 1K.
Pai has 3P+K that is very good, and better strings. Unless she hits counter her damage is pretty low. To force those mistakes she has to pester with lows or gamble a throw both of which induce risks.

I agree with pretty much all your list, but have slightly different opinions. In my opinion Lions main weakness is his lack of strong fast punishes, particularly knee-speed (17f) mid NH/RC launch that many other characters have.

Takas main weakness in my opinion are his circulars, particularly lack of good fullcircular, and the fact that he can be punished from the side sometimes worse than other characters due to taka-specific natural combos.

Yeah that's a good point. If you compare his punishes to the other guys at the top, he is clearly way behind, in fact he might be bottom 3 as far as punish goes.

Getting Pai going depends on the platform and the competition. I find her poking marvelous, but otherwise I agree she needs to take more risks to make real profit. PP4P, 2P+K and Bokutai stance are all nice but not game changers against good reaction based play and reads. Many good players I know main Pai and I don't see any wrong with that. Having a good gameplan and adapting style works.[Eight]-zero nailed it a few posts before. Japs have an environment that gives them a rather big edge on ranking characters.

People here in VF community may sound like a broken record, but VF is not considered a tier whoring game at all. Perhaps the only char with no flare IMho is Jeff and I'm sure some agree with that too. Play the char you like and dojo it out in the forum and the actual game to test it.

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah it doesn't really matter for me in terms of tiers. It just means you may have to be on point. As long as the gap isn't really huge. Thanks again. I chose her 1st since she was straightforward & I can learn more of the mechanics. I kind of exaggerated the 1st paragraph. lol. I won't be learning another character soon after. At least for a while since I have other things going on. So it'll just be her for offline.

Personally I will agree that Lion is overall better then Pai, but in her favor I will mention better throw game and having reversals( not THAT useful in VF in compare to other 3D FGs, but still nice option to have). 13-f doublehand mid is nasty tool as well.
I also believe she have slightly better anti-wakeup game then Lion and that she can make you feel much worse if she "own" you

The only advantage that Pai got in her throw game is the crouch throw
Both of Lion's 6 and 4 throw are about the same damage and he got a throw that leads to combos where you can change the enders for dmg/oki mixups