My thoughts on the current state of fighting games

But My BallZ are bigger than yours.

 

So we've come full circle. Nobody can even stage an argument anymore and everyone's resorted to one liners and funny pictures.

You guys can take this thread from here. Maybe someday when the majority of you are still bitter about how nobody got the greatest game evar, someone will come back to this thread and have a better idea of what happened and how things turned out the way they did. Those of you who have been quietly agreeing with me already do.

 

Yep. I guess we are at a impasse now. You can go back to your click bait and we can go back playing greatest game ever VF.

 

Thank you for the thread, I will take this opportunity to point out your awe-filling lack of VF knowledge so any that may read this know not to listen.

You once said " You act like I dont know about baiting evades or that evading high punch is bad." , Interesting how the only two things you mentioned were the exact two things that had just been pointed out to you in previous posts.

So i challenge you to answer a few simple questions...
How does one bait an evade , and how and why does it work. and how can the evader protect themselves from this.
Why is evading high punch different than other moves and how does that affect the situation.
What does 'safe" mean
What does "punish" mean

I dont care how successful you are in Fgs or even VF, I care if you are talking about VF in detail when you have never had the tiniest dedication to learn even the first thing about it.
My guess is you are a player that is completely taken apart close range due to your lack of understanding of VF/advantage/what is going on. So you ,naturally, you find your only success comes when you can get distance on your opponent, but even this is not enough to win, so you say "I wish there was more to do from way back here..." and you go on thinking that the game needs to accommodate your play style, but really its your lack of intellect. This situation is very common, i suggest you put ego aside and just learn from scratch.

At every turn you display your ignorance, and remarkably , ignorance of your ignorance.
It would be easy for anyone with VF knowledge to answer these questions within reason, and blow my assertions out of the water. Your silence has been deafening.

 

This thread needs to be put down like a lame horse.

 

Just equip Vanessa's Gatling gun for long range or simply equip Jeff's shield for stronger defense, duh.
Glad I could solve this dilemma.

 

As a fan of all that is contrarian, I support this thread.

Fixed.

Seriously. Everyone should get it. http://store.steampowered.com/app/217200/

(Hey Team 17, when do I get my check?)

 

Hi everyone, I am from Tekken Zaibatsu,
I've played both VF and Tekken from the mid 90s. But I am only a casual/non tourny fan of FGs. I play alot of Tekken Revolution at the moment.

Here are some of my thoughts on OPs concepts.
1) The concept of controlling space via projectiles goes against VFs realism theme. Wether this theme is financially viable in todays market is debatable, but it is a theme used by VF to create its own niche in the 3d FG market.

2) The concept of controlling space via more ranged attacks exist, but not to the extent and strict timing of 2D fighters. Could this concept exist in a 3D fighter? Of course. SC tries to do this, as was mentioned, but not with strict timing of 2D.
But conceptually, why bother? By controlling space you would essentially be playing a 2D game. Freedom would be restricted. It would play exactly like a 2D game. A more convoluted 2D game. Who would play this, when a simpler more established 2D version already exists.

Turning apples (3D) into oranges (2D) is not the solution to the problem plagueing 3D fighters today.

Thank you OP for creating an interesting topic.

 

I would recommend VF's step-brother, DOA5LR to the OP.

It has a robot man with red fireballs, a Tengu woman with a fullscreen tornadoes (she can fly too) and teleporting double-jumping ninjas. Best of all, it has four VF character, so you can test your theories.


Also, thanks for this thread. It has been a hilarious train wreck.

 

So just a (another) minor recap here., According your thoughts on the current state of fighting games, at least 4 propositions can be inferred, or are entailed, or are abducible from your initial post.


1. 3D fighting games are about to die (or are doomed in their current state)

2. The virtua fighter series has achieved (for the most part) everything that it can

3. 3D fighting games are a tired and doomed genre

4. The salvation of 3D fighting games involves adding some of the awesome gameplay mechanics from 2D fighting games.

There is some non sequitur fireworks going on here big time my friend.

3D fighting games are alive and well (even if we never see another title or version of the currently available 3D fighting games) The ones that are in existence will be played in one form or another for decades. Both chess and tic-tac-toe are still alive and will be played in their current forms for the forseeable future. So it is with 3D fighting games. As long as there is something to play a Tekken, or VF, or DOA on, there will be thousands of ppl playing it.

Every VF version that I've ever seen introduced a new subtle change in gameplay dynamics. Every version. From an inductive logic point of view if VF3 added something to VF2 and VF4 added something to VF3 and VF4 Evo added something to VF4 and Final Tuned added something to VF4 evo.. etc. etc it is likely the case that if a VF6 is ever made it will add some innovation to VF5FS. There has been innovation all the way up the line so far, no reason to believe that it won't keep happening given that another VF is ever made.

3D fighting games are a Tired Genre (says the guy excited about 2D fighters at the moment). Please define Tired in this context. I just fought a guy on PSN yesterday that had over 23,000 matches OMG and he was still playing like a demon as was most of the players I played yesterday. What do you mean by Tired., I can't speak for XBL but on PSN we have new players, or old players creating new accounts almost daily!!!!!!!

If we could just add these nifty 2D fighting concepts and mechanics to 3D fighting games and VF in particular that would deal with the death of the tired 3D fighting games that have done all that they can do.

Since this is your opinion and reflects your thoughts on the current state of 3D fighting games I have to conclude that you personally are tired of playing classic 3D fighting games and as far as their place in your fighting game repertoire, its virtually over (excuse the pun) and you're moving on to newer, more exciting, more challenging , more innovative intersections between 2D fighting games and 3D mechs. Which is kewl.

One favor please.,. In a couple of years check back in with us and let us know how that 2D-3D fighting game integration thing is working out for you. I'm sure you'll have equally interesting observations at that time.

Cheers mate!

 

3D fighters are no more dead than 2D, even USF4 numbers are at an all time low online, not as bad as VF but its a noticeable difference compared to before, I think the old gen/next gen issue may be the real problem, next gen games like MKX & KI seem to be more popular overall atm and I suspect Tekken 7 will also do well, so far as VF is concerned it's not unpopular because it needs to be changed it's unpopular because it was changed, for some of us that used to play it lots but stopped years ago the reason is simple, FS is not VF.

 

Reason fighting games are dead because the only, and I do mean ONLY, fighting games to get the online system right was Dead or Alive Ultimate (xbox) and Dead or Alive 4(360).

 

Are 3D fighters dead?
Masterpo says some form will be played somewhere in the world at sometime. This is using the definition of 'dead' in absolute terms. It is incorrect in the context that to most people in society 'dead' is used in relative terms. And this is VERY important, as modern game developers do look at THINGS relatively, especially the bottom-line. Compared to a COD or GTA are 2D fighters dead? Relatively speaking, they sell nowhere aswell. In the same manner, 3D does not sell aswell as 2D. If you were running a company, why would invest in something that does not sell aswell?
Casual gaming/social gaming are changing everything. As a fan of fighters, I do fear for the future of the genre.
Complexity in modern gaming seems to be the main concern of FG developers currently. Namco and Sega are 'dumbing' down both their FG franchises to broaden their appeal. The hope is that this will attract new gamers, as they do so they risk alienating their loyal fans.
Personally, I feel the issue runs deeper. It is my belief that the pioneers of gaming, the japanese, have lost touch with modern gaming and it is their failings that has lead to the precarious situation 3D fighters find themselves in.
Will current 3D fighters die? Yes, if they havent already. But that doesnt mean that they will not return in some form in the future.

 

VF6-Resurrection.

 

VF 6 will happen for sure, I just hope its good. I have never been dissapointed yet, although I was not a "real" VF player until recently. That being said FS is VF, I still have yet to find a situation that doesnt have a well thought out solution, this is an actual subject i would love to delve into more, i absolutely respect an O.G.'s view on current VF , I would like to understand it in more detail however, and am curious if any of my thoughts on the matter would affect the opinion in any way.

The basic problem with FS as I hear it is ... There are too many decent options from a bad situation, too many ways to not respect defense and just mash out. Too many ways for a lesser skilled player to avoid his come-uppance.

I am interested if there are other or more detailed reasons that i have not heard, although the above reason is a damn good one.

Did the replacement of MTE with GTE (lazy) leave a bad taste in the mouth because it was a bad change , or because it was making useless a skill that took time to master? Or both?

I dont get to have this conversation ever so forgive me for seeming ignorant on the matter.

On paper, every problem in FS has an answer, and the only time so far that a problem cant be solved is with lag. If FS played frame perfect/lag free would that change opinions about it? Or is this a problem with the system that cant be addressed?

 

That is the issue, how are we defnining what it means for a 3D fighting game to be dead.

If we are measuring "dead" by how many new 3D fighting games are being worked on by some game developer somewhere in the world that is a reasonable way to look at it for some ppl.

If we are measuring "dead" by thre are no new players logging into Tekken Tag2, VF5FS , DOALR, SCV and its the same old players week after week, that is a reasonable way to look at it for some ppl.

If we measuring "dead" by the lack of hype about any current 3D fighting game by the casual or noobie audience i suppose that is a reasonable way to look at it for some ppl.

But I"m making another point altogether. Both 2D and 3D fighting games at one point were gaming FADS new concepts, much hyped, heros and legends were born, but now the concept of a video game in general and fighting games in particular are institutions. The 2D and 3D Fighting game are to video games what Chess is to board games They are now standard institutions beyond the hype. And they aren't going anywhere. They are now a normal staple in gaming culture. They are part of the gaming vocabulary. Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Tekken, Virtua Fighter , Soul Calibur, these games are as immortal as chess and checkers are but only in the video game sense.

To say that the 2D fighting game or 3D fighting game is dead or about to be dead is not to understand the transformation that video games have made from fad to fact of life. Right now fathers (and mothers) are passing down to sons and daughters the tradition of good ole fashion whoop ass in some fighting game. There is a 7 year old little lady in my house learning all about VF as G.O.A.T with SC, Tekken and DOA coming close behind, she can tell you all about advantage , turtling, and rage pullin To think that 2D or 3D fighting games will ever die is simply a mistake in understanding how established video games have become in human culture. 2D and 3D fighting games are permanent fixtures in society and will no more die than baseball or basketball.


Will new 2D or 3D fighting games continue to be made? It doesn't matter There is enough 2D and 3D content for decades and decades. There will be retro movements where the older the fighting game the better. There will be resurrections, and anniversaries, and re-enactments, and tourney re-unions, movies will be made that will start the hype all over again, clubs will open up featuring oldie but goldie 2D and 3D fight night, and on and on. 2D and 3D vs parties will be rediscovered 20 years from now. The old fighting strategy guides will become the object of tomb raiders for the lost art of frames and fighting strategy. Nope my friends 20 years from now somebody will be getting a good old fashion Tekken or DOA beat down, somewhere in the world

I'm a VF martial artist now and I'll be one 20 years from now

 

You have a really positive attitude. And while I wholeheartedly agree with you that VF (4evo) is timeless and comparable to chess, I don't know if it will always be popular. In fact, since graphics improve every generation, the majority of people (casuals) will not play something that is old. I tried to get my brother to play me in VF4evo. He plays halo/GTA/COD. I told him VF4evo is the perfect fighting game. He didnt even bother to look. To him, it was illogical to play something from a previous generation, never mind two generations back.