A.I. ? ?

Discussion in 'Console' started by Powda, Mar 27, 2002.

  1. Powda

    Powda Active Member

    I created an A.I. character and spared with it once.
    Then i took it to the Kumite and watch what would happen.
    There is a box over my fighters head and when i push some buttons he looked at me like he was stupid and didnt know what to do. My question is, what exactly is an Artificial Intelligence character and how do i train them?
     
  2. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Read the manual?
     
  3. King_Ruckus

    King_Ruckus Member

    You've almost answered your own question:).

    You spar with the character to teach it moves. You can show it replays to help it learn how to react in certain situations(or at least copy how YOU would react). There's more...in the manual:)
     
  4. Typhoon

    Typhoon Well-Known Member

    The 'box' over their head is just a nice lookin gizmo to amuse you and differentiate between AI and non. This object will spin and light up when you coach it. And it will do this anytime you press a button... but the AI wont learn a darn thing if you press buttons like mad. Only coach it when it asks (the interface at the bottom will say PLAY), and only when you are sure the move they did was good or bad. If they ask your opinion of a move when its hit for MC and you didnt get to see what it tried to do... just let it fight until the next time it asks. You could unwittingly undermine your own AI if you coach it on something you didnt even see.
    This leads to trust, which is the top value in your AI status. The more you let AIs fight on their own without coaching (and they still whoop booty), the more trust will rise. Trust also seems to rise when you coach correctly and turn a losing battle into a win.
    With low trust, the AI will tend to ignore your coaching and do what they feel like for a few moves before your coaching kicks in. With high trust the AI will listen to your coaching immediately and alter move patterns quickly enough to respond to situations (stop punching Vane in defensive... stop trying to throw Lau while hes going apeshit on you... etc.). Higher trust leads to much more effective AI.
    Hope that helps... took me a while to figure out some of the undocumented aspects of AI.
     
  5. ghostdog

    ghostdog Well-Known Member

    Typhoon gave some good advice concerning AI training. Here's a few more tips:

    1)I try to show replays to the AI before sparring sessions. My Shun AI character has gotten a lot better when fighting the opponent recently, and I think part of the credit goes to the replays.

    2)I let my AI characters fight in the arcade mode, before going into the Kumite mode. I wait for the character to get to Jeffry's stage without continuing before letting it go to Kumite.

    3)Spar with your AI as much as possible. That's where it learns a majority of the techniques, moves, and combos.

    I'm still experimenting with AI training, so I'm in the same boat as you (I just got a memory card). Hopefully my advice helps.
     
  6. Typhoon

    Typhoon Well-Known Member

    1)I try to show replays to the AI before sparring sessions. My Shun AI character has gotten a lot better when fighting the opponent recently, and I think part of the credit goes to the replays.

    I've begun doing this as well and while almost the same as in the actual fight you can see more of what is going on. I now save replays for all losing matches and replay them to teach the AI what caused them the loss. And it does help!
    Replays are also alot like Ghostdogs suggestion on Arcade mode... you can repeatedly give advice without the worry of losing rank (or face). Going through the same replay 2 or 3 times can really boost the strong points in your AIs fighting style.

    3)Spar with your AI as much as possible. That's where it learns a majority of the techniques, moves, and combos.

    I have some worries about that. True, it does learn much faster in spar than in several fights, but I would NOT take an AI into spar to mess around and try new stuff out with it. Every single move you make in sparring reflects back on how your AI performs. Also I wouldnt spend much time sparring per session. Show it one or two new techniques or combos and end it! Otherwise you give the AI too much room to play and they will abandon portions of their old fighting style that you may not see resurface for a while.
    Show them pointers and then let them incorporate it into fights. GO back to spar and give then another tip... fight again.
    Every single time you go into sparring, know exactly what you are trying to accomplish going in and make SURE you do it right. Errors in your judgement mean errors in theirs (but it does make them fight more like an arcade opponent... 'where the hell is the damn d/f on this stick???'). Don't go overboard on sparring once they are established fighters.

    Edit: quick tip I just picked up on... if you suck at AI training and for some reason can't do some of the more difficult moves, not to worry... AI can not only learn techniques from you, but also from mirror matches! After making an AI Shun for AI testing purposes I dropped him into Kumite and went out for a bite to eat. I only taught him 2 or 3 canned combos. When I got back he was whizzing out some nice moves. Why? In mirror matches against other Shuns, he was learning the same techniques they were using to pound him into the ground! Gives me hope for some of those 'impossible with a pad' moves with Akira!
     
  7. Marginal

    Marginal Well-Known Member

    Is there any huge value in not going into sparring, but putting your AI into vs mode instead? Seems to me that that's the most direct way to weed out bad habits. You just punish them every time they appear. Multiple hit minuses later...
     
  8. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    Yeah, in vs. mode you could also teach it specific defensive things against specific opponents too... such as defending against Akiras pull in throw variations.
     
  9. PS2_VFighter

    PS2_VFighter Member

    Okay ive just started training an AI also and i have some questions. The little remote thing that shows in matches ive figured you press X when the AI does something stupid and circle when its good. And that i should only press things when the word "play" appears, is this correct? What, if anything do i press when the "?" appears?

    So far I've been able to improve my AI char a little bit, but he is still pretty retarded. Some things he still cant pick up. Like sometimes he still just sits there, not doing anything, and looks clueless, even though he knows many moves and pulls them off at different times. Another thing, I dont understand how to teach him WHEN to do something, like a good attack for the beginning of a match, or when to counter and use reversals. Also, even though attacks are easy to teach by showing him in sparring, how do i show him the most important thing of all, defense? In sparring I will always block everything he throws back at me, so maybe he could learn that but he still lacks defensive skills.

    Thanks for any help.
    A guide or FAQ for AI mode would be a great addition to this site also, as there is little information about this mode so far, and most people are clueless entering it.
     
  10. Mizkreant

    Mizkreant Well-Known Member

    <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

    Okay ive just started training an AI also and i have some questions. The little remote thing that shows in matches ive figured you press X when the AI does something stupid and circle when its good. And that i should only press things when the word "play" appears, is this correct? What, if anything do i press when the "?" appears?

    <hr></blockquote>
    As far as I know, you can't respond when the "?" appears. The reason this happens is because of the way the AI learns moves. If you go to the Edit File mode, select Status, and move the stick to the right, it'll show your AI stats. Move one more time to the right. It will list that character's moves with a number value beside it. The higher the number, the more likely the AI is to use that move. I assume the "?" appears because the AI can't choose a move because they are all ranked too low. After several fights, this won't happen anymore.

    Another tip. Most of the time the AI doesn't recognize the context of the move it did. It's just asking if that's a good move to do often or not. So don't press "no" just because the AI happened to get hit that time, if you want it to do that move in the future. The only exception seems to be float combos. If they get it wrong, press "no" otherwise they'll keep doing it.

    <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

    So far I've been able to improve my AI char a little bit, but he is still pretty retarded. Some things he still cant pick up. Like sometimes he still just sits there, not doing anything, and looks clueless, even though he knows many moves and pulls them off at different times. Another thing, I dont understand how to teach him WHEN to do something, like a good attack for the beginning of a match, or when to counter and use reversals. Also, even though attacks are easy to teach by showing him in sparring, how do i show him the most important thing of all, defense? In sparring I will always block everything he throws back at me, so maybe he could learn that but he still lacks defensive skills.

    <hr></blockquote>
    You can't really teach it what to do in certain situations. It learns certain things like blocking and getting up on its own. The more it fights the better it learns to block. The same goes for throw escapes. You can't teach it, it learns by itself. Just encourage it if it escapes. As for reversals, the best way is to use replays. Find or make a replay of your character using reversals and encourage it to do so by pressing "yes."
     
  11. PreyTaker

    PreyTaker New Member

    In sparring I taught my Shun AI to do a Tenshin Souko into a throw from the back. In fighting he just does the Tenshin Souko, (which is awfully useless on it's own) and doesn't follow it with anything, instead just stands there right behind the opponent doing nothing.

    Someone said something about Arcade mode. I have a question about your difficulty level. Does it affect and AI? and What difficulty do you have it at?
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I was wondering if you could fight your A.I. character as a Kumite opponent and if so how do you make it possible?
     
  13. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    Sure, just go into vs. mode and load up your AI character on one side then choose your character on the other side. If you want to use your kumite character and have only one memory card, after loading in the AI character, remove the card and move it to the other slot, then load in your kumite character. Similarly, you could have two player created AI's face off in vs. mode too.
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I meant if I could fight against my A.I. character in Kumite mode, not as my A.I. Character.
     
  15. Robyrt

    Robyrt Well-Known Member

    Exactly. Load up your character as player 1, switch the memory card to slot 2, load up your AI as player 2, start fighting as player 1. Your AI can fight without your input, you know /versus/images/icons/wink.gif
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    In Kumite Mode?
     
  17. Shundi_05

    Shundi_05 Well-Known Member

    Hm.....

    I think what they are trying to say is in the versus mode. Don't think it is possible to fight against your A.I character in the kumite mode. I don't think that the game is so advanced until it is able to self-program in new characters which are created by the user. /versus/images/icons/frown.gif /versus/images/icons/frown.gif /versus/images/icons/frown.gif
     
  18. Alx

    Alx Member

    I have another question about the AI.
    I noticed that the AI character can learn moves or techniques during a fight against a similar character (Shun Vs another Shun, Lau Vs Lau etc. ).
    But it doesn't always happen, sometimes it's fighting like against any other character. What's the reason why he would sometimes learn and sometimes he won't ?
     

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