A QUESTION FOR ALL OF YOU ....

IVE BEEN ON THIS SITE FOR MABE 2 WEEKS NOW....BEEN PLAYING VF SINCE PART 2....AND HAVE ONLY PLAYED WITH SHUN ...SPARRINGLY USING OTHER CHARACTERS....NOW WHY IS SHUN NOT THAT A POPULAR CHARACTER WITH MOST VF'ERS....JUST A THING OF CURIOSITY...

 

Some ppl consider him weak, I personally like Shun and the drunken fist style. I also suppose that he may not seem cool looking enough. Add a couple of scars here a little tattoo there, you know give him a lil' makeover and sky's the limit.

 

Personally, I like his style and character but I find that he looks too boring. Change the clothing and exaggerate his look a bit and he'll probably be more popular.

 

his move list and effective style are difficult for new players, and not impressive enough for expert players is my opinion. altho i am a shun player and i love him. sexually.

 

To be honest I think Shun has quite a decent representation amongst players. Amongst people I have played, I'd say that Shun has more dedicated players than Jeffery, Aoi, Sarah, Vanessa, and Pai. Just from my own experiences.

Oh. Lose the all-caps. /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

Reason i ask is because whenever i read whatever information about shun most players make comments either he's weak or too hard to use...i played vf 1 and did not like it at all aside from akira...up until vf2 and i fell in love ..to be honest...in the right hands this guy can be unstoppable....drunk or not....thanks for your replies thought i was alone there for a min

 

I think its the majour fact that most people beleive he needs 10 or above drinks to become aggressive enough. A while back I gave shun a try, I found him to be just too...fustrating? Lacking speed perhaps, I'm sure if shun took a few tips from this self-help video he'd make top-tier. http://www.nosdivertimos.com/humor/animados/alcohol.html

 

i've been using shun as my primary character for ages and though i usually switch to learn or use other characters i almost always come back to shun. i guess he's the character i'm most comfortable with now even though i'd like to use other characters as my first choices.

as for shun representation i think its pretty decent as well. its probably never going to be better then the Ak/Kag/Lau/Jac's but its still pretty good and there are definitely dedicated shun players on this site. there are even two rather large shun threads in the strategy forums where i'd be happy able to help you out with strats and stuff if you have any particular questions.

as for shun being weak, well its common opinion here that shun was probably at his weakest in VF4 ver.C, something i agree with since i stuck with him throughout that version as well. in Evo however i think he's great and is quite capable of dealing with every character. the only thing i found a little appalling is that akira is capable of taking of 5dps of of shun easily after winning a round, which is a little unfair considering how difficult it is to gain dps against him in the first place.

if i have any complaints regarding shun its that its very hard, if not impossible to utilize all his flashy stuff in a competitive atmosphere. he has a ton of moves and is capable of being extremely stylish, but a lot of his moves, including all his stances aren't capable of being used practically with any level of consistency.

additionally while i think shun's chouwan is an amazing move (standalone, its one of the best moves in the game bar-none), i don't like the fact that after you go beyond an intermediate level of play, it overshadows a lot of shuns other moves. backdash chouwan is one of, if not shuns most powerful strategies and applicable in a ton of situations while guaranteeing you complete safety even on block and excellent damage on hit. while i think this is great in itself and being a shun player i'm probably insane for suggesting this but i wouldn't mind it if they toned DOWN the chouwan while toning up his other moves (of course idealy for shun players the chouwan would stay the way it is and his other moves would get improved but i doubt AM2's that stupid /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif). case in point: for starting shun players, his functions as a better whiif punisher initially but once you learn how to do backdash chouwan there's literally never a need to use that move anymore. similarly there's not much point in using a move like + when you can just use + instead (look at the frame stats and you'll understand why). additionally some of shuns moves are all but useless (+,, ++, BT +,, his ++ sabaki, ++, all his stances, etc).

i'm not asking any of these moves to be overpowered or anything but i would like them to get slightly tweaked to the point where they CAN be used in a practical match. an example of this would be moves like kage's + or +. obviously these moves aren't critical to having an effective kage but they are definitely usable and can be implemented into your gamestyle depending on how the person wants to play kage. i'd like shuns moves to be tweaked in a similar fashion so that while they may not affect his overall gamestyle that much, they are able to be used in order to make your shun more versatile/stylish without comprimising practicality/effectiveness. lion and kage are two excellent examples of these types of characters and i'm hoping AM2 gives shun the same attention to detail before they start giving him new moves. hell i'm only saying this because i'm a shun fanboy really but i think it'd be great if they could do that for every character /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

 

Thanks for the insight Danniboy....a few comments on sum things you said though cat.... if im not mistaken i thinking you are refering to the chowan uppercut .....if so it would be wrong to dumb it down its not a very powerful move....its a combo starter...also you stated his [+ is useless? heres a scenerio.....I knock down my opponent character not important....now in mind i see him/ her doing a low attack ...so i do the + and get'em high...always useful, moreso against a character like wolf thats what i find anyway.....You can be stylish with shun at all times if you know how to play...the drunken stances is a perfect example....time an opponents attack and depending on wether he/ she is coming from the left or right you move to the opposit..leaving him/ her open...his ++ is also a move thats very useful..its a stagger if blocked and does damge if it connects ...goes through hi kicks and punches....and if evaded...jus roll out the way...damn I LOVE SHUN....im realizing ...no disrespect intended, youve not really seen the usefulness of his moves, those youve listed....the [++ is one of his best defensive moves.....again your opponent blocks a move or you miss....depending how many dps you have recover and do the move....most notably when the opponent sweeps...I could go on and on about how good this character is ...in think you should go back and study him more

 

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DanniBoySmith said:
+,.......i would like them to get slightly tweaked to the point where they CAN be used in a practical match.

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DREADLOCKSHUN said:
+ is useless?

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I think he was saying the followup to + is useless, not + itself. Of course, I am only speculating, because I cannot imagine someone saying + is useless when it's clearly one of Shun's best moves.

 

i've been playing shun since vf4 came out. believe me i've tried to find useful applications of the moves i mentioned but have come up empty so far. i'll try and specify in detail why i mentioned some of the moves i did as being semi-useless and go over some of your other points:

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DREADLOCKSHUN said:
if im not mistaken i thinking you are refering to the chowan uppercut .....if so it would be wrong to dumb it down its not a very powerful move....its a combo starter

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i totally disagree with you here. chouwan as a standalone move is without a doubt one of the best in the game. yes of course its a combo starter but its a combo starter with almost no disadvantage! find me ANY other launcher in the game with frame stats as good as the chouwan. additionally chouwan even has a canned followup you get at 6dps which will hit people if they dodge the chouwan itself and try to attack you immediately (a very common occurence). to top all that off shun has an 11 frame attack (+) which will outprioritize every attack after the chouwan is blocked except standing jabs and +'s (both of which shun has great ways around).

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...also you stated his [+ is useless? heres a scenerio.....I knock down my opponent character not important....now in mind i see him/ her doing a low attack ...so i do the + and get'em high...always useful, moreso against a character like wolf thats what i find anyway

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sorry maybe i should have been more clear here but i thought it would be obvious to a hardcore shun player /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif, but dandy cleared it up for me. i meant the followup to + which is the that follows. reasons for me mentioning this move should be obvious. its so slow in coming out that it gives your opponent all day to interrupt or dodge it regardless of whether the + was initially blocked, hit or CH.

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.....You can be stylish with shun at all times if you know how to play...the drunken stances is a perfect example....time an opponents attack and depending on wether he/ she is coming from the left or right you move to the opposit..leaving him/ her open

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you actually beat me to the punch here /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif because i was planning on editing my post and putting in a mention that his drunken stance is the exception to his otherwise somewhat useless stances. there are definitely opportunities to use this in a match, you're right /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

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...his ++ is also a move thats very useful..its a stagger if blocked and does damge if it connects ...goes through hi kicks and punches....and if evaded...jus roll out the way

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if your opponents are letting you get away with this move, then they aren't taking full advantage of the situation. if this move is blocked (which is usually the case for me), then your opponent can usually recover from the stagger fast enough to force a guessing game on you! thats how badly it recovers (test it out with a friend if you don't believe me). if i'm going to be sacrificing a dp, it shouldn't be to lose initiative and hand my opponent the advantage you know! if you're in a position to connect this move, there are far better choices available to you IMO (as a long range weapon i prefer ,+ far more and feel it has way more pros then the ++).

the only use i have for this move is to occasionally force a ring out from far away if my opponent is close to the edge (the dash buffer also helps to screw up their dodge timing).

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++ is one of his best defensive moves.....again your opponent blocks a move or you miss....depending how many dps you have recover and do the move....most notably when the opponent sweeps...I could go on and on about how good this character is ...in think you should go back and study him more

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the same situation applies here. if i'm going to be sacrificing a drink, i'd like it to be for a move that provides a better reward then the alternatives available to me which are IMO, not only better but don't cost me any drinks and give me far more initiative. the alternatives in this case (for me at least) would be shuns backdash chouwan or + or |+++,. the backdash chouwan always offers the best rewards in terms of damage, the + is one of the best evasive moves in the game and in my experience, evades many more moves overall. finally i shouldn't need to mention the usefulness and annoyance factor of his backevade into slap.

i think this discussion would take a more productive turn if you could provide me with examples of in game scenarios where i can use the moves i regarded as useless in a proper match (and by that i mean a serious match, not just casual play). we can discuss this further if you like. i always enjoy talking about shun and we might learn a lot this way /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

 

Nah ...I dont think the follow up is useless...again you have to know when to use certain moves...I use it whenever theres an opening or if the + misses than I'll follow up with the ..As far as tweeks...Id say just a little bit more speed...not to much...I noticed earlier today...with 5 dps for my use anyway his speed is good...recovery time is alot better...i tend not to rely on drinking so much ...an ass can be kicked much quicker if alcohol is depended upon

 

i didnt even realize there was a second page...i thought i made the second....leme read wat you got.....

 

I see said the grasshoppa... you got me on a few points there....you are right about the follow up....i completely forgot about the canned follow....i see now why it should be dumbed down....like you said if the chouwan doesnt connect you can catch with the canned follow if you have the dps of course...but still get em with the +...now in alot of fights ive had against hardcore players around the hood....ive used the follow after the +...a senerio is wat you asked...a fight i remember having....my friend was using akira.....he had almost got me with the spod ..he missed the second command...he tried to grab me for a throw...gave him a +...it was blocked....now try this in the free train mode....after the attack is blocked when you input the follow up....notice the height at which shun is....just enough to go underneath a high p or k....and in most of my experiances if i red them right most go high....with that follow up your going low...again its for high attacks...in some cases its a good attack when timed against an incoming attack...jus speaking from my own experiances...forgive my lack of terminolgy...never really got into discussions about vf..but try that out see if it works....now with the ....i should have been clear...and you said it for me....bcuz of higher difficulty i like to force opps out of the ring...this is why i stated it was a good move...in that sense i wouldnt say its useless...it has its uses in certain situations such as forcing the opp out .... as for the [G i realized as i was playing i misstook it for ...so apologize for the confusion.....and its an absolute we should continue this discusions...each one teach one ya dig.....writing this im telling myself sega needs to bring this game online in some form ...can you imagine the magnitude of Virtua Fighting that would take place...people would lose there homes jobs wives for the competion i think turn white for being inside so long....damn wat a thought

 

Is there a meaning behind all the (....) after every phrase ?

 

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he had almost got me with the spod ..he missed the second command...he tried to grab me for a throw...gave him a +...it was blocked

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No offense, but I don't think your Akira player opponent is all that hardcore. After he hits you with a missed SPoD, why the heck was he trying to throw you? He's at -11 and should be blocking, or throw escaping, imo. After he now whiffs his throw attempt, you try and + him? Of course it's blocked, it's a 17 frame attack. And then you do the follow-up punch? An 45 frame attack? Let me say that again. A *45* frame attack? I find it hard to believe that his punch completely whiffs and Shun sneaks in with the hit. Besides, most players after blocking + will low punch or dodge or move away in anticipation of a second +.

I think it's time to find better competition in NYC. There's plenty there, but I don't think you've found it yet.

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

Sorry mate, but the boys are right... +,, is 98% of the time gonna get you reemed!

And if anyone can find a less usefull move than the drunken walk, I'd be impressed! I execute the drunken walk if I have to go to the bathroom... by the time I'm back I'm either KO'ed or Shun just finished the step.
Might as well I mention the Drunken Elbow combo... It's a lovely move! It leaves you in drunken stance so your opponent (if you somehow managed to hit him) can TR and procede to pound the snot out of you...

Game on,
Cuz

 

if you knock them down with u|d+p+k+g,pp then tap g to cancel drunken stance and roll away from backturned. or just slowly bacturned walk. i tend to just use the first p and sometimes throw the second. shun is pretty good BT so getting stuck in ds inst bad unless they block it then your gonna get reamed. All his stances are atleast semi useful mainly from distance occasionally up close. shuns most useless moves are handstand k+g and ff+p+k. everything else has its uses limited as they may be.

 

Ok so you may be right about the Drunken Elbow combo, but you have to admit that you crindge every time you see Shun goin' in his Drunken Walk! /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Pe'ce,
Cuz

 

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Hayai_JiJi said:
shuns most useless moves are handstand k+g and ff+p+k. everything else has its uses limited as they may be.


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i find both of these semi useful. handstand + is like a mulekick that leaves you advantage on block, and doesnt combo on normal hit, and is great near the end of a match as a fast mid that most oponents will not capitilize on.