A win is a win?

Playing last night I won 8/9 online ranking matches BUT I was playing differently than I normally would play. The normal way I loose 6/9 matches. The difference is that when I try and play more technically and more like the correct way (doing things I see in the videos) then I loose. I get angry with people that just don't play the way I think they should.
Is it bad to play to win and being a bit scrubby?

I think I may have two different types of style now. Scrubby for most players and more technical for higher ranks (where it seems to be easier for me to use my better tech game).

Any advice?

 

I have 2 different styles too, one is troll, other is legit. Both win games.

If you're winning, it's up to your opponent to adapt because nothing is really broken in this game. Just a fair warning though, when you're playing "scrubby" style don't let it develop bad habits for you down the road and affect your technical game. In my case, I'm self-aware of my other playstyle and don't let it make me a worst player overall. If you can handle that then by all means go for it.

Oh, and I respect all opinions on this topic! ^_^

 

I think everyone has two styles, except those who started playing very recently.

 

Agreed.

Though FS isn't my first VF game, it is my first game I've taken seriously and more competitively so certain habits are a bit hard to break (though in all honesty I don't think I'm doing too bad now) But when you come across a low ranking player who is just out right "scrubby" then habits are hard to break and I end up just doing what I can to win! lol

Right now my main focus is to play to win and to look good doing it! I'll worry about juggles and strings when I become more accustomed to this way of playing VF.

 

Cool I think it took alot of games to get to this stage. Now to incorporate some teckers into both styles (juggles etc).

 

I think doing stuff that the opponent keeps eating is not a scrubby way to play. Neither is abare when you know what you are doing.

Playing on autopilot or developing 'bad habits' on the other hand IS a wrong way to play. ^^

 

Nothing except lags

No, I definitely agree. There is no point in forcing for example basic elbow/throw nitaku vs low lvl scrubs. It is not nitaku vs them, in fact. With elbow, you get MC 24/7. With throw, you get punch in your face 24/7.
...
With my friend, we start calling this version of nitaku as "ichtaku" Applying ichtaku on low level is simple way how to win... Unless you lag

 

Ya, for some reason I always drop basic combos with Jacky online when I run into a person who is patient and plays slow. My whole rythm is off and it works. I have to stop and think about my aproach with risk and reward involved. I want so badly to use the advanced mix up technical stuff, but I need to work on the basic stuff. Mainly if I get caught by a patient and slower opponent I need to work on realing it in and thinks about basic punishers. I love VF!!

 

I just use super basic stuff against these kinds of players.

 

We were all low lvl scrubs at some point (and some of us still are I guess).

We can sound so elitist sometimes. The right way, vs the wrong way, high lvl play vs low lvl play.

I've been playing my share of all kind of ppl in ranked mode, about 800 fights now. This is what I've learned (being new to online for VF) PPL who are very concerned with winning, bring what they know or remember how to do under pressure.

I played a guy only had two move sequences worked out, he did them over and over whether it worked or not. That was the best this guy could do under the pressure of winning. Is he a low lvl scrub? I dunno (what does that mean?)

I played a guy with Raider rank, He wanted the Barbarian rank so bad and was so afraid to lose his Raider points, that he used what I would call advanced spam repetitive, guaranteed, but required a fair amount of VF knowledge to pull off. This guy would have never played like this, if it werent for the Rank invovled or the the loss of points. Is he high lvl player I dunno (what does that mean?)

For a lot of players winning is everything, and they do what ever they can to win. If there was a guaranteed win button, this type of player would push it as soon as the announcer said go. If this kind of player could win every round with the first punch or kick of the round they would do it, all the way up to DarkSlayer, or whatever top rank is. Whatever works as long as they can do it under the pressure of winning. That's what most ppl do.

Pleez 4 give MasterPo for this Philosophical BS to follow:

Is a win a win though? If you found 2 5-hit combos that seem to work on virtually everybody online, and you do them over, and over and over again, and you win 98% of the time with them so you use them all the way up to DarkSlayer, or whatever top rank is, are you a winner, what did you win? I mean after all those were legitimate combos, if the move is in the movelist its a fair move right? You now have your rank but did you really win anything? Are you a high lvl player now? Is the difference between you and the low lvl scrub that you win with your spam while he loses with his?

I fought and lost to a 4th Dan last night maybe 3 or 4 times in
a row. Here's the deal, I knew what his weakness was, I could have beat him at any time, but I was curious how he was able to
uniquely get away from some of my attacks. He was using Kage in a fairly innovative way I hadn't seen before. Sure there were som big holes in his defense, I could have exploited, but I wanted to see what this person was trying to say with Kage.
So for the 3 or 4 fights I enjoyed a new interpretation of Kage (at least an interpretation I have never seen before).
Yes I lost the fights, but I felt I like I won something too.

Here's what I won: After fighting so many Kages in my time, I
saw someone bring something totally new, and he gave me a whole new perspective on the game. Yes his style had some weaknesses,
some easily exploitable, but, it was a new style and maybe with
some extra thought, it could be made bullit proof. So his new approach inspired me to try some new things. So although I lost, I won! The three or four matches we played were enjoyable. I could have blew right past this guy (with my own version of spam) and added another win to my win column. But that win would have been a loss, because I would have missed out on this cats eccentric Kage.

I know, I know, this is a fighting game, and all we want to do
is win, win, win,win, when we walk into the building put your hands in the air and holla win. Here, are some old words my friends, "its not whether you win or lose, its how you play the game"

This Kage player I played, only had a few moves under his belt, but he used them with so much pnash. It was clear that he was a new player, but it felt like to me, he was there to play the game, not necessarily to win, not necessarily to lose, but to play. AFAIC even though he was only 4th Dan, and possibly new to VF, he had the spirit, or the heart of a high level player.

Is winning at all cost a win when you're playing a fighting game? Its a fighting game, every match there is going to be a winner and a loser, that's the name of the game. But what makes the fighting game fun? Again, if there was such a thing as a win button and the winner was the person that was able to push it first after the starting bell, that would be a boring fighting game.

What really makes a fighting game fun is what takes place between beginning bell and the last round. Did both players really bring it? Were you able to pull off the moves you've been working on in the Dojo? Do you feel vindicated for picking the fighter you have over the other fighters? Did your customization look in action as cool as you though it would?
Did you and your opponent truly challenge each other's full skill set? Were the matches close? (who like a blow out?)
Did you learn anything new during the match? Did you see anything new during the match? Did you verify something you've learned during the match? Even if you loss did you make your opponent work hard for the win? Did you an your opponent enjoy the match? Did you teach each other something? AFAIC the answer to these questions determined whether you really won something or not.

You could have the highest Rank and best Win/Loss ratio and still be the biggest loser with no idea what VF is really all about.

TBH, maybe we should drop referring to other players as low lvl scrubs or to ourselves as high lvl players.

That shit is all relative. I don't care who you are, or how good you think you can play, you can be somebody's byatch. There is somebody out there that can make you look like a high level player and somebody out there that can make you look like a so-called low level player.

I think what sets Virtua Fighter apart from the other fighting games is its deepness, style, elegance and beauty. I think a win has taken place when we get to see that in a match, regardless of the statistics of the fighters involved. And getting the highest score, with the highest rank, by any means necessary is not the same thing as winning, in VF you truly have to stop to smell the roses

 

Enough said I agree completely

 

Well, this is not about elitism or something.
Not every low level player is "low lvl scrub." Many are, tough.
...
The difference is simple: so called "scrubs" do NOT think about the game. They just mash some buttons. Nothing, NOTHING more. You can distinguish them easily: just run into them mash 2_P over and over again. No delay. If you get more that 3 MCs in a row, then you see one of this "scrubs".
Anyone, who is thinking while playing this game, will try to do something reasonable in such situation. Guard. Jump. Evade. Backdash. Anything other that PPPPPPPPPPPPP. There are tons of such players. If you watch their game, you can see they are honestly trying. They are not good, but they are not scrubs for sure.
Scrubs just mash that PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPK over and over again. And if you beat them with 3 rounds of 2Ping into MC solely (and yes, it happen to me once), you get hate mail about how cheap is your play. Well... Maybe it was. But I love yellow sparkles. Besides, I was sitting there with friend of my. And while the gameplay was cheap, the laugh was priceless

 

Anyway, master po, about your long post. It is great post and it reminds me one story about my T4 days. There is a lot of true in what you post and I like it, so pls forgive me I wish to share this story It is long one, but I am trying to remember it every time I start carying about winning too much

Basically, when i started Tekken 4, it was because it ws only FG in my country with decent (and damn active) community. I picked Christie, because she was fun to play and nice to watch. I did not care about tiers (she was damn low), I just picked her and start learning the game as hard as I was able to do.
One year later. I was one of the best players in my country at that time. Maybe the bets one, dunno. I did not care, I was enjoying the game.
Then the largest T4 tourney in my country history comes. It was pretty small in terms of what you know from USA or so (about 70 or 80 people), but it was HUGE for us.
It started in basic groups (our format is - 8 "core" groups, everyone is advancing. The groups are not made randomly, but in such way, there are equally top, low and mediocre players spread; and that people from one team are not in the same group. The point is to attact beginners, so even they will play a lot on tourney. After that, normal double elimination comes). There was about 9 or 10 games to be played in the groups. What counts is the number or ROUNDS you win (do not ask me, was not mine system )
While every single "top" player in every group win his group like 60/5 or so, I won about 60/35. I lost few round against every single player in my group. Everyone was like WTF, how come? It was simple - I was enjoying the game and I was trying to offer the some to my opponents. I was showing them some flashy stuff. I was showing them some basic tactics. I get my 6 point from every game, so why not to give my opponents some fun for exchange? For me, it was normal. For other so called "top" players, they do not understand.
...
Then the elimination came. I easily go through 1st and 2nd round. In 3rd round, my opponent was one player with damn big ego, while damn mediocre skills. I start winning, and he start horribly trashtalking. There was a "bitch" after every of my attacks, "assfuck" after every of my throws and "eat shit" whenever he manage to hit me. The bracket was best-of-7. I was winning 2-0 on matches and 2-0 on rounds in the 3rd one. His vocabulary turned even worst. In that moment, I stand up, uplug my stick and walk away. People asked me what am I doing. "Leaving," I tell them. "I do not wish to play under such conditions." Organizator asked me to go back and play. "He won. I will not play him, no matter what." Noone seems to be able to accept basic fact I will not play with someone like this. It was a tourney, after all...

The looser bracket was tough, but I manage to go to the looser finals. Against one of our players who claimed back there he is the best one. I will not go into details - there was 4 great matches and I manage to defeat him with style. Then the finals come and I loose, because I was too tired to concentrate (I played damn a lot tournament matches + about 200 friendlies that day).
Anyway, here the main part of the story comes. I won 1st finals, looseing the second one. I asked to delay them because I am tired as hell, but it was not possible. But the winner was great player tough and he deserved the win for sure.
Just after we finished, the player I defeated in looser finals came to me and challenge me to "1st to 10." I refuse, because I was tired, but he insist. Finnaly, I agree.
We start playing then. I do not remember much from that games, I was half sleeping through them. Then, friend of my opponent appears asking if we are going with others to pub. "In a minute," answered that player. "I am easily winning 9-3. Last round of last match only remains. I told everyone he beats me only with luck and this is the proof."
What?? That makes me angry. Damn angry. I was not playing to my best. I was not playing even good. And he is using it as proof he is better then me?
For the 1st time in FG environment, I was really pissed off. I decide I will show him. There was few special tricks in my sleeve...
One hour later, that friend came again. "Are you going finnaly!?!" ... We where. Score was 16-9 for me. He did not win single round since he tell what he tell. I beat him to the ground with the most effective (and most boring) stuff Chrstie had.

Later that night, that guy came to me and asked me, why I was not playing like that on tourney. "That strategy is awesome. There is no weak point in it." I think for a while and then answer "Because it is not fun to play like this. It is horribly boring." "But on tourney?" ... "It is still not funny, tourney or not." He did not understand. I consider that shame, because he was player with great potential.
...
And this is my story. I warn you it will be long But as I stated, I am trying to remember it whenever I start care too much about winning. Because that day back there, I learned big lesson. Because no matter I make myself satisfied while beating that guy, I had no fun. I lost 1 hour of my life boring myself (and him) to death only in order to prove some stupid thing I do not care that much about, in fact. And I get nothing in exchange.

and now I am really sorry for this horribly long post with, in fact, 0 value

 

Thanks unicorn for sharing this story. it was really entertaining! I wish people wrote more often about their personal stories about games!

 

@ Unicorn:
Well, if there's no cash prize, or if it was such a small prize it didn't really matter to you, then I can understand your "play for fun in a tourney" mentality. If no (serious) money was involved, then this is just a video game.

@ scrubbing out online:
I'm beginning to reach the limitation of fun in random online ranked matches. Because the best I ever get is 2 bars, and 95% of the time it's 0-1 bar.
That means, all the training I do in the dojo goes out the window. Because the second my brain detects slight lag in the game, my fingers start mashing and forget all the timing I trained for.
I need 3-bar games to rise higher in skill...

 

Not all wins are equal.

A win over a high-ranked opponent is worth more than a win over a low-ranked opponent.

I find that it is very difficult use complicated strategy against someone who is using no real strategy at all, for instance someone who is alternating between PPPKKK and PPPP strings. If you face someone like that then thinking too much and defending against the complex maneuver will just get you damaged by something simple.

On a slightly different angle to the question. I find that it is often worth losing a round to convey a message to my opponent, especially when I face someone of a significantly higher rank than I have.

For instance, in the first round I may do three times. A high-ranked player with a somewhat elitist mentality, like some in this thread, will instantly think scrub who spams that string. It may cost me a round but what it does is guarantees that in at least on situation I can get my opponent to crouch right in front of me for the I find that having the ability to do that is often worth losing the round to set it up. I'm already fighting uphill, I'll take every advantage that I can get.

The topic "is a win a win." The answer is "No" not all wins are equal. But I can also say that not all losses are equal either.

 

I am not playing the game for living. I have (and I had back there as well) job which provides me with enough money to live decently. So nope, I will never take any fighting game to THIS level of seriousness.
But I know way too much players who do this, no matter the price.

 

PS: I am not playing online so much right now because life seems to have become so busy these days! I'm happy that things are like this, i used to be obsessed with VF and VFDC to the point that instead of working I would be in the shoubox all the time.

But, long story short, I am looking forward to the next time I can meet everybody again offline, no matter how rusty I will be. VF is about spending time with good people, I will always remember ZeroEX house packed with people to the brim. I am not so keen on playing randoms online these days, after doing it for so long with vanilla.

 

I gotta say that was an interesting read.

 

it doesn't have zero value. that was a terrific story. good on you for playing for the right reasons and not throwing a tantrum like that childish punk you played in the tournament.