all Pai players...pls read..

Discussion in 'Pai' started by 22222, Mar 10, 2002.

  1. 22222

    22222 Active Member

    can any1 tell me how to u do inashi? i mean....do u have to do it b4 the opp hits u or when it is abt to hit....same fer reversal.....kinda confusing,,,is there a specific timing...and how do u know if the move is a high or middle one???
     
  2. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    inashi and reversal timing are like this -
    you must press the buttons AFTER the opponent has pushed a button to attack... but BEFORE the attack hits you.

    So if the opponent does a punch, the reversal timing is tough, a punch takes twelve frames to connect, so you have 12 frames (1/5th of a second) to do the reversal.

    If the opponent does a slow 20 frame attack, you have a 20 frame window to enter reversal motion (b+PK or d/b+PK or f+PK)

    Generally, since attacks happen fast, you can only reverse if you know the opponent's move is coming, you can't do it on reflex. I try to press the buttons for a reversal at the same time the opponent presses the button to attack me.

    To tell if the move is a high or middle one is easy: if the move goes over your head when you crouch, then it's high. If it still hits you even when you're ducking, it hits middle.
     
  3. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    Best way to use reversals IMO is to learn what attacks you have that are uncounterable by strike attacks. That is moves that when they are blocked by your opponent allow you to block any counter attack they may choose. Instead of choosing to block, use a reversal or inashi. The timing isn't that difficult in this case... you'll actually find yourself learning the rhythm of the game.

    Here's a list for Pai:
    (I didn't know it would be so big... I'm just looking at block advantage here and there may be some that aren't correct due to range issues.)

    d+P
    df+P
    df+PP

    df+PPf+P
    f+P
    FC,f+P
    ff+P

    b+P
    df+K
    f+K
    b+K
    ub+K, f+K (wow)
    uf+K
    FC,n+K
    f+K+G

    ff+K+G
    uf+K+G
    K+G
    b+K+G
    P (duh)
    PK
    PP
    PPKK
    PPP
    (not really good here IMO-- most will simply block low expecting a sweep)
    db+P
    f,b+P
    K
    KK
    KPK

    ff+K
    [CE]K
    [CE]K+G
    [CE]K+G,P

    OK, now for the advanced techniques... =)

    Some of these moves are throw counterable--they're the moves I've highlighted. So for them, it's a good time to work on reverse~double throw escape. This will limit your opponent's options the most. Also, instead of reverse/inashi, you could try dodge~double throw escape, which any character can do.

    Depending on the situation, most opponents will counter with a high/low punch or elbow if they're not sure if they're counter attack will hit. So you've got to read your opponent's tendencies and guess either high or mid. For attacks that are only throw counterable, however, if your opponent doesn't go for the "guaranteed" throw counter he most likely will try a mid-level float launcher like a knee. This is your best chance to land reversals IMO.

    Also, something I've had fun with is using Pai's mid-level inashi vs. Akira's rising kick. The timing isn't that difficult.
     
  4. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    You pretty sure on all of these?
    I'm kind of shocked that f+K+G or f,f+P are strike uncounterable.
    And PPKK just has to be.

    If your math crunching is correct, maybe Rich has a point. The risk/reward is out of whack.
     
  5. a_l_e_x

    a_l_e_x Active Member

    inashi and reversal timing are like this -
    you must press the buttons AFTER the opponent has pushed a button to attack... but BEFORE the attack hits you.


    and the execution for reversal just take 1 frame to happen, so it should be easy to reverse slow move on reflex... yet I tried to reverse Lei's d+P+K+G, P+K many times but failed. Does a charged move affect reversal in anyway?
    Also, to reverse Lei's sabaki(don't know the command, the move which from back facing position, he turn around and punch you causing KD), I think you have to reverse late, right before he hit you. I tried reversing it when I saw his hand movement, but my reversal whiffed...
     
  6. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    that lei attack is weird.. I noticed the hand movement happens way before the actual strike.. does that mean it takes like an entire second to execute, or is the hand movement considered... what? I dunno.

    Anyway, reversing on reflex is HARD. Ppl think it sounds easy, but a slow move in VF is like.. what, 20 frames? That's 1/5th of a second. Not so simple.
    I never get reversals unless I knew what the opponent was going to do.
     
  7. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    Above the list I added the disclaimer that I was simply looking at block stun disadvantage. I scanned thru the movelist quick and did not experiment to check any of it. I've played maybe 20 games with Pai in VF4 at the arcade... I'm not an expert on her. I'm pretty sure a couple aren't throw counterable because of range issues after you block them, but if the VP movelist is right, f+K+G and ff+P can only be countered with a throw... it *is* weird / non-intuitive. I will try to follow-up on this when I get a hold of my own copy of PS2 VF4.
     
  8. 22222

    22222 Active Member

    okie....so basically u do a guessing game whether he strilkes high or low..but i cant reverse kages moves....no matter wat it ry.. is it because his moves are faster???
    btw..any1 has any idea how to do pai's throw ..where she hooks her opponents arm and flings it to the opp side....where i think causes a stun....and plp usually try to stun again by d/f and k then throw...any idea ??? thks....
    is it better to reverse or inashi???? any comments????
     
  9. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    Kage's attacks are mostly mid level--the chops and his heel kick. You'll have to block or dodge the turn away sweep. Pai cannot reverse it.

    I think the throw you want is the stumbling trip: b,d+P+G.
    Hmm... maybe its the 270 throw:
    d>f>u>b+P+G or u>f>d>b+P+G

    I like the mind games that the staggers created by inashi initiate. They hurt your opponent's psyche more IMO, and the damage potential is higher... Try to read your opponent... most will turtle up after being inashied. You simply have to guess if they will block high or low. If you expect them to be standing, dash in and throw. If your opponent likes to crouch and defend when the pressure is on, then side kick stagger or uf+K into flow chart. I've asked about Pai's insashis before, there are a few guaranteed followups depending on what attack was inashied. Search the forum for the specifics.
     
  10. 22222

    22222 Active Member

    thr throw b,d+p and g .....when u move in...u press f then when u try to throw...do u have to press g to cancel the forward motion..??? otherwise will it seem to the computer as f , b,d+p+g??? btw..any comments on how pai can hop over anopponent and in wat situation can this be done???
    does the command u or d+p+k block grd attacks if ur opponent is rising and ur near him??
    thanks
    ps= any idea how f,f+k+g can be incoporated into a move?? mostly....i find it uselesss as the animation is too long....and plp can duck....
     
  11. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    I don't think you need to tap guard to dash and then do b,d+P+G.
    f,b,d+P+G isn't a throw of pai's so the CPU should just think it's the stumble throw.
    Also b,d+P+G needs you to return to neutral between b and d.


    To hop over an opponent use u/f+K. It works easily in most situations. Try it twice in a row to make sure. It's easier if the opponent is knocked down sideways, like after pai's P+G throw.

    u+P+K and d+P+K are called reversals by many ppl, but they're basically like attacks... remember d/f+K+E in VF3, the 3-D sidekicks? That's what u+P+K and d+P+K do.
    If the opponent gets hit, it's only because they moved to the side or you hit an attack that moves sideways. Since the rising attacks don't really do that, I don't think u+P+K or d+P+K will work.

    f,f+K+G is worthless, too bad /versus/images/icons/frown.gif
     
  12. 22222

    22222 Active Member

    can pai's f,b+p block mid attacks.?? btw pai cannot reverse or inashi jefferys attack isit...where he swings both his arms in a downward then upwardmotion...how can i noe whether pai can inashi an attack ornot?? N btw the attack b,d+p+g then using d/f k, the last kick must be done b4 the opponent stands fully isit??? to ensure a stun???
     
  13. a_l_e_x

    a_l_e_x Active Member

    Pai's f,b+P is a Sabaki against high punch, high kick, middle punch, middle kick, and elbow. Heard it sabakis knee as well in ver. C.

    To know if Pai can inashi/reverse a move or not, first check out the inashi/reverse section in her movelist from this site or virtualproject(a bit more complete). for example her mid reversal d/b+P+K reverse kk, mk, mp, sk, me. So it can reverse knee, mid kick, mid punch, side kick, elbow, but not kickflip, Crescent, or Somersault. Then, check out opponent's move list, there's a column 'Rev' tells how a move should be reversed. e.g, Jacky's Beat Knuckle P+K can be reversed as mp(mid punch).

    Generally speaking an attack that uses two hands/leg cannot be reversed, like the Jeffry's move you described, or Akira's double palm.

    One question to others, anyone who can reverse Lei's d+P+K+G, P+K consistently? Please share on the timing. Also, can a fully charged move be reverse?
     
  14. 22222

    22222 Active Member

    er..no...i dont think a charged move can be reversed.....nv ever seen it...blocked maybe but not reveresed or inashied...btw....is it true that if a move can be reversed it can also be inashied?????
     
  15. Jason Cha

    Jason Cha Well-Known Member

    <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


    er..no...i dont think a charged move can be reversed.....nv ever seen it...blocked maybe but not reveresed or inashied...btw....is it true that if a move can be reversed it can also be inashied?????


    <hr></blockquote>

    Both your statements are wrong. Perhaps you should try spending some time learning the game before posting?

    -Jason
     
  16. LittleWild

    LittleWild Well-Known Member

    Some charged move can be reversed and/or inashied. eg. LeiFei's arrow punch.

    Inashi and reversals are different things, so don't try to group them together and confuse yourself.
     
  17. gribbly

    gribbly Well-Known Member

    you can't block a (fully) charged move... that's the point of them =]

    grib.
     
  18. 22222

    22222 Active Member

    nono.....i think u misunderstand me...what i mean is....if u inashi a move....does that mean that instead of inashi that move...u could have reversed it???? N are the timings the same fer inashi and reversals?????
     
  19. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    most moves that can be inashi'd can be reversed. I can't think of any that are special, so maybe it's safe to say 'all' moves that can be inashi'd can be reversed.

    so yes, if you could have inashi'd, you could also have reversed.
     
  20. Adio

    Adio Well-Known Member

    So can Kickflips, Sweeps and Crescents be inashi'd then?
     

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