Alright, own up!

>You obviously disagree, and i'd like to get your reasons for it.

missed that. anyway: faster game = less time to react, less time to think. (game tends relies more on dexterity.

pretty simple formula, i think.

--
"A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"

 

"so is "krap" like emils "not the arcade" - with absolutely no explanation."
Here goes...

The truth is I don't prefer one version of the game over another. Right now the DC appeals to me because it is the "gathering standard".

With about 20 players from different cities around NA a standard platform levels the playing field. Imagine if we all played diffent versions with different sticks. Gatherings and tournaments would be unbalanced. Most of the players would feel uncomfortable playing on unfamiliar sticks and versions.
If there is going to be a tournament in North American why on earth would it be on an Arcade TB. Only the Toronto people(+Bungle) have had the Arcade version to practice on. Everyone else would be unfamiliar and unprepared which defeats the purpose of a tournament.

"oop! open mouth -> insert foot. but wait! this is the same machine emil plays on, and he hates the arcade..can there be a connection there? enquiring minds want to know!"

I don't hate anything

-Emil
"not the arcade"

 

"okay. you say everyone plays on the dc with agetec sticks. what did (does) that have to with what owen opined: that the arcade is better [at least, to the those that have played and/or have access to the arcade]?"

Owen wrote "For being one of the rare people having acccess to a TB machine - what are you afraid of? You can argue that VF3tb DC as being a 'different' version of the game but deep down everyone knows the arcade is the real version. VF3tb DC is a replica. It's fun to play and is generally more accessible to a larger audience but it's still a replica and NOT the real game."

I read this over many times and couldn't come up with a good response. I couldn't really figure out what the paragraph meant. So I just tried to respond to his use of the word *real*.

-Emil

 

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

If someone were to construct an Arcade TB with Agetec sticks I would be happy to play it.

<hr></blockquote>

Excellent. This is really what I was trying to get at with my post (as poorly written as it was). The issue is really not the game itself but the sticks, right? Ok...no problem.
Creating Agetech sticks to function with an arcade set-up would not be too difficult and could be something to look into if a tournament was to be held and accomodate all those attending.

My point about the arcade being real is simple to understand. To me, at least, there's something tangible about playing VF3tb the way it was intended to be played - not an interpretation from Genki. They are indeed different games and the differences have been hashed out before and, IMO, I prefer the real thing.

I think the thing that many of the VF3tb arcade fans find difficult to comprehend is that the DC fans aren't all too enthusiastic about having the opportunity to play the arcade, original game. To us, who have both worlds, playing on the DC is great fun, but a chance to go and bash it out on the machine is always greatly welcomed.

Question though (to clarify): if at an event there were no agetech sticks and you had no problems with command input, everything would be ok, right?

cheers,



<font color=white> Llanfair the prized <font color=green>cabbage</font color=green></font color=white>

 

The issue is really not the game itself but the sticks, right?

Right on the point.

At least for me, I have no problem migrating back and borth between DC and Arcade. Agetech sticks, which people keep referring, are the green sticks you can buy for DC, right? They're about the closest to the Japanese sticks I'm used to playing on.

I know it sounds stupid as I was able to play fine on NA-style sticks.

Big question, though, is that Rich will actually volunteer his much treasured arcade unit. If I were him, knowing that many people around it, I'd be worried about someone spilling beer at any moment.

 

quickly..

>With about 20 players from different cities around NA a standard platform levels the playing field.

'cept for those used to the arcade...

>Imagine if we all played diffent versions with different sticks.

i don't think anyone suggested that. my own suggestion was on the one arcade unit, with sticks to fit the player. and actually, i think that would be even more balanced than a bunch of dc's and fucked up agetec sticks, where someone inevitably, as at NYG2, would have a better stick unit than the one he's playing against.

i'd like to take a poll: who here was really, truly satisfied with the sticks at NYG2? (look up the word satisfy before you post...)

--
"A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"

 

missed that. anyway: faster game = less time to react, less time to think. (game tends relies more on dexterity.

Ahhh....But don't you think that for those that actually try to think during the game, practicing on the DC's speed, would make the person in the end a very sharp player - cause they have to not only think, but think quicker?

Absolutely right...we don't have issues with the arcade game at all - just the arcade sticks (even the ones Godeater and crew had made for DC). Again, aside from Giant Swing pick-up and Kage's TFT combo issues, I and quite a few others don't really notice or care for much of the gameplay differences between arcade and DC, so I wouldn't mind playing on the arcade at all with agetec stix - i would love it, in fact!

At NYG2, i was totally comfortable with any non-modified DC sticks.

If this tournament ever happens, i think the various kinds of sticks should be present for players to choose from...end of argument.



<font color=red>ORA! ORA! ORA!</font color=red>

<font color=white>adam</font color=white><font color=red>YUKI</font color=red><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by adamYUKI on 10/8/00 02:06 PM.</FONT></P>

 

truly satisfied with the sticks at NYG2? (look up the word satisfy before you post...)

Truly? No. But since DC sticks are the closest to the Japanese-style sticks (which I learned to play on), I find the DC sticks to be so far the best for playing VF.

Adam writes, "non-modified DC sticks"

Haha...mine is what Emil calls "mutant" joystick. Mind you though, as I modded my sticks to emulate the arcade sticks in Japan. You might as well begin a friendship with "mutant" if you ever want to go to Japan for VF *grin*

 

>I find the DC sticks to be so far the best for playing VF.

even better than japanese arcade sticks?

--
"A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"

 

"Question though (to clarify): if at an event there were no agetech sticks and you had no problems with command input, everything would be ok, right?"

I don't have some sort Agetec fetish.
Of course that would be ok.

-Emil

 

"quickly..
>With about 20 players from different cities around NA a standard platform
levels the playing field.

'cept for those used to the arcade..."

I guess you might have to suffer with easy to execute TFT combos.
What a pissoff that would be.

-Emil

 

>practicing on the DC's speed, would make the person in the end a very sharp player - cause they have to not only think, but think quicker?

you have to think faster and you also have to react faster, pretty much to the point where most normal people have to choose between one or the other - and you won't win if you can think but don't have the time or dexterity to react. the dc cuts it too short. it's not fun. that formula i gave before is pretty inflexible - the human brain and everything it controls has its limits. faster game - less time to think, less time to react.

there may be some freaks of nature who can do it as well on the DC as on the arcade, but...which is better, a version of the game where the majority could think and act on it if they wanted to, or one where it'll likely boil down to who's faster and better wailing out commands, which was all VF2 was at the end?

if i had the time (and lack of life) i'd love to review the nyg tapes and compile how many rounds were lost because of the tft and gs pickup. it's a pretty big number.

--
"A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"

 

emil, as much fun as it was to duck under your punch, and TFT, kn, P, PPK slide you out of the ring with about 27 seconds left on the timer that one time...
shit like that does not belong in the game - it was not intended to be there and should not be there. and you wouldn't be too happy about it, too, i'll bet, if it were a tournament round, would you?

--
"A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"

 

>I don't hate anything
>not the arcade

okay. if you say so. but you favor the DC version. stick discussions aside, i'd like to know why that is.

--
"A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"

 

my my...so much traffic

which is better, a version of the game where the majority could think and act on it if they wanted to, or one where it'll likely boil down to who's faster and better wailing out commands, which was all VF2 was at the end?

And for me this really is the defining argument. I remember when
Toronto first got VF3ob and we were all gathered around it and
Yupasawa remarked, "it is so slow there's time to react not apply
patterns". Now granted, by the end of VF2 we had all gotten very
used to the speed and could actually react to things we saw...on
the saturn (which is faster than the arcade) I got to the point
where I could powerbomb whiffed low punches with my Jeff. not too
shabby but I really didn't enjoy the frantic pacing.

The DC version *is* faster and that is due to conversion faults
not planning. Its a flaw. The same as all the other little
problems. After a while they add up. so does my distaste for
Genki's product.

Now here come's the disclaimer. I actually like the DC port. I
look at it on a good tv and marvel at the graphics. I use the
DC for capturing and making movies. I don't have many issues
with the DC port simply because it satisfies a convenience that
the arcade doesn't. The DC can come to my home.

And I hate the sticks at funland too. I'm a picky bugger though.
I don't like the DC sticks since there's so little space between
neutral and anything else. I like a little room to move...however
I would prefer something in the middle of the agetec and the NA
ones we have now which--I guess--is where the opticals come in.
I love them.

seems I'm rambling.

GE

 

I find the DC sticks to be so far the best for playing VF.

even better than japanese arcade sticks?


On DC, of course

 

I dunno about you but i think its a great combination to have in one's VF arsenal---->quick thinking/guessing and quick reaction. This combination can be lethal in whichever version one plays. One example that comes to mind : nelson-KUN (ghetto-SHUN) who up till recently also casually played arcade OB - now literally demolishing players with his sick reaction and amazing guessing abilities (with Shun to boot)!


I think its easier for an advanced player (who has kerrazy reaction and thinking/guessing) to go adjust from a faster version to a slower one than adjusting from a slower game to a quicker one.

<font color=red>ORA! ORA! ORA!</font color=red>

<font color=white>adam</font color=white><font color=red>YUKI</font color=red>

 

>I dunno about you but i think its a great combination to have in one's VF arsenal---->quick thinking/guessing and quick reaction.

no _fucking_ shit, adam. you might as well say "i don't know about you but i think people with two normal hands probably are better players than most double amputees".

the question was: which is better...(ugh i'm sick of repeating myself) a platform where more people can use their brains (if they wanted to), or one where the potential (DC) for that kind of play is not as great...and where many matches can and will default to who's quicker with their hands...(see GE's post).

--
"A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"

 

>I dunno about you but i think its a great combination to have in one's VF arsenal---->quick thinking/guessing and quick reaction.

>>no _fucking_ shit, adam. you might as well say "i don't know about you but i think people with two normal hands probably are better players than most double amputees".

I know...but i was just saying that the DC version's speed easily facilitates this great combination.

>>one where the potential (DC) for that kind of play is not as great...

It can be just as great/greater when players actually commit themselves to playing that way (using their brains). For beginners and intermediate players, yes, the slower speed would be beneficial, but my main argument is that the increased speed doesn't necessarily pollute the play for advanced players (who are already used to using more brains). Also, being quicker with hands (reactive gameplay) isn't necessarily a negative thing - "reaction" as always been a key ingredient in VF (which contributes to the appeal of it).

<font color=red>ORA! ORA! ORA!</font color=red>

<font color=white>adam</font color=white><font color=red>YUKI</font color=red>

 

this is getting nasty!!

I just wanna say this:

when you people meet again for the next
gathering/tourny... y'll gonna feel a little
weird seeing the person you blasted on the net
right in front of you.

i think tournaments are simply a bad idea at this
time, considering how bad vibes people get.
people will always complain no matter what. plus,
you might lose some "net-friends" over a freaking
video game!!?! just because of some argument.

to uk_kid.; u shouldn't inderectly attack someone
just like that, not a good way to start posting.




<font color=red>PICCOLO</font color=red>