Alright, own up!

Alright, here's my thoughts...

I personally feel that if I had learned VF3 on the arcade, I would have maybe understood more sooner than I did. NYG2 was definitely an enlightening experience, thanks to the help of the lecture sessions by Adam, Andy, Nelson, Emil, and Hiro. Hiro and Adam had stressed the fundamental basics that were completely gone from my frantic-playing...

How does this tie in? DC version is indeed faster. I have nothing wrong with it now, but when I think about it, after going to Santa Clara, and playing at Sunnyvale with John Choi, I came out with the impression that "I had seen the light" with the arcade version. I still feel this way. I mean, I credit all the vast improvements in my gameplay and better understanding of VF3(ob and tb) to almost everyone at NYG2. It was the big eye opening experience. However, Sunnyvale was another such experience in that I could see where it was probably easier to see the basics... Anyways I'm ranting... back to the point...

DC is faster, arcade is slower. For a player like Adam and just about everyone who has very good experience with the game, I can understand Adam's point that the speed makes it more intense and thus, you either think faster or setup some good repertoire of setups and routine type of play... However, consider the fact that all of you guys, Adam included, got your VF3 (I know most of you guys played VF2 as well) training from the arcade, more specifically, ob. I figure you already had the basics, but your experiences on the slower version may have actually opened your eyes much quicker to the options you have, the time to think of a proper tactic or response, etc... I was trained on the DC and I feel that the faster speed significantly factored (though, not necessarily completely was responsible for) into my rash style of play that was all attack and all routine... In fact, for a person who was not fundamentally unprepared for the game, it shoved me into a corner of constant panic with the action flying by as I got brain-frozen. It took a longer time for me to adjust to knowing what frames or tell-tale signs to look for in the action and flow of the game. It encouraged me to think of my standard flowchart as only attack/evade.... I'm not blaming the DC version for myself not logically finding the proper way of handling a situation. What I'm saying was that it feels like it encouraged it... it added to the panic I already had in the back of my mind. Not to mention the key lesson Adam gave to me the second day I was in NY which I'll always remember... "Watch what you are (me) doing." At a faster pace, without understanding of the game, it's just more difficult to do for a beginner. However, automatically, given the pacing of the arcade tb I played in Sunnyvale, I "automatically" started watching what I was doing to a whole 'nother level. Credit my experience and reminders and lessons from NYG2, but this was a significant leap that came "naturally" after a little while when I was playing the arcade. Due to that, I am convinced that the arcade version encourages more "thoughtful" play to EVERYONE. Whereas, the faster speed in the DC version encourages more frantic play to some, and a much faster thinking and elimination of not-so-good options to the seasoned players. This is a good and bad thing, but taking a quote from Clopin (which was not referring to this topic--was referred to stick preference), "it's a preference issue."

Is it better to train on faster, then go to slower? Or is it better to train on slower, then go faster? I'm gonna take the middle road on this one... It sort of goes hand in hand... For me, the slower version will allow you to digest things far easier, so as a beginner I would say one should train on slower. Learn the intricasies as well as grasp the situations. For the seasoned player, faster will actually build their reaction time and sharper decisions IF THEY ALREADY HAVE A GOOD GRASP OF THE FUNDAMENTALS or know what to look for. This is as a training tool though, that's the perspective the above argument is in. As for what standard to use? That's something debatable, subjective, and is a preference issue.... However, I will say that I believe, slower matches lead to more intelligent matches which can actually show further, the dynamic of the game. Faster matches leave to sharper play, requiring quick thinking, dexterity, and good reaction--to me, this does not mean more intelligent games as some have tried to say (but this doesn't say that faster matches are stupid either. However, the chances of making more intelligent decisions in a situation is reduced greatly by the increased pressure in time).

I hope this all makes sense to everyone.

-Chanchai

 

We practice so much it doesnt matter which one it is. Vf3tb Arcade or DC. Why do I say this? Well Adam and Nelsons play on the arcade the one time they played in the arcade in toronto, did they complain? Maybe about joysticks, but they still came back saying they played well. I understand if its hard to play on one vs the other, but its relatively the same. Yes it can cause matches to go either way (wolf and kage matches in particular) but concept and skill is the same. TFT combo's, Wolf pickups, I play harder to win if im at a disadvantage. Thats it. Play harder. Play Better. Adjust more. If im at the arcade, I'll adjust. I can go right back to ob tommorow not having played it for over 2 years and within days be back at my highest level of play. Why? Cause fundamentally its still the same game. Even ob to tb. There are of course some diffrences. Timing, speed, certain move properties etc. but gameplay concept is the same. Again, we practice so much it doesnt matter which one it is. IF we practiced on arcade we'd rock on in the DC. We practice on the DC we'd rock on at the arcade.

CrewNYC

<font color=red>ORA! ORA! ORA!</font color=red>

<font color=white>adam</font color=white><font color=red>YUKI</font color=red><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by adamYUKI on 10/8/00 07:35 PM.</FONT></P>

 

>I know...but i was just saying that the DC version's speed easily facilitates this great combination.

well then. the arcade would facilitate it much more easily, and much more forgivingly, because it's slower, aye? see, it's backward compatitable. all the vf gods in NY will be able to deal on an arcade version...(using your reasoning, they might even be better on it...even more time to think! more time and more relaxed input!)

but, they'll also get -more- challenge from the poor handicapped fucks such as (implied) myself who may or may not be able to cope with the dc's frantic pace, and -prefer- the slower pace.

in a tournament, as an _observer_, would you rather see a game where it's just who gets to the punch first, gets to the iniative first, based only on his dexterity, and who can wail out the spods and dlc's the best? or would you, as an observer, see a battle with more thinking, more mental workouts in the battles? on a platform where it's more obvious that what happened was thought out, and not just a spazzing match?

you've got the akira kid tape. go to the end. watch those wonderful akira vs akira battles that go on for hours. is that really fun? both to play, and to watch? SE guessing (choose two out of the three options and you either die, or almost die) games and who beats who to the (S)DE. YYYEEEE HAAAAWWWWWWWW!! that's what i mean by dexterity battles. fuck that shit.

--
"A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"

 

Re: this is getting nasty!!

sal. i'm having fun. i take these arguments in good humor. i DO NOT judge anyone as a person based on their VF play or opinions. people take their play, their VF egos too goddamn seriously. there's nothing anyone could say about me, and how i was at NYG2 (or anywhere) that i wouldn't admit to first. i've got nothing to hide.
the only thing that does irritate me is ignorance, lack of reading comprehension and stupid/bad debating skills.

and i don't hate the japanese, either.

--
"A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"

 

i hope that's not what you think i'm getting into all this shit for: to say that because one group plays on one platform the other is inferiour. fuck that. i never even implied that.
all i'm stating are reasonings on how and why i prefer the arcade version. and i still haven't heard any arguments to that make me wonder if i should think differently.

and regarding adapting: well, of course. that's a very good attitude. but...i look at this way: arcade tb had very specific changes over OB, and new features that were part of the producers vision. the dc version, and how it's played, is closer to the game that was released four years ago than the one in 97, arcade TB. that's sega's creation. DC TB is a poor adaptation that wasn't even done by sega, and is played in ways, no matter how small or large you think they are, that was not intended by sega. crap imitation.

--
"A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"

 

this is "all your fault", myke.

--
"A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"

 

Re: this is getting nasty!!

just to clarify my early post, it was directed at
noone in particular, just generalization.


<font color=red>PICCOLO</font color=red>

 

Re: this is getting nasty!!

i shouldn't start a post by 'indirectly attacking' someone?
which post??? i haven't attacked anyone.
please explain: a) which post it was i sent that was agressive
b) how i can possibly take the blame for this ongoing slagging match between adam and 'mr bungle'??? which, incidentally, bungle won't let rest for some reason...
anyway, none of my business really (though i dare say mr bungle'll have something to say)
uk kid (an innocent man)

 

Re: this is getting nasty!!

you just did it again!!!

lol


<font color=red>PICCOLO</font color=red>

 

Re: this is getting nasty!!

i'm a peaceful guy.
piccolo: you didn't answer my question
uk kid

 

Re: this is getting nasty!!

and i don't hate the japanese, either.

Right. I was feeling fine even after sharing the same table at the restaurant.


...I'm being even MORE stupid than usual.

 

no matter how small or large you think they are, that was not intended by sega. crap imitation.

So what?!? Because there are no TB arcade machines in the US - all there is, is the DC version. You and the Toronto players (read : a handfull) are the only ones who have access to arcade version. Its easier for you guys to get access to a DC version than it is for others to play the arcade version regularly. Therefore, like it or not, THE DC VERSION (however flawed) IS NOW THE STANDARD IN NORTH AMERICA - because of its accessibility. I and the 20-30 players who play the DC version hardcore (i feel i can speak for them) are tremendously happy with it, cause all we give a fuck about is honing our skills and don't care too much about little nuances in gameplay and graphics.

However, I will say that I believe, slower matches lead to more intelligent matches which can actually show further, the dynamic of the game.

Again, the beginner and intermediate player is suited for arcade's speed, but the advanced player can CARRY OVER INTELLIGENT PLAY TO THE QUICKER VERSION - SO PLEASE GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF HOW THE "DYNAMIC OF THE GAME" CAN'T be apparent in the DC version?

Faster matches leave to sharper play, requiring quick thinking, dexterity, and good reaction--to me, this does not mean more intelligent games as some have tried to say

Man o man...so, what is intelligent play for you? Why is it so hard for you to understand that great thinking can easily be a part of the DC experience? I guess i have problems with this cause once a week, every week (when playing with nelson, andy, and hiro) my brain is fried cause there is such a high level of trying to outwit each other and adjust. This is "intelligent play"...is your definition of "intelligent play" something else?

<font color=red>ORA! ORA! ORA!</font color=red>

<font color=white>adam</font color=white><font color=red>YUKI</font color=red>

 

Heres something for everyone to listen to while writing to this subject.


<OBJECT ID="MediaPlayer" WIDTH=320 HEIGHT=45 CLASSID="CLSID:22D6f312-B0F6-11D0-94AB-0080C74C7E95"
CODEBASE="http://activex.microsoft.com/activex/controls/mplayer/en/
nsmp2inf.cab#Version=6,4,5,715"

standby="Loading Microsoft Windows Media Player components..."
TYPE="application/x-oleobject">

<PARAM NAME="FileName" VALUE="../../CrewNYC/commentary.wma">
</OBJECT>




<a HREF="../../CrewNYC/commentary.wma">Start the Windows Media Services
presentation in the stand-alone player.</a>



<font color=red>ORA! ORA! ORA!</font color=red>

<font color=white>adam</font color=white><font color=red>YUKI</font color=red><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by adamYUKI on 10/8/00 09:39 PM.</FONT></P>

 

a standard for something doesn't necessarily mean it's a good thing. and i think the DC, as a whole - everything that went with it being available - is the worst thing to ever happen to the NA vf scene. worst thing ever in seven years (that and the move from usenet for discussions).

and, no, obviously, i don't like the standard. and those 20-30 people hating me because i speak out on those "little nuances" still can't put forth anything to make me change my mind.

>SO PLEASE GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF HOW THE "DYNAMIC OF THE GAME" CAN'T be apparent in the DC version?

...it's faster. less time to react. less time to think. that won't change.

>Why is it so hard for you to understand that great thinking can easily be a part of the DC experience?

never once said that it's not there, or not easy to find on the DC. my statement and experience that is that been it's _easier_ to find on the arcade version.

(i think that quoted text got fucked up...not sure who said what).

--
"A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"

 

Re: this is getting nasty!!

ogh. you made me choke on my beverage (with laughter).

i'm fine now, sorry to get anyone's hopes up...

--
"A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"

 

that..thing...on the front index isn't even flash, it's an animated gif. wasn't worth the wait, either. wouldn't be in any case, even if i had a fast connection.

--
"A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"

 

Ugh...as much as I would like praise one's effort, can someone turn this off? It's killing my browser....

Besides all I could hear was Hiro speaking in Japanese.... Is it supposed to be his personal message to me and other (if any) Japanese speakers out there?

 

still can't put forth anything to make me change my mind.

No care or interest in CHANGING your mind - just bringing forward why we feel that DC version is more than satisfactory experience for those that love VF3 and don't have access to arcade version. You can play your arcade version, and we'll play DC version, but please just leave "arcade version is better than DC" subject matter alone - you keep waxing on about it, yet despite the favorable points you list about the arcade, good players players just don't care about them. All they care about is mastering the major concepts of the game and getting better. The fact is that there are numerous players in the US who still play it (hardcore) - so competition will always be there, and that is the most exciting and important thing.

...it's faster. less time to react. less time to think. that won't change.

Can you give an approximate percentage of the speed difference? If it is significant, then yes...beginners and intermediate players would benefit. For those that have trained hard on the DC version and have reached "advanced status", the game speed gives more than enuff time to react and to think - speed is very comforatble. Furthermore the experience gained from DC should translate wonderfully to arcade vf3tb (again, this is assuming a significant difference in speed does in fact, exist).

<font color=red>ORA! ORA! ORA!</font color=red>

<font color=white>adam</font color=white><font color=red>YUKI</font color=red>

 

Ugh...as much as I would like praise one's effort, can someone turn this off? It's killing my browser....

HEHEH...sorry about this Shota. Again, Andy is feeling restless and pissed off. I've told him to kill it, and he says he'll do it in a bit (kinda busy right now). I would kill it myself if i knew how.

Its not a message to you specifically, but he just thought it would be cool to record hiro saying shit in japanese to vf music in background.

<font color=red>ORA! ORA! ORA!</font color=red>

<font color=white>adam</font color=white><font color=red>YUKI</font color=red>