An introduction to FS Vanessa

Origin ： Acebreaker
Translator ： Modelah


I thought I'd write something for people just starting out with VF5FS and wanting to try Vanessa, but weren't sure what kind of character she was. I'll try and keep this as simple as possible for beginners.

・What kind of character is Vanessa?
Vanessa has two different styles; Defensive Style (DS) and Offensive Style (OS). During fights she can switch between DS and OS. Movement and attacks are considerably different in each style, thus effectively requiring you to have knowledge of two characters' movesets. Therefore, it will take a little more time to familiarize yourself with Vanessa compared to other characters, but she is a character well worth the effort. In addition, as you can switch styles according to how your opponent plays there aren't really any matchups that leave Vanessa disadvantaged. You have two characters' worth of strategy to employ, and you'll be able to dominate when playing opponents unfamiliar with Vanessa.

・The difference between other characters' 'stances' and Vanessa's 'style'
Other characters enter their stances from a neutral fighting stance, or after executing a certain move. From stance performing moves will revert them back to neutral stance or shift to another stance, either way eventually they will always end up back in neutral. In this regard Vanessa doesn't have a neutral stance at all, she will always fight in either DS or OS. You cannot switch between DS and OS except with three certain moves, or directly switching. Incidently, Vanessa will always start a round in DS.

・Defensive Style
DS consists mainly of defensive moves. Though the most useful moves are slow, single-shot blows this style also has sabaki-attacks that can hit while deflecting an opponent's strikes. There are many moves that can be utilized when at disadvantage, and you'll also find the fastest-executing attack of the entire cast here. In VF's system, when other characters are at a large frame disadvantage they will find themselves in nitaku between a throw or strike, but in DS Vanessa can quite easily interrupt nitaku attempts and turn the tables on her opponents. Though all characters have one, Vanessa's middle kick is espescially good, and she also has a great variety of circular attacks. Add to this damaging throws in all three directions together with crouch throws makes Vanessa particularly good at dealing with fuzzy guard, a strong defensive technique that all characters can use.

In addition, she has the 'Intercept Position' (IP aka 'the Inoki') as a special stance. As the stance is extremely low to the ground and has a very good low hit-throw from normal hit, it is very effective against opponents not familiar with it. It is possible to enter stance from two DS moves, and also after being knocked down; you can also enter stance similar to how you perform an 'ukemi' recovery. This system of ukemi recovering into stance is unique to Vanessa and not found in any other character. Basically IP is only used in DS but you can also ukemi-recover into stance from OS. The drawback of DS is that it doesn't have the VF cornerstone of offense; a single-command, 14f elbow class attack. It's also difficult to stop low punches, a move often used by players to abare when at small advantage. It's very difficult to to mount a reliable offense without a reasonably large frame advantage, so IP isn't very effective as an offensive tool. Another weakness is its poor ability to punish. This comes from a lack of the elbow-class move mentioned above, and there isn't a single move faster than 16f that can knock down a standing/crouching opponent on normal hit. This means that you can't use a knock-down-and-pressure approach so you won't be able to mount a steady offense. With moves that don't knock down on hit you really have to follow how your opponent moves, and even when you have advantage you'll find you can get hurt by misreading quite often. Another big minus is that the only launcher on normal hit is a 17f high. It can not be said not only they can not float when you guard a large low-circular total chance, return is greater.

・Offensive Style
OS consists mainly of offensive moves. In DS there were many moves that could be utilized when at disadvantage, and in exchange for those moves there are now a variety of elbow-class attacks available in OS. With fast launchers as punishment tools, a low risk special high half-circular that can get you a lot of damage off a counter hit, a so-so but unescapable catch throw on counterhit OS is significantly different to DS. Like DS, OS also has its own unique stances.

Known as Intruder Step (IS), this stance allows you to press forward during certain moves. Advancing forward or performing one of three moves are the only ways to get out of this stance but you have strong nitaku options between an inescapable catch throw, or powerful normal hit mid launcher that is also safe on guard.

Another 'stance' so to speak is the Mount Position (mount), entered from a successful catch throw. Once in the mount you have a chance for a santaku guessing game, and depending on certain conditions it's possible to do damage equal to or greater than the throw command if you guess correctly. If santaku doesn't go in your favor you'll end up sparated from your opponent and reset in a roughly 50/50 situation.

The drawback of OS is that becuse it lacks the defensive moves found in DS, you'll be subject to the same nitaku setups as the rest of the cast. OS also doesn't have the low throws found in DS, making it hard to attack players who are good at fuzzy guarding. It doesn't have a middle kick to counterhit backdashers either, so even though it's called Offensive Style there are some instances that make it difficult to do so.

・Weaknesses found in both styles
A weakness both styles share is the unusually high punishment Vanessa takes. Every fighting game has specific combos to used against heavier characters and that corresponds to Vanessa in VF as well. Against other characters combos can land under certain conditions but against Vanessa those conditions seem to have been relaxed. As a result she can be subject to high-damage combos, and quite often moves not usually used to start combos will work as combo starters against Vanessa. Her weak low attacks are another disadvantage. Among the two styles, the only low attack that gives advantage on normal hit is a jumping attack and a back turned attack from OS. Since there are no moves in OS that will put you in a back turned state, it's extremly rare to see let alone use the back turned low attack. In addition, there are no low attacks that knock down on normal hit except for a jumping attack in DS. Therefore, instead of low attacks you'll have to mainly rely on mids and throws to break down your opponents. So from this we know that even with high attack potential Vanessa can be hard to use, her low defensive capabilities and tendency to eat a lot of damage are her main weaknesses. Compared to other fighting game characters she's like Akuma, Milia (of Guilty Gear), Souther of Fist of the North Star and Craig Marduk (of Tekken).

 

Thank you @acebreaker for taking the time to share your wisdom; and @Modelah for helping with the translation.

Very informative post. Stickied. Looking forward to even more Vanessa advice!

Question: "The drawback of IP is that it doesn't have the VF cornerstone of offense; a single-command, 14f elbow class attack." Doesn't this apply to the entire DS style?

 

Although not an elbow, doesn't Vanessa's WS P substitute as a fast mid?

 

From neutral position, you can't do it on 14f and single command at the same time.

I believe that all the following applies to the entire DS style.


The IP part is probably only :
"In addition, she has the 'Intercept Position' (IP aka 'the Inoki') as a special stance. As the stance is extremely low to the ground and has a very good low hit-throw from normal hit, it is very effective against opponents not familiar with it. It is possible to enter stance from two DS moves, and also after being knocked down; you can also enter stance similar to how you perform an 'ukemi' recovery. This system of ukemi recovering into stance is unique to Vanessa and not found in any other character. Basically IP is only used in DS but you can also ukemi-recover into stance from OS."

 

I did 14f ws+P in earlier VFs all the time, what changed in FS?

 

Nothing changed, I stand by my comment of 14f WS P.

 

It's clearly written "a single-command".

To do 14f WS P from neutral stance you need to do .

Or maybe I am unaware of something.

 

I understand single-command was mentioned, but, that wasn't what I was focused on with my post. A 14f mid is a 14f mid, inputs notwithstanding. I just wanted to bring WS P to light and discuss it in response to acebreaker saying she doesn't have a 14f elbow in DS in order to determine if it's a suitable replacement.

 

Id settle for DS 6K as an elbow. That works ok guys. I personally wouldn't bother using ws p as a elbow. Just seems a bit too extra during the heat of a match. Her 6k is good!

 

@G_A i thought so too initially. However the following sentence is: "It's also difficult to stop low punches, a move often used by players to abare when at small advantage."

If anything, DS vane is known (even hated) for her which obviously beats low punch That's why i thought we were still talking about IP (there's IP but it's very risky) so that's why i asked.

I'm hoping @acebreaker will explain more if he has the time! Already his post has sparked a discussion: should new players practice buffering DS or should they settle for DS ?!

 

I believe that the context is very important here. The problem is not having lot of moves that allow to take advantage of small frame advantage.

Basic, common and well-known scenario :
You do a on guard, you are at +2f, Vanessa doesn't have "a single-command, 14f elbow class attack" to attack efficiently without worrying about a .
The blockstun of is a bit short to confirm + buffer the input of WS .
Doing is vulnerable to fast mids.
You only have (meh).


At +3 you have with leads to a weak santaku.
At +4 you start to have some options, but nothing comparable to OS, OS etc.

At least that's my interpretation and also my feeling of DS Vanessa.

Well I wouldn't be surprised that the "single-command" part is what Acebreaker wanted to point out.
Elbow class or not doesn't really matter like you pointed out from the very beginning.

 

6K is definitely the nitaku choice, since you will usually have enough frame advantage to beat out jabs and low punches with it. The only common situation where you don't have enough advantage is when you jab on block, but then you have PP, which can work well enough I suppose.

Learning to do fast ws+P from standing can be useful though, it can help you capitalize on a lot of stagger situations.

 

Yeah I totally forgot about PP. It's safe against overhead attacks, but the frame advantages are meh.

On nitaku situation (+5 and onward) why would you prefer 6K over 3K+G ?

 

Maybe a bet for better positioning ?

 

6K is a bit safer han 3K+G. 3K+G is usually punishable on evade

 

Sorry, Guys.
I did not notice that the article is wrong when posting.
It may be there are other.

Failure
The drawback of IP is that it doesn't have the VF cornerstone of offense; a single-command, 14f elbow class attack.

Correct
The drawback of DS is that it doesn't have the VF cornerstone of offense; a single-command, 14f elbow class attack.

Do not know what can be explained well, but I try.

I said "a single-command,14f elbow class attack"
That's means Jacky and other character has .
This is called "a single-command"
,, etc.

DS style fastest mid is WS(Exe 13f)
That's right.
But WS is standing output use buffered crouch()
Moves to enter more than once a lever is called "two-command"
, etc.

And buffered crouch used move is always take more than Exe+1~nf.
is Exe+nf = 14f~??f.
If you do not use buffering, she can not be output in 14f.
Then, to enter immediately at any time is difficult to simply.
Effort because I take than put out.

 

@acebreaker , @Modelah : i convinced Myke to include your character overview in the wiki.

Thanks again!