Anti-TR Instant Death Guide

I've been working on this for a while, as sort of an addendum to my combo faq. This is a series of difficult and unusually brutal anti-techroll combos for each character. Some of them take off 100% of the lifebar, with the opponent's only mistakes being 1: eating the first hit and 2: trying to tech roll.
I try to explain how to set up tech roll backstaggers in each section and I made sure there's some really difficult and flashy stuff for everyone who likes a challenge. I should stress to new people that these 'combos' aren't really combos, they're just a series of attacks which will always take off over half the opponent's health if the opponent tech rolls, which is something most north american players do even when they'd be better off staying down. Once the opponent makes the decision to tech roll, the moves that backstagger the opponent is guaranteed, provided you have the skill and timing to pull them off. Once the opponent is backstaggered, some moves will always work and others can be avoided by struggling and guarding.

Also, these combos were made for and work on version C. Almost all of them should be OK for the few version B machines out there, and a majority of them will work on Evo. Combos that rely on moves that slam the opponent to the floor can be techrolled in Evo, and so wolf's high damage combos ending in a pounce would have to be altered to slightly less damaging combos. Pai's 200+ point combo would also be TR-able in evo, leaving the opponent with a sliver of life. However imagine someone doing that and eating a d+P+K or u+P+K from pai /versus/images/icons/wink.gif

Ok, on to the fun stuff.
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The Fun Stuff
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Setting up backstaggers:

All you need for a backstagger is an opponent who TR's from a facedown, head towards position (or, rarely, you can get one from someone who QR's from facedown, head away).
Once the opponent commits to a tech roll in that position, you can land a GUARANTEED mid attack on them with careful timing. If the mid attack happens to be one that staggers crouching opponents, such as a typical sidekick or elbow, you get a backstagger. Backstaggers last a long time and are hard to struggle out of, so dash/crouch dash up to their exposed back and cut loose with a combo. The nice part about backstaggers is that almost any attack will knock down or float if it's stronger than a jab. So float combo starters like pai and lion's FC,f+P will float, even though they normally need a major counter.
The basic ingredients to a typical backstagger combo:
1. Opponent is crumpled. Use a head or stomach crumple, foot crumples leave you face up.
2. Opponent is hit during the crumple with one or more TR-able attacks, and chooses to TR.
3. A well timed sidekick/elbow/other move hits them the exact instant the TR ends.
4. Opponent is backstaggered.. move in close and enjoy your free combo.

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Character-specific backstagger setups
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All are performed against aoi, many will work against the other characters. You only need to make adjustments for your after-stagger combo... all characters backstagger the same.

Akira
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QCB+P (crumple) -> P -> m-shrm (TRed) -> sidekick -> yoho -> P -> m-shrm -> m-dbpm [172 pts]

notes: Do the QCB+P from open stance. It's helpful but not necessary to hold forward during the first punch. Do the modified shoulder ram (df, df, f+P+K) and the opponent will then TR. Dash forward and time a sidekick for the backstagger. The next hit, the yoho, can be hard. You need to enter the command for a yoho (df, df+P) after you are fully recovered from the sidekick, and you need to hold the second DF for a split second so that akira crouch dashes forward before unleashing the uppercut. If successful you'll land the uppercut into the opponent's back. Hold forward for the next punch, then continue into a modified shoulder ram, then a perfect modified double palm (df,df,b,f+P).

If this combo is too hard for you, there are a few things you can do to make easier. After the crumple, skip the punch and do just a m-shrm (works in either stance) or if you have trouble with modified attacks, do a sidekick instead. Once the opponent is backstaggered, you can crouch dash forward and do a shoulder ram in place of the difficult c-yoho. If you have trouble with shrm, P, shrm, double palm (akira's staple combo) you can instead do shrm, P, shrm, sidekick. Or you can just do shrm, P, DJK (f,f+K,K).

b,f+P+K+G -> low kick (opponent TR's) -> sidekick -> SDE -> DLC [??? pts]

notes: After the low kick, you need to buffer f,f for a tiny fraction of a dash, then almost immediately sidekick. A buffered sidekick misses but with the partial dash, it will hit.
The rest is simply buffered... SDE, DLC. You can also do the other backstagger followups (shoulder ram, yoho, etc)

f,f,f+P -> d+P -> shrm (opponent TR's) -> sidekick -> yoho -> P -> yoho [??? pts]

notes: the hardest combo I can think of, you need to get the SDE MC crumple, do a half dash forward, then hit the low punch with perfect timing. When you do it correctly it hits 'on the bounce' and you'll hear the opponent's body hit the floor as the low punch connects. This strange effect causes the opponent to rebounce high into the air for a shoulder ram. You could finish with a double palm at this point, but instead allow the opponent to TR. Dash forward and sidekick them for the backstagger. Then do the df, DF+P (crouch dash into uppercut) described two combos above. Hold forward and do a jab, and during the jab's recovery quickly buffer another df, DF+P. You need to hold the second DF for a split second to ensure a yoho comes out instead of a ground punch.

qcb+P -> df+K (opponent TR's) -> df+K -> df+K (into the wall) -> df+K [125]

notes: a really easy one, but it requires positioning. To set it up in PS2 training mode do one forward dash then one dodge before starting it. Once you do, the rest is easy..time the second sidekick to connect as a backstagger, then do the next one immediately to send them into the wall, and finish with one more.

Other setups: Once the opponent is backstaggered, your best followup is f,f,f+P if you want to ensure they don't struggle and recover.
Besides the combo starters listed here, akira's b+P+K+G, f+P (inashi reversal - palm) will crumple the opponent. So will the second hit of df+P+K+G, P. Once they're crumpled you can use pretty much anything to set up the TR.. for example an all yoho combo with QCB+P, yoho, sidekick, yoho, yoho would look neat. Or substitute knees for the yohos if you think you're good enough. If your opponent is wary of your backstagger games, try doing 2/3rds DLC or 2/3rds AS3 to make them think you were trying for a flashy combo and screwed it up... they might be baited into TRing. Finally, to get the backstagger you can use a forward dash into dashing elbow (f,f f,f+P) instead of a sidekick.

Lau
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f+P+K -> superknife (opponent TR's) -> sidekick -> superknife -> df+PPP,d+K

notes: One of the easier ones in the game, just land a MC with the f+P+K to crumple the opponent, do df+P+K to set up the TR... dash and connect with the usual sidekick backstagger. Then use the df+P+K to float the opponent and follow with an easy downknife,P,P,d+K.

f+P+K -> df+P,P,K (opponent TR's) -> sidekick -> upknife-superknife -> m-upknife,PPP,d+K

notes: A harder variation, use df+P,P,K for the most damaging TR setup, then dash in and sidekick, crouch dash all the way up to the opponent's back, and execute a DF+P, df+P+K. Once they're airborne do a standard modified DF+P,P,P,P,d+K combo.

f+P+K -> m-upkn-superknife (opponent TR's) -> sidekick -> b,b+P,d+PPPd+K [158 pts]

notes: harder yet, but less damaging... you need closed stance, close range, and a tight modified upknife to pull off the DF+P,df+P+K after the opponent is crumpled. The rest is a generic bb+P combo.

f+P+K -> b,b+P (opponent TR's) -> sidekick -> upknife,P,b+P -> TT kick [125 pts]

notes: The devious combo, this is actually one of the easiest-to-time backstagger setups in the game. After the crumple enter b,b+P.. then once lau is fully recovered, tap and hold DF a hair before pressing kick to make your sidekick connect. Tapping df makes lau turn around, holding it and pressing kick ensures you get a sidekick. No dash is needed. Then crouch dash into DF+P,P,b+P and then press K to complete the combo. For a backstagger combo it's small damage, but you'll be too l33t to care.

f+P+K -> low punch -> double low kick (TRed) -> elbow -> b+P+K -> sidekick-P-palm [142 pts]

notes: This requires open stance. After the crumple, hesitate a half second then time a low punch to hit the back of the opponent's neck. You hear a floor-hit sound when it's done right. The opponent is floated enough for a double low kick. On completion of the double low kick, dash forward, wait a tiny bit, then elbow them for a backstagger. Dash up and use b+P+K for a mild float, then immediately start holding DF after the recovery of b+P+K. Once you're recovered, press K for a sidekick, then tap P,P for the canned P-palm followup.

f+P+K -> double low kick (opponent TR's) -> sidekick-P(whiff)-palm -> df+PPPsweep [156 pts]

notes: A standard backstagger combo up to the sidekick. Do f+P+K, double low kick... opponent TR's... df+K backstagger. At this point, delay a hair and then press P,P after your sidekick connects. With proper timing (and perhaps open stance?) the next punch will whiff, but the palm will connect for a comical facedown flop. These flops can be used as combo starters, so do a simple df+P,P,P,d+K combo to end it. Damage may vary depending on how low to the floor your sweep hits.

other setups: A partial crouch dash into sidekick-P-palm -> low kick is probably the fastest followup you have to the backstagger, though it's possible to struggle it. Lau's only crumple tool besides f+P+K is his dodge attack. What you use to set up the TR is up to you, df+P,P,K is the most damaging, modified upknife is the hardest to do, and the low punch OTB combo is pretty nifty. From there your backstagger tools are limited to elbow or sidekick. The sidekick-P-palm setup is neat though. Occasionally only the palm hits, occasionally nothing hits, and rarely the sidekick hits, the punch hits, the opponent is turned around, and then the palm connects. This is against the training dummy.. a human could probably block the palm. If they fail to block it, do your standard b,f+P combo (if you remember your stance.. P,b+P,P for closed... or d+P -> DF+P,df+P+K for open).

Jacky
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backfist -> double high backfist (opponent TR's) -> puntkick -> knee -> b+P+K,P -> f+P+K -> df+K [176 pts]

notes: This is a typical and highly damaging backstagger setup for jacky. The b+P,P is the most damage you can inflict before the opponent can TR, and the f,f+K puntkick is the strongest backstagger tool. You'll need to hesitate a split second, then press forward 4 times to dash and puntkick for the backstagger. Then dash forward and do your standard high-damage knee combo, which works on almost any weight class. If the opponent is lazy, you can get away with a pounce instead of a ground kick at the end.

SS->gut punch -> elbow-backfist(opponent TR's) -> sidekick -> heel sword -> df+K+G [117 pts]

notes: easy and stylish. It may need closed stance. Press b+P+K+G, then crouch dash and press P for the gut punch. Use f+P,P for an easy 31 pt tech roll setup. Crouch dash forward, delay a bit, then sidekick them for the backstagger (the delay is gonna be longer than you think, you can almost sit and watch the TRing opponent and then decide when to sidekick). Finish with b+K+G, df+K+G.. you could pounce for 10 pts more damage instead of using the weird hook kick, but you'd lose cool points.

df+P, P+K(charged) -> m-uppercut (TRed) -> elbow -> elbow-backfist -> puntkick [156 pts]

notes: A great "wtf" combo using an obscure jacky move. The hook charges into a pump backfist which crumples. After the crumple buffer a crouch dash and use a DF+P uppercut to set up the TR. Dash forward only once and carefully time a f+P elbow to set up the backstagger. Then dash in and do a simple f+P,P -> f,f+K combo.

df+PPP -> low kick (opponent TR's) -> puntkick -> knee -> elbow-backfist-sweep [144]

notes: I'd like to think I'm the first guy to come up with this nifty little backstagger setup, but it's probably not true. The df+P,P,P is a true combo on MC that leaves the opponent facedown. Jacky's recovery is just barely good enough for him to dash forward and use a db+K low kick to scrape the opponent off the ground and put them in a TR-able position. The next part is hard, you need to buffer f,f during the recovery of the low kick, allow jacky to dash just a tiny bit, then press K for the puntkick. Your puntkick comes out almost immediately after the low kick for the backstagger, the tiny half dash from tapping f,f gives you the range you need for it to hit. The rest is a simple dash-and-knee combo.

backfist -> TA punch (opponent TR's) -> TT pump backfist -> puntkick -> knee -> elbow-backfist -> f+P+K -> ground kick [184 pts]

notes: One of the hardest-to-time combos I've ever had to do. It's very satisfying to pull it off. Do the b+P interrupt for a crumple, and press b,b+P to do a turnaway jab. It helps to press G after the first hit to ensure you don't accidentally do b+P,P. Once you turn away with a punch you must IMMEDIATELY buffer a dash towards your opponent during the recovery of the TA punch. If you buffer the dash, jacky dashes towards them while facing backwards. If you do it too late, he turns around. Now, while jacky is dashing towards the enemy, buffer ANOTHER dash in the same direction. Again, jacky will remain backturned as long as you do it quickly, before he finishes the first dash. Once jacky has done two backturned dashes, you need to hesitate a tiny bit (like 4-6 frames) and then press P+K to do a turn towards backfist. The backfist, if timed correctly, will create an UNSTRUGGLABLE backstagger, the special kind that allows you to restagger the opponent. Now do an immediate punkick (f,f+K) and you'll see the opponent ass stumble again, this time it's strugglable. But that doesn't matter... because the puntkick causes a glitchy stagger that makes the enemy fall closer to you. After that, it's very easy to connect with a standard high damage knee combo.

other setups: Probably jacky's fastest followup to the backstagger is a double sidekick (after a small crouch dash) or a puntkick (afer a small forward dash). Jacky's got the three crumple tools listed above and df+P,P,P to start backstagger combos. Once the opponent is crumpled with high backfist, there are an endless number of easy and damaging followups to set up the backstagger. P,P,f+K is a good one. P, modified DF+P uppercut is stylish (both are after b+P MC). To stuff the roll you can use sidekick, puntkick, elbow, and the insanely difficult TT pump backfist. You can also show off and just swat the opponent with a non-stagger tool.. for example b+K+G would cause a pretty funny facial flop, and f+P+K,P should combo if timed correctly. Once the opponent is staggered you can go nuts... knee combos, slam combos, lightning storm, elbow-backfist floats, etc.

Shun
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OMP -> d+P -> OMP (opponent TR's) -> sidekick -> chouwan upper -> P -> chouwan upper -> df+P (ground attack)
[147 pts]

notes: Since shun's basic float combos never get too much damage, his backstagger combos pretty much suck. Do the FC, DF+P to crumple, buffer a low punch and immediately hold DF for a half second and execute another FC,DF+P. If you don't hold DF, you get shun's ground attack. Once the opponent TR's, dash or crouch dash up to them and sidekick. You can also use a df+PKG dodge to get the spacing you need. Once the opponent is staggered, dash up and do a standard QCF+P combo (qcf+P, P, qcf+P, df+P).

other setups: So far none. Vs. midweights and heavies, use d+P, db+P after the crumple. If you want a safer crumple followup than the chouwan, a modified DF+P (OMP) is a good bet.
Shun's a loser.

Wolf
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f+K+G -> f+P -> knee (opponent TR's) -> db+P -> knee -> P -> b+P -> pounce [194 pts]

notes: The f+K+G staggers, the f+P crumples, the knee sets up the tech roll. Dash and do a perfectly timed db+P elbow to get the backstagger, dash again and use either knee or shoulder ram to float the opponent. At this point the standard combo would be knee, P, b+P, pounce. That works against most character, but whiffs against aoi. Substitute f+P+K for b+P against aoi for the same damage.

charge P+K -> f+P -> SSR (opponent TR's) -> db+P -> stunner (hit throw) [174 pts]

notes: A stylish variation.. after the crumple, use a short shoulder (b,f+P+K) and then dash forward and do the db+P elbow stagger. Then dash forward again and do the b+K+G, P+G hit throw with the usual timing. The opponent will magically turn around and you'll notice that the db+P, b+K+G, P+G all register as one big combo for 81 pts.

Other setups: Wolf lacks really fast attacks to punish backstaggers with... you can try for an immediate b,f+P after the stagger or dash a hair and try to catch the struggling opponent with b+P -> pounce/ground throw. Besides charged P+K and f+K+G into f+P crumples, you can use a FC upper stagger or a wall stagger to connect a f+P crumple. These are easily struggled, for the most part. After a crumple, you can fool with fun stuff like modified uppercuts, but a knee or shoulder ram is the best damage and easy to do. To set up the backstagger, you can use HCB+P for variety, it's harder to do and 2 pts more damage. Once the opponent is backstaggered, knee/short shoulder floats and the b+K+G hit throw are best, I haven't found anything else that could be called useful or especially stylish. I've tried (with no luck) to land an uf+P into the tech roller's back, and go from that to the canned f+P+G hit throw. I can confirm that b+K+G-P+G doesn't work against the tech roller.. b+K+G hits but you're too far and the opponent is crouched.

Sarah
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shin slicer -> b+P+K (opponent QRs) -> [FL]sidekick -> [FL]low kick-hit throw [115 pts]

notes: The neatest looking backstagger in the game. Sarah's shin slicer leaves them face up, head towards... but magically after b+P+K they are face down, head away. From this position they can only be backstaggered if they QR. Assuming the opponent does this... wait a split second, then time a flamingo df+K for the backstagger. Dash forward while in stance, then do the d+K, P+G hit throw (which gives a unique animation from the back).

shin slicer -> b+P+K (opponent QRs) -> P(whiff)-sidekick -> dragon cannon -> P -> puntkick-sidekick
[133 pts]

notes: Using the same setup, exit flamingo with sarah's P, d+K canned combo. You have to wait a half second before using it. The sidekick back staggers, and you can dash forward and use a short and easy dragon cannon combo.

shin slicer -> b+P+K (QRed) -> P(whiff)-sidekick -> ub+K+G -> puntkick-sidekick [120 pts]

notes: The usual setup, use P-sidekick to backstagger, then use ub+K+G to slam the opponent into the floor. d+K,K hits them from the flop.

other setups: Sarah doesn't have any! She's lame. Still, the first combo is worth doing just to see it. Also, after the back dragon cannon float.. df+P,K tends to whiff, but P -> b+K -> kickflip works. Your fastest useful backstagger followup is a lunging knee if you're conservative.

Jeffry
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b,f+P -> K,K (opponent TR's) -> ff+P -> knee -> P -> headbutt -> pounce [193 pts]

notes: An easy and horribly damaging combo. After the K,K use f,f,f,f to dash forward twice quickly, then time pressing P to get the dashing elbow backstagger. Next, dash forward and knee the opponent in the back, be careful not to enter f,f+K and do a bigass boot instead. The rest of the combo is a standard anti-LW combo. If you fear the opponent escaping the pounce, you can use knee, P, K,K,P. Hold forward during the entire float combo.

mid hell stab -> b,df+P,P (TRed) -> ff+P -> kenka upper -> P -> kenka upper [150 pts]

notes: A little more stylish, jeffry can use the yoho trick described in akira's section to land a kenka upper to the opponent's back: Start with f+P+K (closed stance), do the starfleet maneuver, dash and get the dashing elbow stagger (the timing is pretty easy, delay a little)... then crouch dash with df, DF and press P at the latest possible instant to get a kenka upper. Remember not to start the df, DF motion until jeff is fully recovered from the f,f+P.

other setups: The safe followup to a backstagger is a sidekick, which is work to struggle out of. A f,f,+P,P combo is also fairly reliable. Jeffry can use all sorts of stuff after the b,f+P crumple but his options after the hell stab are limited pretty much to an immediate b,df+P,P or an immediate f,f+P,P... both require closed stance. To stagger the enemy you could conceivably use a regular elbow, but I can't think of any reason why you would try. Note that jeffry's hit throws won't work from behind, so your stagger followups are pretty much limited to bland float combos. For fun you can get crumple, f,f+P -> f,f+P -> f,f+P,P.

Kage
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[JM]P+K(hold) -> b+K+G (opponent TR's) -> sidekick -> uf+KG -> d+P+K,K [143 pts]

notes: Hold P+K to exit jumonji stance after crumpling the opponent. A b+K+G will hit on the bounce. Then dash forward, time a sidekick for the backstagger, and finish up with the uf+K+G -> d+P+K,K. Pretty easy.

[JM]P+K(hold) -> dragon punch (TRed)-> sidekick -> f+K+G -> dragon punch [137 pts]

notes: The dragon punch often turns into an accidental FC chop, which makes it a pain to use. However the timing for a sidekick stagger after the DP is easy... no forward dash is needed, and you do an almost immediate sidekick for the backstagger. The rest is a no brainer.

other setups: Kage's K+G crumples, but good luck finding a way to punish the TR... you can't exit jumonji stance after it without tapping guard, which takes too long. [JM]P+K is your only starter, and followups are limited to low-to-the-ground hits. Once the opponent is backstaggered, only flop combos are useful, kage has no good float combo starters here. f+K+G is your fastest useful followup. A nice variation after the uf+KG is to do a dash kickflip rather than the d+P+K,K.

Pai
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b+P -> f,f+P,K (opponent TR's) -> sidekick -> m-lifting palms -> K,P,K [148 pts]

notes: An easy one... b+P crumples on MC, f,f+P,K floats, they TR. You dash forward and time a sidekick into their back after a second of delay. Immediately crouch dash forward and use a FC,f+P to float the opponent. The rest is three easy button taps.

b,f,f+P+K -> d+P -> f,f+P,K -> sidekick -> m-lifting palms -> P -> K -> K,K -> ground punch
[191-204 pts]

notes: The damage listed is a little scary eh? A lot of it comes from the opponent allowing pai to connect with a fully charged b,f,f+P+K. Then, as if they didn't already make the biggest mistake of the round, they TR after pai does d+P -> f,f+P,K. Pai then dashes up, sidekick staggers, crouch dashes in for the FC,f+P float, and ends it with a jab, a kick, then a K,K combo that slams the opponent. You'll want to hold forward for the entire float combo. At this point, if everything went well, the opponent will be nearly dead, and they will have to struggle like crazy to prevent pai from dashing forward and delivering a ground punch to their head. If she does, they die, if she doesn't... the damage is still something like 98% of their life. The reason for the slight damage differential I've listed is this: After the crumple, pai can do a low punch, then f,f+P,K right away for 104 points, or she can delay the f,f+P,K a hair and get the low-to-floor damage bonus, which makes it 108 points. The other 10 points difference is based on whether or not the ground punch connects. I'm not sure if it's guaranteed.

b+P -> low punch -> f+K,K -> sidekick -> m-lifting palms -> P -> m-lifting palms -> SSK [138 pts]

notes: A slightly more difficult and funky pai combo. After the b+P MC you must do a half dash then low punch the opponent's head to create a slight rebounce effect. Then do a f+K,K and crouch dash into a sidekick for the backstagger. Crouch dash into FC, f+P, hold forward, do a jab, then immediately buffer a crouch dash and do another lifting palm when the jab recovers. End with an immediate uf+K. Then, if you're feeling cheeky... press u+P+K or d+P+K and see if you can catch them trying to TR again.

Other setups: If you're paranoid about the opponent struggling out of your stagger, pai can do a partial crouch dash into a heelkick, which is reasonably tough to struggle out of if you don't waste time with a longer-than-needed crouch dash. After either of the two crumple tools listed above, pai can create the strange "rebounce" effect with a well timed low punch (see akira section notes). However she cannot really capitalize on this the way akira can (i.e. she cannot land a lifting palm afterwards). One followup you can use after the low punch rebounce is to hold DF and go into a df+P,P,f+P combo, which allows time for a dash-and-sidekick backstagger. This is pretty hard and less damaging than other followups, so it's just for show. Yes, it is also possible to do b,f,f+P+K -> low punch (rebounce) -> df+P,P,K,K ... but the recovery sucks too much to allow for a backstagger afterwards. Once you have the opponent stumbling, no followup is better than the lifting palm, and your float combos afterwards are pretty much the same as the ones you'd usually use.

Lion
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meteor punch -> ff+K,K (TRed) -> sidekick -> uppercut -> P -> df+P,P -> df+P [149 pts]

notes: Bread and butter anti-TR. After the crumple, do f,f+K,K to set up the TR, then right at the end of a crouch dash, unleash a sidekick for the backstagger. Crouch dash forward fully and use a FC,f+P for the float (you may need to hesitate a hair) and then follow up with P, hold DF, and tap P,P to get the double swipe which slams the opponent. Dash forward and use another guaranteed df+P ground attack afterwards.

b+P+K -> b,f+P+K,P,P (opponent TR's)-> sidekick -> uppercut -> P -> K,K [172 pts]

notes: Damage represents a fully charged b+P+K, but without charge you can get this combo for 20 pts less. The combo must start from closed stance for the K,K at the end. The float combo is slightly different than the one listed above, but is almost the same damage.

b,df+P -> ff+K,K (TRed) -> sidekick -> uppercut -> P -> b,f+P+K -> uppercut [122 pts]

notes: A very difficult, flukey, and somewhat low damage anti-TR combo. Normally the face down and head away position is not for setting up anti-TR combos. The only way to get this one to work is the following: After the crumple, dash forward as close as possible (you can do two buffered forward dashes) then cut loose with f,f+K,K. Immediately crouch dash forward as far as possible and you will be almost on top of aoi's TRing body. Then time the sidekick so that it passes through aoi's body and collides with her just as she's getting up. If all goes well, the sidekick hits from the wrong direction and is considered a backstagger rather than a frontal stagger. I think this works because you're really close, and lion's sidekick tracks in one direction completely. So you get the buggy backstagger and yes, you also end up behind aoi.. lion sort of 180's her during the TR. The float combo is nifty but not that damaging... uppercut, jab, b,f+P+K (which is just a second jab but harder to do), buffer a crouch dash during the recovery, immediately execute FC,f+P.

(b,f+P+K,P,)P -> b,f+P+K,P,P (TRed) -> sidekick -> uppercut -> P -> b,f+P+K,P,P [127 pts]

notes: The Pecky Special. This is a cute one that relies on landing the surprise MC with the third hit of the b,f+P+K,P,P. From here delay a split second, then do another b,f+P+K,P,P. Again the 'on the bounce' trick is used.. timing the second one late in the crumple animation gets all three hits while an immediate b,f+P+K combo fails to connect fully. After the TR you do the usual sidekick backstagger, crouch dash uppercut.. then hold forward during the single jab and go into a third b,f+P+K,P,P combo. Low damage.

f,f+P -> m-uppercut (TRed)-> sidekick -> uppercut -> m-uppercut -> m-uppercut [147 pts]

notes: Lion crumples with f,f+P from open stance, then a quick crouch dash into FC, f+P floats for the TR. Crouch dash in and get a sidekick backstagger, then crouch dash in for the uppercut. Do two more tight modified uppercuts to finish. A nice looking combo.

b+P+K -> b,f+P+K -> b,f+P+K,P,P (opponent TR's) -> sidekick -> b,b+K,P+K -> K,K [162 pts]

notes: You get four hits and can get the damage up to 70 before the TR. At full charge it'd be 90, and the whole combo woul dbe 182 pts. Anyway, use the standard sidekick backstagger, dash forward, then quickly use a b,b+K,P+K float starter. Hold forward as you do the double kicks. It should be easier in open stance.

Other setups: Lion's got tons of crumple tools, tons of nice looking and damaging combos to start the TR, two or three backstagger tools, and tons of followups once the opponent is staggered and floated. For a damaging crumple into tech roll starter, use b+P+K, hold forward, K,K. Or try b,b+K,P+K. You can also start combos with the second hit of QCB+P,P if anyone gets surprised by that anymore. Lion can use the crumple bounce effect with b,f+P+K,P,P after stomach crumples, and you can also get the low punch bounce effect... which is put to good use in evo but doesn't seem to net anything in version C. For backstagger tools, your sidekick is the most user friendly, but if you have enough time after a crumple, you can dash forward and elbow stagger as well. I've tried, just for fun, a b,f+P+K,P,P stagger with the final hit, but have yet to pull it off. Once the opponent is staggered... you can go for a safe u+P+K or crouch dash in and gamble on a FC upper. You can also dash forward and get a P+K flop for fun, which combos into f,f+K,K or b+P,P.

Aoi
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double stop -> f+K,K (opponent TR's) -> sidekick -> knee -> PPPK [142 pts]

notes: b,df+P -> f+K,K... you see it all the time. Crouch dash in and after what seems like a long delay, deliver the sidekick to get the backstagger. Dash in and do a simple knee, PPPK float combo.

b+K+G -> f+K,K (opponent QR's) -> f+P+K -> uppercut -> K,K -> ground throw [155 pts]

notes: This might actually work in gameplay - the opponent is used to seeing crumple -> f+K,K and is scared to TR. But they're also scared of eating an unnecessary ground throw. So they QR. Little do they know that TRing in this situation is safe while QRing is suicide. Anyway do b+K+G in open stance, tap guard to turn around right away and f+K,K which puts them facedown, head away. Do a stylish f+P+K for the back stagger, dash, df+P to float, then hold forward and land a K,K. Press df+P+G immediately and aoi sprints up and ground throws them before they can recover. It's the cool arm break throw too.

b,f+P+K -> low punch -> f+K,K (TRed) -> sidekick -> knee -> df+P+K -> df+P+G [140 pts]

notes: After the crumple, time the low punch to create the crumple bounce effect described in other sections. You then can get f+K,K. You reward for doing the more difficult low punch rather than just f+K,K is 1 whole point of damage. After the TR, the sidekick backstagger into a knee is pretty standard. The df+P+K followup slams the opponent, and an immediate df+P+G from almost any range will allow you to get the cool arm break throw.

Other setups: A fast backstagger followup is f,f+P+K, but you need to allow aoi to dash a little to pull it off. Aoi's crumple tools are the ones listed above (b+K+G probably is not one of the better ones). You can use b,b+P+K for a low damage head crumple, which can be followed with P-X combos. For backstaggers... sidekick is best, elbow and f+P+K work about the same, and in theory a b,df+P is possible but the range is too short. Once they're staggered, there is no guaranteed hit throw or other weird option available, sticking to float combos is best. If it'll save anyone some time, I tried df+P+K into the back followed by a low back throw. It doesn't work.

Vanessa
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G,u+P -> d+P -> d+K+G (opponent TR's) -> sidekick -> f+K+G -> pounce [116 pts]

notes: My bread and butter anti-TR combo, I don't know if there's anything better for vanessa. Use G,u+P or G,d+P to set up a crumple, and time a low punch to cause the crumple-bounce effect. Immediately do a d+K+G sweep. At this point the opponent TR's, crouch dash in and deliver a sidekick for the back stagger, then dash close and do f+K+G (similar to the bryant's heel sword) and follow with a pounce.

d+K,P,P -> d+K+G -> sidekick -> f+K+G -> pounce [123 pts]

notes: Credit to sanjuro for this setup, it's similar to the jacky df+P,P,P setup.. do the combo, dash forward, use a db+K low kick to scrape them off the floor, then deliver a timely sidekick for the backstagger. No need to dash. At this point you're pretty far from the opponent so if you want to dash in and use f+K+G, you'll need to time it pretty well and be careful not to get f,f+K+G accidentally. It's easier if you crouch dash into f+K+G.

Other setups: Either I suck with vanessa, or vanessa sucks, pick one. There's the dodging elbow crumple and the dodging backhand crumple to start things, and I don't see a TR starter better than d+P, d+K+G. You can do d+P, hold DF immediately after, and then press K for a sidekick, which is 6 pts less damage. Once they're staggered, you can use b,f+P+K,P for a little less damage than the f+K+G, pounce. It's also quicker, but still slow enough to struggle out of. f,f+K might be your safest option. Yes, I tried f,f+K+G hit throw from behind (doesn't work) and the tackle throw (too slow and doesn't work).

Lei-Fei
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arrow punch -> b+P,P -> arrow punch -> puntkick -> [IN]K -> [DM]P,P+K [199 pts]

notes: This is the "I'll have mercy on you" anti-TR combo. At the end of it, try a late df+K and see if you stomp on the opponent's TR and crush their hopes. The way to do the combo is: go into DM stance (d+P+K+G) and charge P+K fully. The opponent will crumple. Remember, it seems like nobody should ever get hit with a fully charged charge attack, but this is lei fei we're dealing with. The arrow punch tracks like a bastard. Anyway, after the b+P,P the opponent TR's, you quickly tap d+P+K+G to get into stance again, then tap P+K after only a tiny delay to connect with an arrow punch backstagger. Immediately do a f,f+K puntkick and hold K to go into independent stance. Tap kick to launch the re-staggered opponent, then quickly tap d+P+K+G to go into DM stance, and immediately do a [DM]P,P+K (jab, double palm). The switch to DM stance and then the followup attacks must be fast. All in all a pretty neat combo, 3 or 4 stance changes. Challenging, but not nearly as hard as the next one.

b,f+P+K -> b+P,P (opponent TR's) -> arrow punch -> u+K,K -> puntkick -> puntkick
[203 pts]

notes: b,f+P+K crumples, b+P,P sets up the TR, immediately go into defensive stance with d+P+K+G. Hesitate a split second, then press P+K for a quick arrow punch, which will score a backstagger if timed correctly. Now comes the tricky part. Three or four things can happen when you try the u+K,K: it whiffs entirely. First part hits in the back, second part whiffs. Both hits connect, but they're considered frontal hits. The ideal result is that both hits connect and both are considered back hits. How to get that result? I don't know. Here's where I get best results:
-close range
-closed stance
-specific timing.. you want to hit as early as possible with the kick. But if you do it right away, it whiffs over their head. Too late, and they're considered half-turned-around, in which case the attack counts as a frontal hit.
-The leg closest to the screen is the leg lei fei has forward. For some reason, and this is probably just my imagination, the backstagger never works if lei fei spin kicks away from the screen, only if he spinkicks towards the screen do you get the back hit. It's almost like there's a stance issue, because when it fails it knocks the opponent further in the direction they were turning to face you, while a successful u+K seems to slap them in the opposite direction and prevent them from turning.
After the u+K,K...do an immediate f,f+K for even MORE backstaggering laughs. Again, if you're too slow it will connect as a frontal hit. Finally the opponent has a chance to struggle, but they're sure to eat a second puntkick since the first one drags them closer to you (like jacky's). Total damage is inanely high, more than a full lifebar. If you hate yourself, try doing this for variety: end the combo in f,f+K (hold for IN stance) -> K (floats) -> K. Or end in [IN]K -> [DM]P,P+K. Credit goes to the strategy revolution DVD for showing me the u+K,K thing.

Other setups: Lei fei has a zillion crumples.. P,P,P.. f+P,P,P(MC)...P+K,P,P(MC) ...FC,f+P...b+P,P...tiger stance P...you get the idea. Once they're crumpled, b+P,P is damaging and has quick enough recovery to punish the opponent. You can also do df,df+P,P for less damage. If you want something stylish, go into DM stance immediately with d+P+K+G and then use P,P+K against the crumpling opponent. You'll have to quickly re-enter DM stance to get the arrow punch. Once the opponent is TRing you can use arrow punch or puntkick to backstagger them. Possibly you can use one of the hits f+P+K, P but I can't pull it off. After the backstagger, if the opponent doesn't have a struggle icon yet, a puntkick should always be used for a re-stagger. From there you can use [IN]K to float them, or do a cute combo with [IN]d+K, [IN]K off the floor. Another fairly nice combo after the puntkick backstagger: uf+K+G, d+P, uf+K+G. At this point the opponent (even aoi) can tech roll, but the timing is so tight they'll probably fail and eat the df+K. Alternately, after the puntkick you can stay in normal stance and use df,df+P to float them. End with the usual d+P, uf+K+G, df+K stomp. If you start the combo with a fully charged arrow punch into b+P,P (99 damage) and end it with the df,df+P combo (108 pts) you have an instant death combo.
-----------------------
The end. I have a section of tips on how to deal with tech rolls and QR's, and it goes into more detail about how TRs and QRs work (the current guide on VFDC has some outdated/incomplete info). I'd like to integrate my stuff with the official VFDC guide, if possible. Myke's on vacation but maybe jeff wants to give it a look. The full guide can be found at:

http://userpages.prexar.com/meshe2/TRandQRguide.txt

Note that you should save it and work with it in wordpad, as there's no manual line breaks. It's meant for 80 column text editors. Viewing it in internet explorer will suck.

 

Outstanding. If there was one area that was lacking in my game (believe me, there's more than just one), it was good oki on chronic techrollers.

The trick is getting the timing right on the post-TR stuffs.

 

hey, glad you liked it.

To anyone having trouble with the lei fei thing, I think I figured it out.
First, I hear it's harder to connect in training than in real life. Second, I think the trick to keeping them backturned is this: If the opponent tech rolls towards the screen, you want lei to spin towards the screen too, which means his front foot must be the one closer to the screen. If your opponent is tech rolling upwards, you want the lead foot to be the one away from the screen.

243 pt lei anti-TR combo:
charged arrow punch -> b+P,P (TRed) -> arrow punch (backstagger) -> u+K,K (backstagger) -> puntkick (backstagger) -> df,df+P (float) -> d+P -> uf+K+G -> df+K. They'll probably be dead before you can finish it all /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

 

hey, pretty neat stuf u have there, /versus/images/icons/cool.gif

i did;nt know wolf can serve that much damage from a back stagger, the last one i saw was kyasao's FC d,df+p ~ f+p ~ b+k,k ~ (TRs) db+p ~ shoulder charge, can't remember the damage...

nice to see someone actually working on these, even though the smart ones just don't TR at all /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif

 

it's too bad nobody i play tech-rolls. /versus/images/icons/frown.gif I could deal out some serious damage if i mastered those.

 

Sadism Creed...like something an oral surgeon or animal tester might come up with. Nice.

I wonder if you considered Vane's as a set up akin to Jacky's . The needle's not in my arm right now so forgive me if this is completely stupid, but I'm thinking it might be worth a gander.

I'm laughing too hard to continue.

 

Creed, haven't had a chance to look at it carefully yet, but did skim through it. Are you sure some of the sequences are guaranteed after the back stagger? For example, it's pretty easy to struggle out of Kage's + from a back stagger.

 

Nah, a lot of these are probably strugglable. However you cannot set the cpu to struggle and I didn't have the inclination to record them all. As you can see by some of the low damage ones, the combos are for fun and the personal challenge of busting them out in training mode.

Well, I should say the backstagger followups are for entertainment purposes and the actual backstagger setups are the practical part of the guide.

 

Nice addition! With a f+K+G, pounce followup it's 124 points, assuming you use d+K+G to scrape the opponent off the floor. I'll throw it in there.

 

Cool stuff Creed. I have a friend who ALWAYS tr's...I should be able to do these about 5 times before he stops /versus/images/icons/grin.gif

Somebody should make a video of these, so we can see the timing of the more difficult ones. Of course, that means more people would practice these, but oh well.

 

Very well done Creed, I'd just like to added that this guide is only for vf4 ver.C. Since some people are playing on evo or will be playing with evo soon, some changes might be needed to be used in vf4evo.

 

oops, thanks. I'll correct the motion and add the version C disclaimer right now.

Glad to see you're sorta-back.
Did I mention I want your job?

 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Somebody should make a video of these, so we can see the timing of the more difficult ones. Of course, that means more people would practice these, but oh well.

[/ QUOTE ]

kyasao toys around with a couple in his all character training vids, he gets atleast one for each character in the mini combo arts at the end of each clip, and the'yre all guarenteed setups & combinations too... here (btw, all ver.C)

 

What you're talking about is probably the VF4 strategy revolution DVD. The clips from that DVD have been distributed on the internet with labels that say "Version B kyasao matches" or something like that. That was an accident, it's actually not done by kyasao (though possibly parts of it are done by him). I also think it's version C.

If I didn't remember to credit it yet, the clips on that DVD are where I got the kage backstagger setup and the lei fei combo of death, though in the DVD it ends with f,f+K -> [IN]K+G -> uf+K+G, stomp. The rest of the stuff I got via practice with the exception of sanjuro's entry and BMW, who originally figured out and capped the jacky b+P, bb+P thing (I have two small movies of that if anyone wants to see it.. get 'em from me on IRC).

 

CreeD, while doing some Jacky backstagger combos I somehow did two backstaggers using f,f+k twice. It wasn't the usual hit after backstagger that brings the person closer to u. I wanna say that the timing's just like Lei Fei's u+k,k in his backstagger combo but I'm not too sure. Just thought you'd wanna look in to this.

 

The only time f,f+K is involved in a backstagger and doesn't knock down is:

1. You use f,f+K as the move that starts the backstagger... i.e. b+P crumple, knee, dash, f,f+K to hit the TR.

2. If you set up the difficult b+P -> b,b+P -> backdash x 2 -> backturned P+K stagger, the puntkick afterwards will restagger. Anytime you stagger with a move that causes unstruggling stumble animation, you can then follow with a more typical backstagger tool like f,f+K and get a restagger. At this point it's strugglable.

Can you remember if either of these was what happened?

 

Hmmm... now that I think of it I don't think I did another puntkick. I know it wasn't the backstagger combo involving a TT p+k. I was practicing iaigeri kicks for Jacky then I did df,df+p from slide shuffle step. It crumpled and I tried to do some backstagger stuff for the hell of it.

It could have been Jacky's df+k but I'm positive that the kick after the initial puntkick stagger had a similar effect to Lei Fei's backstagger combo which has u+k,k hitting the back of the opponent. I couldn't recreate it afterwards though. I will try later on and see if I can remember exactly what I did.

 

If you can land a backstagger that isn't technically strugglable, a df+K+G might restagger. I tried iai to start the backstagger but of course it's too slow. FC upper in the back doesn't stagger. d+K is impossible to get. b+K doesn't net anything. I tried the second kick in df+K,K for the hell of it and that didn't work. I'm stumped as to what can start an unstrugglable backstagger for jacky (The way lei fei's arrow punch does for him). Once you get the unstrugglable stagger, puntkick and probably df+K+G will restagger.

 

Hey, after experimenting with this a little bit, I still don't have a move that will set up the double backstagger aside from backturned P+K. The good news is that I confirmed conditions for it. It might not be this involved, but I can get if the conditions are like this: Backturned P+K works If I see two chests and the opponent rolls upwards, or if I see two backs and the opponent rolls downwards. So it might be as tricky as the lei fei thing.
Once the opponent is backstaggered, df+K+G restaggers and knocks them closer to you.