Anti-TR Instant Death Guide

sup /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Ok, the wolf one is hard, and for a while I could never get it, and then suddenly I could. I remember bitching to people about it when I was still learning it. Credit to godeater (I think?) for originally showing it to me.

This is from memory....2 dashes towards the opponent's TRing body, slight delay before db+P. Once they're backstaggered, two dashes before shrm/knee (knee is easier to connect but shrm is a tiny bit better).

The delay for the db+P is tricky. Watch the top right corner where it says "Action". If the db+P fails and you don't see anything in that corner, then it's too early. If the db+P fails and you see "GUARD" in the top right corner then it was too late and it was guarded. If the db+P staggers the opponent normally (not a backstagger) ...I think it's just a hair late.

The only solution is to practice. The followup combo will come naturally after a couple of quick dashes, and you should try a couple of crouch dashes to see if it makes the spacing/timing easier for you.

 

k, thanx. I'll give it a shot!

 

Are low throws guaranteed in a backstagger situation ?
I always thougt it was, but didn't try in training mode till recently with vane. (cause I wasn't playing a char with low throws)
Theorically I believe LT are guaranteed because when the opp tech rolls in the face down he must be crouching somehow to eat the backstagger.So I tried to low throw after vane []++, +, + setup but I found it was quite impossible to LT the opp with the same timing as the sidekick stagger (which I can do quite consitently). The only way I found to successfully low throw the opp was to wait till the end of the tech roll, but I suppose this is just the fact that there is a moment after the tech roll where the opp is considered crouching if he doesn't attack and that it's not specific to the face down head toward situation.

Can someone help me on that ?

 

I think that was one of the training situations in the PS2 VF4 tutorial. If I remember correctly, you do recover in a crouched position after a TR. So a low throw should be guaranteed after a TR. I think you can still escape it though.

 

The thing is that, in this case the opponent can easily escape it by doing any attack I think. I was talking about a real guaranteed LT like the sidekick is guaranteed if the opp TRs in the face down head toward situation.

 

Ok thanks so it's not guaranteed /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif
By the low attack, you mean a low attack replacing the the sidekick backstagger and then going for a LT ?

 

I have a question on the Aoi combos. Is this VF4 only and not Evo? I've consistently found "knee" (6K?) can be blocked in time and even if they are lazy won't lift.

To avoid the training mode's CH problems I use her 46P+K as the combo starter. Otherwise additional hits register as CH. Also, with lifter to 3P+K they can just TR to evade the ground throw right? I know this slams them down and makes the TR harder.

So far I've only seen 66P+KP hit on the back and combo reliably post 3K BT TR wakes.

 

Still can't get the 6K to lift even on the lowest stuggle settings. In fact, all I can ever get to hit is the 66P+KP. Even if 6K hits them in stuggle it doesn't seem to lift. I know from 21+ wall stun it can, but then there's the wall right there so...

 

Aight, I'll give it a few more tries. Perhaps my dashing isn't quick enough, but... everytime they block or or it doesn't lift.

 

yeah, this should work, because it's a basic rule of VF's system that Middle Attacks will float during a stagger (to aviod endless re-staggering). There are a few specific exceptions, like Akira's P+K+G, Wolf's f+P etc., but I Aoi's knee and upper should float.

Spotlite

 

OK I'm back w/ more testing. Set the struggle level to osoi, TR to random and found the following things for Aoi.

Starter is always 3K.

-6K never lifts high enough for PPPK. P sometime hits depending on footstance and chara weight. But really nothing from there.

-3P also never lifts high enough for PPPK, but also single P will occasionally hit based on footstance and weight.

-From 6K or 3P based on weight/footstance 2P is sometimes guaranteed. From here, it is hard to TR 66P+K and then hard to TR from there. But possible.

-From 6K or 3P, 6P+K will always hit for 57~60 region. 3P will not work on the heavies.

-From 3P, 3P+K will hit based on weight, however, they can TR.

-The best is this: from 6K, 3P+K hits; and unless something is buggy in Training, they can't TR making the g.throw attempt free. I set it for every form of TR and they never did. 79 damage for 3K, 6K, 3P+K, g.throw. Add that to most face down combos sets them well over the 100 mark.

I don't know enough characters to do a full character thing, but we should do an Evo version of this.

For Aoi:
Easy reliable: 3K, 66P+KP - +58
Decent: 3K, 663P, 6P+K - +61
Difficult + damage: 3K, dash, 6K, 3P+K, g.throw - +79

 

can you guys please use the arrows, i thought i understood this number system but you seem to be listing no existent attacks. and btw i can't get a backstagger with aoi for the life of me, i dash in and delay her forward pushing mid kick and i try her dashing elbow and regular elbow but nothing works, anyone know of a vid showing her backstagger people? i dont get teh timing at all.

 

*Grins*

I guess that's Maxi's SC background showing through, right? *Wink*

SoundWave, one common mistake is to forget that your opponent has to techroll from the FACE DOWN, HEAD TOWARDS position in order to be able to backstagger them. That's usually achieved by head or gut crumble followed up by another hit to float.

Example for Aoi (NOT a good one because you're only tapping them after the crumble instead of doing a proper combo /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif)

+, , let them tech, ,

Timing's very specific, though. Keep practicing! If your kick goes through your rising opponent and never contacts, then you're too early. If it just scores a normal hit or is blocked, you're too late. Keep working on it and find the spot between these zones where you get the backstagger.

 

ya i know it has to be in taht specific position and i've tried to learn what puts people there since i use Aoi's crumples a lot, like a crumple into her +, works too right? ok i get the back stagger to work but WOW is the timing strict, afterwards though i try for her new dashing swipe to double palm and that sometimes connects, is that dependant on open/closed stance? and then i try dashing in and doing a knee or her uppercut and neither floats high enough for a combo it seems except if there's a wall there.

 

Sound:
Err only think I listed that wasn't on the move list is an assumed dash buffered 3P. 663P. If you don't let the stick back to neutral while doing the final 6 and slide to 3P you can do dash + 3P in fewer total execution frames.

For the back stagger, it's common off all her stun combos, just 3K. From here, I think it's easy to stuggle any of the ones listed aside rfom 66P+KP. Just drag the inputs on the final 6 so you dash a tiny bit before donig it. If you do it right it will hit on the back even if they struggle. The others I listed can all be stuggled out of.

Definately, based on your posts, just do 66P+KP. Shit, I know better combos, but my common opponent struggles everything very well.

Cas:
The conventions I user are derived from reading Japanese BBSes for so many years. The arrows here are nice, in fact, we use similar at SC.com. But even there, since I'm communicate for game tech with Japanese so much, I'm just used to typing numbers.

 

well i have no idea what this 3p is so could you please use the arrows.