Any VF5 Ideas ?

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At least remodeled in such a way that people who don't play the game would want to buy it..

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I don't get what you're trying to say here. People don't buy games like VF because they're looking to see how well the fighting styles are represented. They buy the game because it's a game, period. You sure as hell are not going to suddenly increase the number of VF4 sales because Vanessa had her Vale Tudo "Mount" animations slightly altered or Akira's pounce removed, etc. Please.

I understand that your opinion is that VF needs to be remodeled so accommodate a more realistic approach to the chosen fighting styles. But there's more to it here - this is all about YOU.

*You* like Vale Tudo. *You* think Vanessa is the shit because she's supposed to be a Vale Tudo fighter. *You* think her animations aren't perfect and that they should be remodeled. You cover your ass by applying the remodeling statement to all characters and give Akira's pounce as an example. Way to go. But what you really want is for Vanessa to be more like what *you* think it should be. Well, I got news for ya - no one gives a rat's ass about Vale Tudo. No one frickin cares about Vanessa and the moves she can't do from "Mount" that she *should* be able to do. So, please, do us all a favour, give it a frickin rest already about Vale Tudo, ok?

Jeez.

 

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CreeD said:

That's not a bad concept. Imagine this -

When in a position where you want to escape throws, you can either
1. Enter multiple throw escapes, then escape the throw and play the guessing game that results..
2. Enter one throw escape + a specific anti-throw-counterattack, i.e. if you just KNOW kage is doing to do a TFT you can enter b+P+G, ...then f+P+K (or something like that) and you would break kage's throw and go immediately into a canned counterattack for some small guaranteed damage against Kage. But by doing that you give up the ability to enter multiple throw escapes, you shouldn't be allowed to do guaranteed punishment against 2 or 3 different throws. (in the case of two throws that share the same escape, you can have different [direction]+P+K counterattacks for different throws).


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I like the different direction input for the counterattack. Also I'd imagine the first throws that would be candidates for a canned reversal would be the regular + throws ( which are used mostly as round enders or to confuse opp.'s O.S. cuz they dont take off much damage ).

One thing I'd like to see is an extended ground game in VF. Everybody should be able to mount or a facsimile of that and allow for a ground mount game with mount switching and reversing. Aswell as allowing a downed opponent to stay down and take a defensive posture from that position. This would allow the standing fighter a deeper "down attack" game with more options aswell. i.e. Akira is on his back and sticks his legs out defensively versus Lion. Lion could go in for a mount, but might get MC'ed by a well placed kick from Aki. But Lion could also opt. for a cartwheel over Aki to attempt a head mount instead or simply drop in with a knee at the end of the cartwheel. Aki could obviously dodge that attempt by rolling out but only if he hadnt commited to a defensive kick first. If Aki decides to roll out premptively from that ground defensive posture the normal Oki game would appply ( or a Back struggleable roll ). All this is a classic VF yomi game and an extra option for players to ease Okizeme tactics and offers an equitable reward and penalty. Also thinking that peeps with reversals could rev. the defender's kick into a mount or a lock and that the downed defender can also execute a "throw" i.e. a leg trip up ( kinda like wolf's side throw or for characters with flashier styles could execute some sort of leg split animation ).

I base all these on the current OS setup so these wouldnt be a far fetched transition or add-on to implement into the gameplay.

 

So shang, or should I call you dick /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif don't mind if I call you dick do you ? You're either a dumbass or an even bigger dumbass : I remember you saying, ''this thread is an utter waste of time'' so wtf are you still doing here? You wanna know what's funny ? The fact that you need pictures to get your point across. Know what you should do instead ?... Come up with more dick analogies, that's more your style /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

P.S. : Online thug talking to an online bitch. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif and SEE!!! I don't need pictures!!!

 

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MrWhite said:
One thing I'd like to see is an extended ground game in VF. Everybody should be able to mount or a facsimile of that and allow for a ground mount game with mount switching and reversing. Aswell as allowing a downed opponent to stay down and take a defensive posture from that position. This would allow the standing fighter a deeper "down attack" game with more options aswell. i.e. Akira is on his back and sticks his legs out defensively versus Lion. Lion could go in for a mount, but might get MC'ed by a well placed kick from Aki. But Lion could also opt. for a cartwheel over Aki to attempt a head mount instead or simply drop in with a knee at the end of the cartwheel. Aki could obviously dodge that attempt by rolling out but only if he hadnt commited to a defensive kick first. If Aki decides to roll out premptively from that ground defensive posture the normal Oki game would appply ( or a Back struggleable roll ). All this is a classic VF yomi game and an extra option for players to ease Okizeme tactics and offers an equitable reward and penalty. Also thinking that peeps with reversals could rev. the defender's kick into a mount or a lock and that the downed defender can also execute a "throw" i.e. a leg trip up ( kinda like wolf's side throw or for characters with flashier styles could execute some sort of leg split animation ).

I base all these on the current OS setup so these wouldnt be a far fetched transition or add-on to implement into the gameplay.

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I never really thought about it but that's a great idea. Vannessas ground game should be better than the other characters, it would make her more original. Jeffry, also could use a nice ground game.

 

Like the two distinct, separate, interchangable movesets aren't original enough?

</Vane apologist>

 

Yes, but it would give her that vale tudo feel that I think she needs. (just a litlle)

 

Jeezus people, can we stop the "Vanessa's Vale Tudo isn't totally AUTHENTIC waaaaah waaaaah" whining already? I don't think ANY of the martial arts presented in VF are totally, 100% "pure" or "authentic". Whatever she uses, she looks cool and KICKS YOUR ASS doing it, and that's what is important.

I don't think anybody playing VF5 with a few extra mount steps is gonna be saying, "You've got to see this Vanessa technique! It's got the VALE TUDO FEEL!!"

 

Breath in.... breath out, breath in.... breath out...

Why are you getting mad ? These are only ideas, nothing more. Personally I don't see the problem in giving her mounts or a better ground game. Will it make her weaker ? No ! ; Will it make her cheesy ? No ; ! Cheap ? No. What's wrong with the Vale Tudo feel ? What's so bad about it, that's getting you pissed off ?

 

I agree about the MA authenticity representation being of a secondary nature in VF. Wether Van does get extra mounts ( aswell as the rest of the peeps ) or not, the point is that they add to her arsenal of moves and keep adding to the depth and gameplay available to the player. The whole idea is to give the maximum amount of freedom ( see options ) and balance to both the attacker and the defender at any given time. To keep in the VF4 tradition of always having a way out of a situation or a setup or having a way to avoid being setup for those few guaranteed sequences. What I love about this game is that there is no "cheap". You earn everything you do ( especially on the defensive end ) and there's always a proper response for every situation. As far as Van's style goes, I say whatever works but a good place to start for inspiration is naturally from techniques emerging from the fighting style she is based upon.

I do have some pet-peeves that, although dont take away from the gameplay, do make me suspect. i.e. Wolf ( Western Wrestling ) & Jeff ( Pancrase ) have no mount games whatsoever. Thats like a boxer that doesnt have a Jab. Y'know ? /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif No big though.

 

Some people feel "if it's not broke, then don't fix it". Vanessa has an exceptionally diverse movelist and if I remember correctly she has the most moves overall of all VF characters. She has exceptional strikes, throws, some groundwork, and a solid defensive game making her a very balanced fighter. Her mutlitude of moves is one of the reasons she has few adopters among the VF elite. Adding more moves in all honesty would probably make her even less played IMO. VF already gives people a taste of what is available in each characters particular style. They do not show you every particular move that is associated with every particular situation, because that would take away from it's "Arcade" focus. VF has never been a Simulation game, but it does possess sim qualities. I would recommend games from the UFC, Pride, or Wild Ring series as alternatives that give more of a MMA focus as it seems you want.

On the point of a "Vale Tudo Feel" you have to also take into account that "Vale Tudo" is not a martial style in the traditional sense. It is merely a philosophy on martial arts like Jeet Kun Do was. The individual creates their own personal style by taking what they consider to be the strongest attacks/stances/grapples from various martial forms and utilizes them in a fashion that allows them to gain victory over their enemy. The thing is that JKD is based upon Chinese Martial Styles and Vale Tudo is steeped in Brazilian techniques as their true difference. People such as Inosanto, Ruas, and Gracie to name a few are forgetting what their systems are based upon and trying to market them as defined styles which they are not. This causes a bunch of problems with many people thinking that for example Vale Tudo is all about grapples, submissions, and piercing strikes. It does posses those elements, but is not "confined" by these methods.

Vanessa is practicing Vale Tudo, but she may not be practicing "your" perception of what Vale Tudo is. Everything you see in UFC/MMA/Pride/etc are particular variations of many of these things and their school/family styles. JKD, VT, and many other martial philosophies are not written in stone, but allowed to be dynamic and everchanging.

This is not an attack on anyone, but merely knowledge to help you understand the viewpoints of some.

 

You may also want to look at it this way. Vanessa is a security guard. Most security guards, bouncers, etc, would rather take out one person as quickly as possible and move on to the next. Ground fighting isn't advantageous against multiple attackers. That doesn't make Vale Tudo a bad style for a security guard to train in though, because Vale Tudo is much more than ground fighting. And given that viewpoint, it's understandable why Vanessa is "limited" while on the ground (which I don't think at all).

Besides, Vanessa resembles that mixed martial arts style much more in Evo than she did in version C. That's reason enough for me to be happy.

 

Thats true..but it is still no excuse for not giving her a few (or hell even one) joint locks such as an arm bar, knee bar, guillotine choke, etc while on the ground. While were at it, give Jeffry some ground work, being that out of all the styles his is the most ground intensive.

 

I agree, it would be nice if she had a some of that stuff. Who knows, they might add that stuff for the next VF. Even if they don't though, I'd still be happy with her.

And modern Pancratium (Pankration, Pancrase, Jeff's style has developed many different names) emphasizes groundwork, but it's not the most intensive with it. Some variants of Vale Tudo are heavy on groundwork.

The original Greek style did involve groundwork, but judging from the descriptions I've read on it, Jeff's representation is very close; beat the hell out of they other guy, but if they want to be on the ground, then so be it. The one difference is that these descriptions say that jointlocks were used whenever the opportunity arose. It's one of those "anything goes" styles rather than a "get them on the ground" style.

 

Well, from the two books I have from Jim Arvantes (sp? You should see a picture of this guy....HUGE afro heheh), the style focuses on elbows, knees, punches, kicks, and then beat the pulp out of the person on the ground.
http://www.spartanacademy.com/grandmaster/

 

I've been to that site before, and I've seen that guy (but not compared to other people, so I don't know how huge he is). But keep in mind, that's still a modern representation of an ancient art /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

Oh, I'm so sorry. I didn't see the afro part. I thought you said he was huge /versus/images/graemlins/crazy.gif That's my bad. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

And looking at this page at his own site...the guy is pretty big. He's built like Jeffrey, I can see where Sega got the idea from. Greek Martial Art Portal

 

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ONISTOMPA said:
I don't need pictures!!!

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I"m here to flame you... even a 2 year old can see that. yah man, I use pictures cuz 1, your stupidity is beyond words, and 2, there are so many people like you on the net the pictures are all pre-made already. But here is one I did for you, hope it makes you and your boyfriend feel better about your small size

 

Poor Shang... There are moderators you know?.. Well, it was nice seeing you around here! Bye /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

This post was edited by me, Sorry for the pics, but I'm angry.

 

Ummmm....you can't post pics of that nature. This isn't a porn site. Didn't you know that?

 

This thread has officially gone to shit, and needs to be closed. Nothing but a flame fest going on here.