Anyone got tips for fighting human opponents?

After playing the CPU for so long, I became accustomed to their stupidity and me being able to take advantage of certain situations. But recently, I faced a human opponent who in facing me was his first time playing this game. I found myself baffled from the slight beating I recieved. I tried to use advanced teqniques I learned from different tips and such, but it didnt work. I eventually won the match, but only by blocking all his moves and getting a few counter punches and jabs in.

Does anyone have any advice on facing human opponents? Also, how can I guess what is a guarenteed throw and when to throw, etc. I use Wolf particularly and have been successful so far, but I take a bit of damage from missed throws.

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

Play humans until you pass out /versus/images/icons/smile.gif That's the only valid advice - everything else is vs. experience. And although the forum might give you some general tips, they won't make you a better player. Human competition will.

 

GLC's got it right.. .experience will teach you the correct reactions to seeing different moves, especially the ones you haven't seen much from the computer. If you block something like pai's df+P,P.. or shun's low kick, or whatever, you can find out on VFDC what's possible afterwards, but playing vs. humans makes your reactions automatic... if you have to think about it, it's too late to do anything.

Beyond that the game boils down into an attack-or-throw guessing game, and the attacks you should try to use are the light jabs (basic high and low punches) rather than big moves (knees and shoulder rams). A high punch or low punch that clearly interrupts the enemy is a good opportunity to throw, and ONLY when they prove that they can get out of the throw should you start trying your big combo starters like knees and stuff (which should slaughter beginner-to-intermediate opponents as they try to avoid getting thrown).

If you play an elbow-capable character, the elbow is your best friend. For most characters, it's your fastest midlevel attack and often the second-fastest attack you have. If the elbow staggers, try for any throw, and again don't mix it up until your opponent proves they can get out of the throw.
If the elbow interrupts the opponent and you see a yellow flash when it hits (plus you see them get stunned slightly longer than)... try a throw. This works for characters like lau, akira, jacky, kage, etc. It's not guaranteed, but the opponent has a small window to try to get out of the throw and will need to get used to seeing it. Wolf, strangely, has a normal elbow that works pretty much the same way, but instead of being f+P like everoyne else's, it's db+P.

Lastly, VF is almost a "turn based" game. Each of you throws out pokes and once a poke hits, you must figure out based on the hit whether it's your turn to block or to attack. In general if you block an attack, it's your turn to attack or throw. If you get hit by a punch or low punch, you should focus on guard/escape. If you connect with your own low punch or high punch, it's your turn to attack again. Don't try to get out of a bad situation (where you've taken some damage from various pokes) by attacking. Learn to guard until it's safe to try your own attacks. Of course a smart opponent will predict when you will decide to stop attacking and start blocking, and may take advantage of this with a throw. That's ok, that's the nature of the game and what makes it fun.

 

Great tutorial, CreeD. I had no idea of this very basic approach to fighting humans...really clears up a lot of confusion on my part, and verifies what you see in most videos of high-level players. I guess I would have known this already if I played humans regularly, but I'm thankful somebody had the smarts to ask. I sure didn't.

 

Thanks, thats helpful. But unfortunately, the only human I play against are newbies and dont play with conventional means. (i.e. they dont use the throw guards, reversals, evades, and dont use guessing games, etc.) They just try to strike and combo and put a throw in there sometimes. So these terms dont apply to them until they practice the game, unfortunately they dont have access to the game unless they play with me.

Is there a way I could make an AI to play like a human would? Like, use tactics like a human and such? I have an AI Lau, but I havent worked on him, Im not good at making an AI.

But thanks for the help, it is useful.

 

There's no real way to practice and make it feel like practicing against a human. The closest is kumite mode, which isn't that hot at adapting and uses a lot of psychic BS.

The best you can do is practice specific situations that come up against decent human players all the time - you have a move blocked, and want to avoid punishment. Dodge and enter at least one throw escape (if your friends are scrubs, a basic P+G or f+P+G is likely to cover it). Try to struggle out of some common stagger situations. Block vanessa's flying crescent and try to struggle and avoid her f+P afterwards. Program training mode lau get an elbow stagger against you while you crouch, then struggle in time to guard or dodge his b,f+P. Let wolf land his f+K+G on you, and try to recover in time to block his f+P (I have no idea how doable this is). Block a low attack with pretty quick recovery and try to punish as quickly as possible with an elbow stagger --> throw (or elbow stagger --> combo). Using advanced recording, train lion to do f,f+P and b, df+P randomly, and try to block correctly by recognizing which animation/sound he's using. Train yourself to stand and guard and block sweeps on reflex, making sure to also program the computer to do a sidekick or elbow once in a while to fake you out. Try low throwing whiffed low punches (for example program akira to do dashing elbow -> low punch... then with wolf or jeff block it, and retaliate with a well-timed low throw when his low punch whiffs)

You get the idea I guess.
Even if your friends are scrubs, training your reflexes and your responses to throw counterable attacks is gonna be helpful to you. They probably throw out big moves all day and you just need to figure out which are throwable and which aren't... then throw them every time. If they're truly scrubs you can do your best throw, everyone has something that's good for at least 30-35%..
. Do the trial training (I forget which it is) where you can choose which enemy you face, and block some random moves... some of which are throw counterable and some of which are safe. Learn to recognize which is which and react accordingly.

Finally, VF is the opposite of SF in that you are generally safest guarding HIGH all the time, and blocking low is the only time you're really asking for trouble. Guard high all day vs. a buddy and see what he can come up with to punish you. If he tries a throw, that's good. But if he can only come up with sweeps... block them on reflex and punish, all sweeps can be violently punished if blocked with stuff like knees or elbows.

 

very good, mabye this could be an FAQ .. /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif

 

A friend of mine, who posts on these boards from time to time, is working on a VF-for-newbies faq that probably will have something similar to this. The guy's a good player and I'm sure he'll have something of use to everyone.

 

Just basic E-TEG training in free mode. Ex. with Akira, choose akira as opp. and record 3 diff. actions ->

1. Elbow ( f+P )
2. DJK ( f,f+KK )
3. Throw ( i.e. b, f+P+G )

Record these individual actions and set them all active at 33%. Now the comp will be a good dummy for E-TEG training. Your input should be dodge, f+P+G, hold on to G and let go of P. And repeat. If you get the hang of it you can move on to E-DTEG or E-BCD training.

 

don't forget to add something to help you know when akira's gonna attack... like have him do one of these three attacks after a dashing elbow, or after guarding for a second.

 

a cool technique against human opponents is the ol interceptive low punch ~ throw during a series of attacks by the opp /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif it almost never fails if u can vary which throw u use.. i even get caught myself when i'm off guard!

 

And THAT's why it's so damn stupid to teach an AI. Because playing against AI and against humans are different things, not harder to play against a human, or easier to play against a computer, because a computer can do many things a human can't, like automatically detecting the precise moment you press and throwing you (of course you can always escape throw, but you can't guess the throw (which leads to another thing an AI can do: guesses the throws/reversals you're going to use, thus escaping them..)). And a human opponent, EVEN THOUGH it may use combos, it can be unpredictable (even to the AI, just use stupid moves like / and you'll notice they'll hit many times..), as a human can make a combo, or do a STUPID thing (with stupid i mean something only a dumbass would do) that works! I tried playing against a friend, and making stuff i would never do, like playing turtle and then just use , a so on...and then change the rythm. You can't teach an AI this kind of stuff, because they learn by certain patterns, and they'll keep using ALWAYS the same patterns, being as predictable as an old lady in her eighties playing football. Remember something, an AI can defeat an opponent as a human can defeat an AI, they use the same patterns but if you counter them, they might "capture" that, and they will begin to do reversals or throw escapes at every chance they have. Don't tell me it's easy to defeat a High King Pai, because: or you're an asshole that never played a VF4 in a ps2, or you're a big fat liar, or you're something else i don't wanna know...

 

If you are fighting a button mashing noob, my tip is NOT to use throws too often, because of their button mashiness they can punch or kick you out of it mindlessly, when in the same situation a more experience player would be thinking "hmmm throw or punch, should i attack or defend? ahh i thought too slowly im being thrown"

also, dont do the same move over and over like you might against a human (big nono)

 

yes, i see your point, but i may be talking about humans in general... even beginners can be hezitative, there are lots of different types of n00bs..

but it's a good way to conquer a series of attacks & blocks