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Aoi close range offensive threats? Dunno if doing shit right

Discussion in 'Aoi' started by Reki, Aug 28, 2012.

  1. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

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    If you hold [2_], it takes 7 frames to reach a crouched state.

    If you crouch dash [3][3], then it takes 5 frames to reach a crouched state.

    In terms of recovery, I would suspect that [6][P] (-4) is going to be better than [6][P][P]~[G]. The former has nothing guaranteed against it, where the latter probably does? You can test this in two ways:

    1. CPU Guard and Counter Attack
    Set the CPU to guard then counter attack with [P] or Mid Attack, then peform [6][P][P]~[G] -- are you able to guard the attacks at all? If so, then you've confirmed that this is uncounterable by any attack. If not, then you might want to extend the tests further using record and playback:

    2. Record and Playback
    If you've already established above that a 11f, 12f or 14f attack will hit Aoi performing [6][P][P]~[G], then you might want to find how slow the attack needs to be before Aoi can guard. Do this by recording CPU Aoi performing [6][P][P][G], then play it back. After guarding the initial [6][P], gradually increase the execution speed of your counter attacks to find the point at which Aoi can guard. This will then tell you the effective "frame difference" for Aoi's [6][P][P]~[G].

    This is the real answer to the question "which is better?"
     
    Lord_Hollow likes this.
  2. Manjimaru

    Manjimaru Grumpy old man

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    Aoi has great options from disadvantage, like [4][P]+[K]+[G] tenchi stance and some other sabakis. However, the thing is that those options are not universal. They work against certain opponents options. Getting advantage by blocking and then doing a
    [6][P] is however about as universal as you can get. This is why pros are always preaching about elbows. It is the foundation of "utilizing your advantage". It forces opponent to defend or get hit.

    I used to say "First you learn the rules, then you can learn how to break the rules". Learning the rules means the basic advantage/disadvantage game of VF, breaking the rules refers to stuff like abare, sabakis, etc that in certain situations trump the basics.

    Going off on a tangent, some people may know the card game Magic: the gathering. What has made the game the most popular trading card game, is that while it has relatively simple ruleset, the cards trump the rules. There are cards that say "you can break this and this rule". You play according to the card. Like, basic rules say that you have one attack step during your turn. Then there are cards like relentless assault that say "you gain an additional attack step after your first one". You play according to the card. Similarly VF has the basic mindset of advantage/disadvantage, the "You attack I block, I attack you block" mindset. But there are also moves that trump this mindset, like sabakis, reversals, autoparries, sidestep etc. I think this is one of the treasures of VF, and understanding this will greatly enrich your play. However, you must first start by learning the basic rules.

    You could try after a while, to enter Aois tenchi stance after having your attack blocked and see if opponent attacks into it with his fast mids/highs..
     
    MannyBiggz likes this.
  3. Jeneric

    Jeneric Well-Known Member

    I've never met or played anyone who had such a tight nitaku game that it was to their disadvantage, not in Japan and surely not in the west. Players who have tight nitaku games at their base generally in my experience have better setups as well.
     
  4. Lord_Hollow

    Lord_Hollow Well-Known Member

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    Adding to the idea of not adhering to the rules, I have been working on getting comfortable interrupting strings with Tenchi. I am fully aware this may not be new tech, but I feel it can be very dangerous against opponents who like to tap out strings haphazardly.

     
  5. MannyBiggz

    MannyBiggz Well-Known Member

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    You misunderstand what I'm getting at. A lot of people that fall under that whole "playing with turns" mentality and can't shake it off tend to do so because of this very reason. I'm talking about the people who just stand there and never evade. Never set up backdash attempts to bait whiffs. Never use strong options that their character has built in to deal with certain options from disadvantage (tenchi in Aoi's case). All of that because they're stuck on the frames.

    Hope that clarifies what I mean.
     
    Lord_Hollow likes this.
  6. Lord_Hollow

    Lord_Hollow Well-Known Member

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    Im trying to break out of that myself, Manny. :D
     

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