Aoi move analysis

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by AlexMD, Oct 26, 2001.

  1. AlexMD

    AlexMD Well-Known Member Content Manager Lei

    VF4: AOI UMENOKOUJI New Move Analysis/ Old move changes

    Well the title is pretty self explanatory, as usual forgive my spelling etc : P too lazy to read through the whole thing and make corrections (or even use the spell check : P)

    The move names are from Virtua Project which is looking fantastic btw and has a great movelist which is very printer friendly, if you are gonna take a list down to the arcade this has all the same info + it ends up as less pages when printed which is very handy.

    Sorry if I missed anything, hope those that haven’t had a chance to play the game can get a decent idea of how she plays now : )

    I have yet to thoroughly test the sabaki against humans yet, but I’ll try and provide some impressions tomorrow night.

    Fellow Aoi players : P (Kbcat,Shoda Clinic,Kim etc) please feel free to correct my mistakes...thanks /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

    New Moves:

    Yin Yang Stance/ b+p+k+g, hold down pkg to remain in stance, can also be entered by holding pkg after d/f+p, f+k, pppk, pppd+k, d+k+g

    Aoi’s Yin Yang is basically all her old inashi’s from VF3 in one (HP, HK, MK, knee) it can be very useful indeed, the only problem that I find is unlike her old inashi’s you never really know what she’s going to reverse so you have to be a little more prepared, it can be a bit disconcerting when you are expecting a mid kick reversal and you get the HP reverse instead and have to quickly evaluate all your options.

    I assumed the YY would reverse rising kicks since it reverses normal mid kicks but it actually won’t reverse the standard circular rising kicks as I believe these are considered crescent kicks as that’s the animation you get trying to reverse them with your d/b+p+k reversal.

    I do think however that the YY would reverse linear rising kicks (unconfirmed) since I’ve seen CPU Aoi getting her standard mid kick reversal on Akira’s high rising kick.

    Your only options from YY other than the auto inashi’s are her evades (d or u), these are the spinning dodges you would have seen in the recent Chibita (Lion) versus Gerira (Aoi) clip, these evades are very handy and quite quick though so they are the perfect option from YY if you think your opponent has gotten wise and will try and kickflip you or something. Releasing pkg will get you back into your normal state but it takes an agonising amount of time (maybe 1 seconds or so, yeah well it feels like ages : P)

    Standing palm/ b,f+p followed by p+g for the hit throw

    This is basically a single palm attack followed immediately by a thrusting punch, it causes a non strugglable stagger animation on normal hit which I believe gives you a slight advantage?, the damage is fairly poor but it hits mid and pushes back a guarding opponent.

    It also links into her p+g hit throw which must be timed just as the second punch connects, my hit throw timing is a bit inconsistent so I’m not sure if this requires an MC?,it does pretty decent damage and is fairly safe so I’d say it’s definitely worth using just don’t expect it to turn the tide of a battle or anything : P

    Also of note although the two hits occur within a very small space of time the second punch seems to be reversible if the first is blocked, I’m pretty positive because I remember playing against someone today and he blocked the first hit then got Mced and hit thrown by the second.

    I think the move name is a little misleading so if anyone wants to think up a better name that would be great : ).

    Double Palm/ b,f+p+k

    Aoi basically does moves forward with both palms in front of her and sort of stomps on the ground (anyone who has played Street Fighter 3 think of Yun’s hcb+p)

    I was hoping this move was chargeable since it does cause KD on counter and it appeared too slow to be used as an interrupt but sadly it isn’t, the damage is fairly sad as well, if anyone finds a use for this move please let me know. : )

    Spinning Roundhouse-Body Blow/ f+k+g, p

    This is a high roundhouse kick which changes Aoi to open stance followed by a mid body blow, the body blow causes KD on NORMAL HIT but sadly you cannot delay the punch for combo/throw games : ( ,on the up side I believe this is a combo on MC as the high kick causes a nasty hit stagger in that situation.

    On the minus side you should use this very sparingly as the body blow is highly counterable and despite it looking quite heavy it doesn’t push the opponent back on block so expect to be thrown unless you save this for MC situations or just stop at the high kick if it’s blocked.

    Worship Kick/ b+k+g, leaves your back exposed

    Umm I’m not really sure what to think of this at the moment if it’s blocked your dead if it hits normally you might be able to save yourself with an evade or maybe CD, dash away or your back turned reversal.

    I remember hearing (from Jason Cha?) that this move was sabaki in the test but I haven’t been able to get it to work, perhaps it’s saving grace is that it puts her fairly low to the ground so it’s good for MCing high attacks, also if it does interrupt it causes the opponent to fall to the ground and you can tack on a TT d/b+k (maybe an evade f,+k,k?)

    I’m sure I actually scored an MC versus a low rising kick with this once but there seem to be many moves that can interrupt rising attacks now so who knows if it will be a worthwhile oki tactic in the future.

    Low Chop/ d/b+p

    This is an interesting new move the execution time seems a bit slow (even for a low attack), It’s real use is on MC where it causes a special strugglable stagger which guarantees a low throw if the opponent doesn’t struggle, and if they do try and come out of it swinging you can MC combo them : )

    I’m pretty sure CPU Jeff sidekicked me after blocking this so I pray to god it aint 16+ frames counterable : P

    Hit and Miss Destruction, Sleeve Accomplice/ FC,d/f+p then b+p+g for the MC hit throw

    Well the old FC,d/f+p is pretty much the same other than it no longer floats even when it MC’s, you need an MC for the b+p+g hit throw to be guaranteed and I’ve found it to be very reliably in a match (though I wish It wasn’t the same old b+p+g animation : P) not much more to say than that really.

    Reverse Body Flip/ f,f+p+g

    This is one of Aoi’s three new standing frontal throws, the damage is decent though not amazing and it looks nice and fancy : P.

    Unfortunately the escape is the same as her CD throw, and her HCF linker AND her new linker so using it to mC is not really a good idea, but as a run in throw to use in a guessing game it’s perfect.

    Falling Technique Combo/ u,b,d,f+p+g or d,b,u,f+p+g, linker HCF+k+g

    This is Aoi’s new linker, it does good damage but it’s tricky to use as a run in throw and in mC situations it’s easy to escape, also I’m not sure if the second part is escapable?, I assume it is though and unless you need amazing timing to get out of it this could be only usefull against newbies : P.

    During the throw animation she moves the oppoent around a bit before taking them to the ground and braking their arm, she then (the link) kicks them in the chest and they move some distance backward squirming in agony : )

    I find the easiest way to get this throw is to buffer it in during jab or low punch execution.

    Shiho Nage/ u,f,d,b+p+g or d,f,u,b+p+g

    I can’t really say much about this throw, It has the same escape as her b+p+g which aint so good, I find I get it mostly after jabs like the falling technique, it does good damage and looks cool to boot.

    Arm Lock And Break/ d/b+pkg

    This is Aoi’s new low throw and IT’s ABOUT BLOODY TIME ahem* well you’ve all seen this animation before she basically takes them down and breaks their arm, this is a fantastic and much needed addition to her move list, finally you don’t have to rely on her shoddy elbow as a mix up.

    OLD MOVES (with new properties)

    Turn Away Knife Hand-Escape b,b+p then u or d+p+k then p,f+p,p?

    Well I talked about this on the forum already so I’ll just cut and paste for convenience sake, thanks very much to Shoda Clinic for providing info on the p,f+p,p (though I have still yet to test it : P…if anyone else does before my next post on Saturday please post your impressions., SC says it’s a p string backwards

    You basically do Aoi's b,b+p and then you can cancel it with u+p+k or d+p+k at ANY point after you enter the command for the b,b+p up until just after it hits,she does a neato little dodge which leaves her in an ideal position to throw,this move seemed really interesting to me, Aoi has plenty of cancels but I've never seen one that can actually be cancelled both before and after it hits.

    If you do it really fast you can barely notice the b,b+p animation start it just does a nice spinning dodge,if you get hit during the starting frames you end up backward.

    Unfurling the Fan/ b,b+p+k, g cancel

    This move has become VERY useful now, it causes KD on Normal hit so it’s ideal for starting combo’s when you expect a throw as shown in the Chibita vs Gerira clip, in VF3 I rarely used this without g cancel) or saw anyone else use it but in VF4 I really think it will be seen quite often, it has the potential to be one of her main moves for snuffing high attacks.

    Knee/ f+k, pkg for canned YY stance

    The knee (MC) is a much better float tool this time around and works even on heavyweights, on normal hit it causes a small stagger type hit animation (which can’t be struggled) though it may not give you the initiative I think you can at least evade an opponents attacks, if it’s blocked you can use the canned Yin Yang stance to either reverse or dodge many attacks, judging from the clip of Akira Kid playing Aoi the threat of the canned YY reversal is often enough to cause the opponent to let you safely recover from the block stun : ).

    Also of note is that this attack now does damage to a crouch blocker as well as staggering them unlike in VF3 where it just staggers but does no damage.

    Sidekick/ d/f+k

    Aoi’s sidekick has been toned down somewhat from VF3, it no longer knocks down for high pounce on MC or causes small floats versus lightweights, instead it causes an animation where the opponent reels backward while holding their chest, this probably leaves you at just within sweep distance which isn’t exactly ideal for Aoi but at least you have enough time to evade or get into YY stance.

    On block or normal hit it’s pretty much the same old VF3 sidekick.

    Robe Wheel/ f,f+p, g cancel

    The Robe Wheel no longer knocks down on MC or on normal hit but always causes the opponent to reel backward like the sidekick MC.

    The best new property of this attack is that it pushes the opponent away on block (unfortunately the same can’t be said for f+p+k,p) so I believe if it’s counterable at all it would only be p counterable (it was only –10 in VF3 so I can’t see it being any more counterable than this), this is now a really good and safe mid range move but it is still a bit slow to execute (though the g cancel makes up for it)

    Grass Cutter/ d+k+g, g cancel, hold pkg for canned YY stance

    Aoi’s sweep no longer knocks down unless you are close? or if it MCs I actually find the fact that it doesn’t knock down to be beneficial since you are still able to evade the opponents attacks they are more likely to block after a bit of conditioning and be thrown.

    You also have the canned YY option available after the sweep which is another great addition, Aoi can really cause havoc in versus with all these new options.

    On MC it combo’s into f+k,k which is handy as well : )

    Heel Cut/ d/b+k

    This move is pretty much as it was in VF3 except that it no longer causes a standard float on MC but rather a knock down animation like her sweep on MC and like her sweep you can use the same options to combo.

    Double Stop/ b,d/f+p

    This move was a pretty good setup for high pounce in VF3 if it MCed but in VF4 it causes KD on MC which is soooo much better : ), it still isn’t the fastest move to interrupt but it does seem to avoid high attacks and recovers well on block, you really can’t ask for much more than that

    On a related note I was really worried that since pounces are so rare in VF4 that Aoi’s old moves that used to give you a guaranteed (or near guaranteed) pounce were gonna be crap, thank god Sega addressed this by making almost all of them combo starters instead.

    Sword Sleeve/ d/f+p, g cancel, pkg to enter YY stance

    This was Aoi’s most consistent MC float tool on MC in VF3 and the same can be said in 4, the only problem with this move is it’s execution also the g cancel is a bit early same as in 3.

    On the plus side it’s still uncounterable which is rare for such a good float tool, you are still also able to reliably dodge any non circular attacks should it hit as well.

    You also have a canned YY option with this move and I believe this to be her best canned YY move as she recovers fastest and can evade very reliably.

    Jumping Tile Strike Kick/ u+k+g

    This move aint that great anymore or at least it sin’t used as often or in the same situations, you can however use it to oki low rising attacks and I think it can even jump over high rising attacks if timed right (though I once ate the kick in mid air and was then combo’s against the wall : P.


    I think Aoi can reverse TA attacks now, I’m pretty sure I reversed Kage’s b,b+k
    Can someone test this? (Myke,Kbcat) hopefully I’ll get the chance tommorow but I have a habit of forgetting these things : P, can you see whether Akira etc can do this as well?.

    This doesn’t really help Aoi much but I did notice it seemed MUCH easier to dash toward the opponent with your back turned even if you aren’t holding block, (Yupa should be happy with this for his Sarah : P)

    <font color=blue> I move through the shadows with neither sound nor form, I ride the winds and command the storm </font color=blue>
  2. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Hey Doomboy, I just want to give a shout out for the excellent post. I play Aoi in VF3tb and look forward to playing her in 4, but since I haven't played VF4 for more than 5 hours I can't really contribute much to this thread yet.

    What are your impressions of her on an overall basis? Is she a stronger character in 4 than 3?
  3. AlexMD

    AlexMD Well-Known Member Content Manager Lei

    thanks, I was hoping someone would eventually notice my post /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

    Aoi is definately stronger in 4 due in no small part to her sabaki b p and f,b p which will reverse high punches, mid punches, elbow's,and high kicks, but not mid kicks,knees or flipkicks.

    Just imagine this scenario...Aoi's sidekick is blocked by Jacky you follow the blocked sidekick with Aoi's f,b p sabaki...if Jacky does any of the following you get the initiative back and take off a little health to boot...beatknuckle,punch,elbow,throw, and many more, and you know how often most people use these moves : )

    Now had you gone into Yin Yang instead of tried a Sabaki you can inashi elbows,HP,MP,HK,MK, and Knees automatically(though you are vulnerable to throws) .

    That covers a truly mind boggling amount of the opponents attacks, the result of this being brain freeze and defensive play leading to Aoi's forte (throwing the opponent around like a rag doll : P

    In VF3 Aoi was really very weak with her attacks and her MC combo's were hard to come was obvious you were supposed to throw but it was tricky to get the opponent to machi up (since they don't exactly fear her attacks like Wolf or Jeffry who can take almost half a bar with Knee combo's and such, her reversals and inashi were her best defensive options but unless the opponent was REALLY predictable they just weren't worth the effort.

    Now however she can really cover a lot of the opponents options and leave them with little else to do but block or attack with easily evaded and highly counterable moves "damn sabaki I'm gonna do a knee" "cursed Yin Yang I'm gonna flipkick" "ack I'd better do a low attack!, oh no is that a new low throw!?" : P

    Oh yeah, the canned YY stance after pppk,pppd k,sweep,knee and d/f p also bring a big smile to my face, it basically means instead of the opponent having guaranteed damage for blocking any of them they now face a guessing game, will she YY? sweep blocked by Jacky, the obvious VF3 Jacky mentality would be to elbow, but that would be inashi'd,eventually he'd wise up and throw or flipkick or which case YY evade (u or d) and I think you can GTE in the middle of it!, I'm pretty sure I did this versus Jeff,alternatively you could just let the sweep come out and his throw would wiff over your head.

    ahem,anyway I'm getting far too excited here so I'm gonna go lie down for a while /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif

    <font color=blue> I move through the shadows with neither sound nor form, I ride the winds and command the storm </font color=blue><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by {Doomboy} on 10/27/01 04:39 AM (server time).</FONT></P>
  4. AlexMD

    AlexMD Well-Known Member Content Manager Lei

    I wasn't going into the YY stance I was evading from the YY stance and the fact that you got a side throw is a good thing because that means Aoi wouldn't have to worry about people mixing up throws if she can indeed GTE during the YY evade.

    Oh and I'll shout out from the rooftops "Freddy did a sidethrow vs my YY dodge" but then you have to mention getting beat up by my one day old Lei Fei : P

    <font color=blue> I move through the shadows with neither sound nor form, I ride the winds and command the storm </font color=blue>
  5. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member


    <font color=red>~~~ ' IRC
    I Repeat Classes!/versus/images/icons/mad.gif~~~'
  6. AlexMD

    AlexMD Well-Known Member Content Manager Lei

    my bad, sorry snapped into arrogant hyper competitive dickhead mode momentarily : P

    thought you were bragging for some reason

    didn't mean to turn psycho on ya, should also take this opportunity to say thanks for helping me figure out the sabaki's in versus today

    there must have been some mad cow in that burger I had for lunch today /versus/images/icons/wink.gif

    <font color=blue> I move through the shadows with neither sound nor form, I ride the winds and command the storm </font color=blue><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by {Doomboy} on 10/27/01 07:16 AM (server time).</FONT></P>
  7. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member's not abt hyper competitive mode...nothing wrong with that~

    I simply do not remember reading u writing abt it being possible to be thrown during whatever stance u were abt to go into n stuff....

    That's why I brought up the subject~
    That is also why I deleted the post when I realised it was in there after all ( whether it be due to editing of the post on ur part, or blind ' eat while reading' on my part)

    Yah 'have no idea how to use pai' vs ur ' animal stance power' lei....if u had lost, I would have personally thrown u into an on-coming train!!~!!! /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif

    Good fun though..I'll get back to u when I get the chance to discuss with my friend abt the 'deal' ( U know what I am referring to( Think hard!)...but let's keep it between ourselves hehehehe)

    <font color=red>~~~ ' IRC
    I Repeat Classes!/versus/images/icons/mad.gif~~~'
  8. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member



    Ahem..thank god I had lamb instead~!

    <font color=red>~~~ ' IRC
    I Repeat Classes!/versus/images/icons/mad.gif~~~'
  9. AlexMD

    AlexMD Well-Known Member Content Manager Lei

    ground reversal

    btw, Aoi's ground reversal will only work in situations where you have recovered enough to side roll and use her other ground options as well, so unfortunately you can't do the ground reversal after Akira does d/f p g, d/f p unless he has REALLY bad timing : P same goes for trip hammer and d/f k followup as well /versus/images/icons/frown.gif

    Oh and Aoi can no longer crouch walk /versus/images/icons/frown.gif or at least not by the old method

    <font color=blue> I move through the shadows with neither sound nor form, I ride the winds and command the storm </font color=blue><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by {Doomboy} on 10/28/01 00:27 AM (server time).</FONT></P>
  10. Bedwettah

    Bedwettah Active Member

    Re: ground reversal

    Do you mean she can't hold the stick D/B and get away from the opponent anymore? Cuz that seemed really effective in vf3. Also did they slow Aoi down in vf4? Cuz in 3 she could really fly around the ring getting those throws. I figured they would tone her down a bit for vf4.

    Signature (up to 150 characters). You may use Markup in your signature
  11. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    Re: ground reversal

    Nice sig, dude!

    <A target="_blank" HREF=>[​IMG]</A>
  12. Yamcha

    Yamcha Well-Known Member

    That was a great read. Looks like the good start of an Aoi FAQ, heheh. I've drifted away from Aoi more in the past few weeks in VF4, but now that I've read this I'm psyched again to try this stuff with her.
  13. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    Double Stop/ b,d/f+p

    This move was a pretty good setup for high pounce in VF3 if it MCed but in VF4 it causes KD on MC which is soooo much better : ), it still isn’t the fastest move to interrupt but it does seem to avoid high attacks and recovers well on block, you really can’t ask for much more than that

    IMO, this is a great move now for Aoi, especially when it MCs. Here's a nasty combo flowchart which she can use after the b,df+P MCs:

    - f+KK, then
    - if opponent does nothing: f+K, then ground throw (df+P+G)
    - if opponent TRs (u or d+P+K+G): sidekick (df+K) to interrupt the roll. They recover crouched and backturned.

    The only way to avoid anything after the f+KK is to QR (P+K+G).
  14. AlexMD

    AlexMD Well-Known Member Content Manager Lei

    thanks Myke

    btw, can you do anything at all against quick rise from face down head toward?..they look like they are doing a single push up or something : P do you know if they can be low thrown?, apologies if this is in your arcadia notes too lazy to go look for it : P
  15. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    btw, can you do anything at all against quick rise from face down head toward?

    Off hand, I don't know if you can punish a QR from that position. I would probably hope that you couldn't because it's a vulnerable position to begin with and to have at least one safe way of getting up would be a Good Thing, IMO.

    Oh, I forgot to mention, in your move analysis post I didn't see you talk about DF+P - b+P+G. That's another awesome upgrade to an old move, and makes Aoi that little bit scarier in the crouched position, not to mention it looks sweet too. No special timing required either, just enter the b+P+G immediately after the attack. The neat thing is if the attack is blocked, you don't get a throw whiff!
  16. AlexMD

    AlexMD Well-Known Member Content Manager Lei

    "Oh, I forgot to mention, in your move analysis post I didn't see you talk about DF+P - b+P+G"

    It's in there, I listed it in the new move section for some reason,well the link is new : P

    I wrote this before my last session with the game so there are a many areas I can now expand upon or edit to take out a couple of errors just haven't gotten around to it yet /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif

    + didn't want my pluses to dissappear but I guess I wont be able to use that excuse anymore : P

    "The neat thing is if the attack is blocked, you don't get a throw whiff!"

    Yeah same for b,f+p, p+g! /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif
  17. shoda clinic

    shoda clinic Member

    Great post, and these analyses are pretty much accurate as far as I know.
    Here's some I know about her moves in addition to Doomboy's post.

    Standing palm/ b,f+p followed by p+g for the hit throw

    It does not require MC hit to connect to the throw. It's guaranteed when you inashi a roundhouse or low sweep(including rising kicks), or when you inashi high or mid kicks(except sidekicks) or right knee with the YY stance.

    Spinning Roundhouse-Body Blow/ f+k+g, p

    The second body blow is a sabaki. I think Aoi takes the initiative when it's blocked, but this move is easily dodged and during the sabaki motion she is vulnerable to throws. Although no one has really thrown me except the CPU.

    Worship Kick/ b+k+g, leaves your back exposed

    It evades high attacks and sabaki sidekicks. It's not counterable when guarded, and after it hits normally TA d+p might be a good option because Aoi takes the initiative when TA, d+p is hit, MC or blocked.

    Hit and Miss Destruction, Sleeve Accomplice/ FC,d/f+p then b+p+g for the MC hit throw

    >though I wish It wasn't the same old b+p+g animation
    Well, it is not the same old b+p+g animation, I suppose that you're just connecting the FC,d/f+p to the normal b+p+g throw. To execute this hit throw, not like the other one, you have to buffer b+p+g so early in FC, d/f+p before it hits. But FC, d/f+p MC to the various Ht is very effective. Ppl tend to take this option more since this hit throw does pitiful amount of damage.

    Reverse Body Flip/ f,f+p+g

    Nothing remarkable about this move, only it is a cool looking throw and it sobers a drunken old man.

    Double Stop/ b,d/f+p

    The fastest mid attack Aoi has, or maybe it is the fastest mid attack in VF4. I need more experiment though I'm thinking that it comes out in 11-12 frames.

    b+p and f,b+p

    These two moves are sabaki. I think b+p is more useful because it is faster than the other and Aoi takes the initiative when hit, MC, blocked or sabaki, but you can't really relay on its sabaki ability.

    I am trying to figure out a use of d/b+p and b,f+p+k. These two moves seems to be pretty much useless. I know the b,f+p+k crushes rising kicks but for that purpose using the f+k is much easier.

    Unfortunately, FC, d/f+p is counterable by Ht when guarded. So many moves are counterable by throws in VF4. For Aoi, these moves are known to be counterable by throw so far
    dodge attack(u or d then p+k+g)
  18. AlexMD

    AlexMD Well-Known Member Content Manager Lei

    thanks very much : )

    I didn't know any of that, I had no idea I was screwing up the MC D/f+p hit throw (good thing Myke missed it after all, *hangs head in shame* : P)

    I'm still not very good at interrupting rising kicks, do you hit them early in the animation or late? if you hit a rising kick with the knee does that mean you get the MC float?
  19. shoda clinic

    shoda clinic Member

    I'm still not very good at interrupting rising kicks, do you hit them early in the animation or late?
    I'm not good at it either, but I think that to interrupt rising kicks, you got to hit them early in animation and if you hit, you get the MC float. Aoi's not really good at interrupting rising kicks with her attacks, compared to other characters like Shun, Akira and Lion. But I like trying to inashi them a lot, especially it's easy to inashi non-delayed rising kicks.

    I just read the article it says that, after you inashi a mid rising kick, b,b+p+k is guaranteed. It probably works when you inashi a roundhouse too.

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