Aoi Vs. Shun

hmmm went bugis today.met a player who plays Shun.was obliterated by his Shun.he uses the uppercut(d,d/f,f + P i think) n starts his combos from there.the problem is the uppercut is so fast.any attacks tat i use will be interupted.so, Aoi players here and whoever who can offer their 2 cents, how can Aoi effectively play against Shun?thanks =)

 

btw..i use Aoi... =P

 

use more the unique weapon of Aoi, say:

1. b,b+P+K more -->this move is of high priority and when Aoi do this, she move back a little. You may use more this move as it can make your opp. mind dead. btw, it drains Shun's drunk point effectively. follow up by a simple P,P,P,K is enough to build up the damage.

2. P+K you can never notice this move effectiveness. It's the insulting slam by Aoi. really insulting for three slams in a series on the face of shun. it come out fast enough to interrupt move(imo), and also drain shun's dp.

3. (evade) and attack/throw -->though I cannot make it also.hehe.

may other's provide their methods for supp to the thread?

Hugo

 

Try to mix it up with PP strings (PPPK, PPPd+K, PP, f+P, P). The punch comes out faster than Shun's Chouwan, and since it's a punch string, you can keep the pressure on the opponent. A lot can come out of her punch strings and G-cancels (you do know about G-cancels, right?). Anyway, a few options:

a) PPPK and PPPd+K can lead into the Yin Yang(?) stance, which automatically inashis high and mid attacks. So try PPPK-> P+K+G or PPPd+K-> P+K+G to cover yourself if your punch string doesn't work.

b) PPf+P,P is a nice change once you see that the opponent is ducking because f+P hits mid, and I think that the P followup is guaranteed once it hits.

c) G-cancelling can really be helpful in keeping the opponent off base, which is what you want to do with Aoi. F'r instance:

PPPd+K(G-cancel) can lead to low throw, once you condition the opponent to duck
PPf+P, P or f+P, P(G-cancel) is a good throw setup.
f+P, P(G-cancel)-> b, df+P leads to Kuzure Down stagger, which can't be struggled out of. It has to hit as a counter. From there you can low throw (she has two d+P+K+G and df+P+K+G) or f+K, K and add on f+K if the opponent hasn't T-rolled (TR)

A few others:
a) You don't have to finish the punch strings. Every now and then use PP(G). Mix it in with b+P, which is a sabaki attack. I use it to cover myself, since it functions as an attack and an inashi against high and mid punches and kicks (I don't think it works on elbows, knees, flipkicks, I'm still figuring it out).

b) Throw, throw, throw. And ground throw when you can.

c) When the enemy gets predictable, use reversals. She has the most in the game, and some can be followed with a ground throw.

Shun is a lot slower than Aoi, so exploit this weakness. You want to pressure the opponent, keep him off balance, and throw when you can. Just my two cents.

 

hmmm the way i use Aoi is almost the same as the way u do.the Shun keeps interupting my rhythm wif the d,d/f,f+p.whenever i try to rush in he will let me eat tat and starts his combo when i float which takes off around 1/3 of my life bar?i didnt let him drink alot though.he got roughly abt 6-10 drinks.i basically was being interupted time after time when i wanna start my attack.his retaliation is fast.n i didnt get a chance to throw him at all.

 

Most of the advice I ever give is on a general level, more specific Aoi stuff is already posted on this thread and others are better at it. For me, I guess I try to stress general tactics and strategies with a few character-specific acknowledgements. Just my style... But as a result, you usually see me giving more machi-like advice because it's probably a general tactic/strategy that doesn't require too much specific knowledge (though such knowledge certainly maximizes your potential in any tactic or strategy). Anyways, on to my thoughts....

Definitely keep yourself on the lookout (and thus prepared) for a chouwan. This is pretty obvious, but always good to stress. Just be ready for it and prepare to defend the damn thing (as much as Shun is pretty safe when you generally defend it). Assuming that the chouwan is still uncounterable (I'll need to test it, I wouldn't be surprised if it's throw counterable), counter with a quick attack if you counter at all, but keep in mind that spacing and opening Shun up to attack are other options after defending.

If rhythm isn't a factor (though generally it always is against good opponents), I'd say you might want to experiment with b+P+K+G to sort of disrupt your opponent's flow (but be warned that you don't usually get a guarantee, but you get a decent advantage). Basically, if I think my opponent is not going for a low attack or a throw, b+P+K+G is an option I consider.

If Shun is whoring the low kicks, remember that you have a low reversal, but I advise you be able to block low kicks consistantly before reversing them.

b,b+P+K (G) is a nice way to open the gap in close combat, especially if your opponent likes to try to whore priorities such as Shun's low kick or sidekick. In quite a few cases, you can simply mC your opponent easily after doing this. db, db (retreating crouch dash) is a nice option too. I guess I should make it clear that I don't mind machi tactics and I consider myself to generally be pretty machi (but I counter-balance that with going for stuff a lot). But hey, if someone's hammering out some of Shun's quick attacks, I don't see anything wrong with opening him up and having to rework his rhythm.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, P+K strings are surprisingly good on a general level in VF4. I don't know how throw counterable they are, they may very well be extremely throw counterable, but I've gotten away with using those attacks so much in VF4, much more than in VF3 anyways.

-Chanchai

 

Of note...at the beginning of the round (still for some reason), you have no attack that can beat out the chouwan. It's pretty much guaranteed to win. All you can do, other than block or backdash is try to reverse it or YY it.

For dealing with shun, I've found her YY stance to be invaluable for throwing him off and starting your own rush. It has zero startup and if he doesn't swing, the dodge will get you out of the way fairly well (unless he throws you of course). Shun has virtually zero combo starters that aren't mid and high punches. (Ware the damn u+K, though)

I've actually had moderate success with f+K+G,P against rising attacks. Whiff the f+K+G just outside of his rising range and clock him with the punch, getting a crumple with guaranteed low throw or combo.

 

Aoi's sabaki will beat hp,mp,hk,and elbow only (not mid kicks) so you should be very carefull in using it if this Shun player uses mule kick floats and such.

If he's as offensive as he sounds than you should have no problems getting b,d/f+p combo's?.

I try to use attacks that recover fast enough to allow me an escape (eg p,p blocked p,p,k blocked, d/b+k hit, sidekick hit, low punch block or hit, d+k+g hit, p,k hit etc. after the escape I throw or if I'm worried a canned string will track me then evade and k,k or b,f+p hit throw)

I don't use these attacks to do damage but more as a distraction so the opponent will attack, and I can get an evade and once they stop attacking it's throw time! : P

Use plenty of jabs unless your opponent is good at stopping them with Shun's b,d/f+p or something (it's a HUGE help in getting offensive players to turtle up and facilitate throw games).

Sometimes I might do two or three punches blocked in a row on a Shun at which time he'll usually say either "okay I'd better try to interrupt with a punch in which case you can start a knee MC float combo or b,b+p+k and combo... b,d/f+p doesn't KD on MC versus jabs unfortunately : (

or he'll say "ack time for a low kick interrupt in which case you evade and low throw or block and low throw or low reversal (escape gte is the best option in this case I find, just in case the Shun tries to chuwan combo or something if you tried to reverse you'd get hit.

Good times to use the b,d/f+p are......

After a punch (blocked or hit)

After a low punch preferably interrupt (buffer in a backdash so the motion is b,b,d/f+p the last b that executes the backdash also counts as the first motion of the b,d/f+p

After sabaki hits...etc

I like b,b+p hit tap g b,d/f+p as well (well I think it's cool /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif)

Oh yeah, try and keep Shun at close range at all times, Aoi is a bit obvious from far away and can't do much damage, try to keep it in his face at all times, I remember the first couple of times I fought a good Shun player I made the mistake of giving him too much space to get into his stances and such.

http://www1.sphere.ne.jp/aoi-nt/maga/shun-k.html run this url through babelfish for an Aoi vs Shun counter list (just so you can make sure you're maximizing your damage on mC, there are counterlists versus the other characters as well btw at http://www1.sphere.ne.jp/aoi-nt/

sorry if these notes are a bit of a mess but It's 4am and I'm in zombie mode /versus/images/icons/wink.gif

 

yea i definitely must agree the chouwan is DAMN fast.rushed in for a P,P(G) was interupted on the second punch.and ate his combo which has something like a punch,low knife(i dunno wats tat called),sweep.it has some variations but it takes off a hellofa 1/3 life bar off me.... tat really shook me bad.he also rushed in n did a chouwan.n continued wif his combos.all my attacks will be most definitely be interupted by his chouwan.basically my Aoi who usually gets to attack was there helpless at his mercy =~~

 

hmmm b,b+p is a sabaki?i tot its her turn around punch?hmm b+p is a sabaki right?i remember slapping the computer's attacks away when i did the move.but then,the execution time for her b+p seems abit slow.

 

yeah b,b+p is her TA p, it isn't very fast I only use it followed by g to turn around then sabaki or b,d/f+p for surprise

Her b+p and f,b+p sabaki work versus hp,mp,elbow and hk
b+k+g works vs mid kicks and the p from her f+k+g,p canned combo I think works versus hp,mp,elbow,hk (but I'm not definite on this one)

 

i forgot to mention tat the Shun kept using his dodge move.boy was tat annoying.i have some enquiry about the b+p.any good times to use it?thanks =)

 

I find b+p to be only usefull occasionally, it really depends on the character you're fighting and also the style of the guy playing the character, for example against a Jacky or Lau who plays with a lot of elbow and high punch it can be great, but against people who use a lot of knees flipkicks and midkicks it often just isn't worth it.

The thing to keep in mind with Aoi's sabaki is that it isn't for dealing damage directly but more for giving you the initiative, so the usefulness of this move depends a great deal on your choice of followup, I like b,d/f+p for aggressive opponents mixed with throws for when they block.

hope that helps /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

 

hmm point taken.it seems i haven been using b,d/f+p very often.ill try it out.i onli seem to have problems with Shun.prolly cause of the chouwan.ill try it out.be back in 2 days.sigh.exams =(

keep u guys posted on my match wif Shun.ill try out u guys' suggestions.thanks~ =)

 

Practice makes perfect .
Aoi has awesome counters and her sway can be used effectively as well if you practice it .
Her bitchslaps can catch most opponents off guard and the advantage of having slow moves is that they can be cancelled really late to fool youre opponent and go for a low throw after a cancelled low roundhouse kick for instance .

 

Against overaggressive players, F+P,P G-cancel seems to work rather well. You can cancel really late after the elbow, then mid reverse or throw as necessary.

 

I know what you mean.
Does he do 2 chouwans in a row? or what is his major response to your blocking them??
I agree with doomboy,
it seems that your distance is mid range; this is why i think his punch keeps getting you.
I love sweeps, their cheap and many people get caught by them when you do g-cancels . damn its just fun when you get sweep them and sweep them on the ground then sweep after their rising attack - good way to annoy a good player.
But anyway, when i'm at close distance with any character, my eagerness wants to throw, but with opponents fast hands , i say get in close block any attack and go for a quick d+p. maybe even two to peck at him and make him go down or keep hold g.
That is when you should have something in mind. if he stays standing with me, I usually go for a sweep fake to see if he bites. if he doesn't, i eat the attack and keep it in mind and next time just do the sweep and fake it later.
if he does go down to block the sweep, i go and do the full sweep or fake again. most players will go to block the sweep/fake then follow up with a mid attack or d+p to also test what you're doing.

remember, d+p goes a long way, and aoi's sweep recovery is slow, so be careful it is blocked. but her fakes are very fast.
I also love the infamous d/f+p , g(cancel) followed by sweep.
very annoying because most think that you will throw or do high attack after that cancel.

Love you, always,

sweep-master fag-stino

 

yea u are right i play a mid-range game.still abit poor on a close-up game though cause where i play the people tend to abuse the low punch.(but this Shun player doesn't) and no he does't hit me with 2 Chowans in a row.

He hits me with a Chouwan and follows up wif a big damage combo when i float(which i usually do).when i block his Chouwan his will do either a quick punch or a low kick and duck away.so when i try to throw him ill be interupted by his punch.and when i try to rush in ill either be stopped by his low kick or dodging punch or a dodge and a Chouwan(tats the worst senario).

Although he does a standard combo when i float.he tends to mix up his attacks when he is on the offensive.And the way he plays Shun is very fast.I dunno how he does it but i feels faster than other Shuns i played against.

 

erm.pardon me for my typing errors hehe =P

 

i made a discovery.b,b + P+K is a nice move which will float an opponent when i MCs.got some success against my opponents with this move.

one more thing.f +K+G,P will cause the opponent to crumble for a low throw...tat's powerful man.execution still seem a bit slow though~