Aoi's b+P+K+G

Discussion in 'Aoi' started by KillaOfVanilla, Apr 30, 2006.

  1. I feel that Aoi's /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif only gets in the way while I'm fighting.Usually, the opponent doesn't fall for the move or he/she just cancels it with a /versus/images/commands/d.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif.The Aoi Guide said that I should use this move against Lau,but I need a strong attack or throw to follow it up.There are times when I /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif-/versus/images/commands/u.gif-/versus/images/commands/p.gif,but the /versus/images/commands/p.gif isn't strong enough to disorient the opponent.When the opponent does fall into the inashi, I don't know where to go from there. I'm usually too distant to throw the opponent or the attacks I use are blocked.

    /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gifSarah's rushing kicks are killing me. I try to end the rush with /versus/images/commands/d.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif ,but her fast low/mid kicks counter it all the time. I usually sit and block or I use /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif (which is not that effective). Same thing with Pai, /versus/images/graemlins/mad.gif some of her moves don't even fall into the inashi (like that flying scissors kick).

    Someone please update the Aoi Guide , I wanna know which moves I can use effectively against Brad and Goh.
     
  2. vanity

    vanity Well-Known Member

    In high level play aoi's YY stance (that's what we call it) is very sparingly used. And, if you do succeed with it, the standard followup is /versus/images/commands/f.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif. Although, succeeding with it on certain moves allow /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif (I think it's when you hit a spinning mid or high), but I don't play aoi.
     
  3. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    [ QUOTE ]
    vanity said:
    ... but I don't play aoi.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think that's the best advice to take from vanity.

    Aoi's YY stance is used a lot in high level play. The trick to using it is knowing when. Good times are usually when you're disadvantaged and the opponent tries to attack/poke back.

    It does not work against spinning (circular) attacks.

    Under the Aoi section (http://virtuafighter.com/vf4/aoi) read the guaranteed followups document. Although it was written for FT, most of it is still applicable to Evo. Knowing the correct followup to the different types of attacks parried will take some time and a lot of practice.
     
  4. vanity

    vanity Well-Known Member

    and i just realized that the /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/b.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif follow up only works if you actually counter with /versus/images/commands/b.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif, not YY (since as myke pointed out you can't counter circulars, thanks myke!)
     
  5. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    [ QUOTE ]
    vanity said:

    and i just realized that the /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/b.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif follow up only works if you actually counter with /versus/images/commands/b.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif, not YY (since as myke pointed out you can't counter circulars, thanks myke!)

    [/ QUOTE ]

    My pleasure, and, you're still wrong.

    The /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif is guaranteed after certain YY followups (hint: check the document I mentioned).

    It is also guaranteed after reversing a mid (/versus/images/commands/db.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif) or high (/versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif) circular kick, which is what you were probably referring to with only the high reversal command.
     
  6. vanity

    vanity Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    Myke said:

    [ QUOTE ]
    vanity said:

    and i just realized that the /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/b.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif follow up only works if you actually counter with /versus/images/commands/b.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif, not YY (since as myke pointed out you can't counter circulars, thanks myke!)

    [/ QUOTE ]

    My pleasure, and, you're still wrong.

    The /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif is guaranteed after certain YY followups (hint: check the document I mentioned).

    It is also guaranteed after reversing a mid (/versus/images/commands/db.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif) or high (/versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif) circular kick, which is what you were probably referring to with only the high reversal command.

    [/ QUOTE ] yeah i know calm down i don't play aoi and i said in my original post it was when you countered circulars /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
     
  7. Jerky

    Jerky Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    yeah i know calm down i don't play aoi (irrelevant babble)

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Vanity, this really needs to be said - shut up

    If someone asks a room full of people "How do I get to Queens from Brooklyn?" what fucking good is it for me (from Boston and confused as hell with NYC transit) to raise my hand and go "ooh! ooh! I know!!!!.. Um wait um, something about an "N" train and a left at the pizza parlor... um err YEAH THAT'S IT!"

    You don't play Aoi. You don't play against human opponents. You aren't expert level. Stop giving advice.
     
  8. Crazy_Galaxy

    Crazy_Galaxy Well-Known Member

    Hi, I play aoi,
    Myke has given good advice,
    also try to watch what your opponent does after you do a certain move, if you remember that situation it is a good time to use inashi stance,
    Example, if you went for /versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif and the opponent responds with a move that can be inashied, next time do /versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif and go straight into inashi then the right followup.
    The next time he will hesitate or change and this is where the fun of vf begins /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

    also just doing it from range and cancelling into the evade (with the side throw escape buffered p&G ) will stop or put doubt into the other players mind, eg : stop Lau from doing so many elbows, or ppp strings, which I hate!
     
  9. nin

    nin Well-Known Member

    My 2 cents:

    Playing as AOI is more about giving mental damage to the other player by using her inashis, reversals and sabakis. Once your opp. is confused , or you have made him to think twice before trying any attack, the game is yours!!

    Some of AOI's strengths are:
    1) YY stance(leads to good setup and OK damage
    2) quite a few good Sabaki moves
    3) She can almost reverse any moves in the game (but quite risky)

    Back to how to use YY stance effectively. First of all Myke's advices are good(he had a lot of (bad)experience from my AOI hehe). Second is try to predict your opponent's habit.....this comes to exp. and training. Also practicing the guaranteed follow up is a must!! Doing YY stance is consider as high risk, so you don't want to waste any possible damage when you have a successful inashi.
     
  10. vanity

    vanity Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    Jerky said:

    [ QUOTE ]
    yeah i know calm down i don't play aoi (irrelevant babble)

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Vanity, this really needs to be said - shut up

    If someone asks a room full of people "How do I get to Queens from Brooklyn?" what fucking good is it for me (from Boston and confused as hell with NYC transit) to raise my hand and go "ooh! ooh! I know!!!!.. Um wait um, something about an "N" train and a left at the pizza parlor... um err YEAH THAT'S IT!"

    You don't play Aoi. You don't play against human opponents. You aren't expert level. Stop giving advice.

    [/ QUOTE ] I don't play against human opponents? Shut the fuck up yes I do. The only difference is that they haven't evolved in their play like I have, so I'm winning games 10-0. When I face someone who's good, I'm not guaranteeing I'll win, but I don't see how they can be exponentially better than me.
     
  11. maddy

    maddy Well-Known Member

    Re: Aoi talk

    Welcome to VFDC.


    Aoi


    Strength:


    1. The best reversals in the game. She can reverse moves even when she's back turned.


    2. Strong throw games. Her throw game IMO is right up there with the best ones(Wolf, Goh, or Kage ,etc) 1P+G is hard to escape and has a great ring out potential.

    3. A 11 frames high P. A nightmare for someone who uses +2 setups often.

    4. The Ying Yang stance.

    5. Cancelable elbows.

    6. Great sabakies and two low throws.


    Weaknesses:


    1. She's the lightest character.(She takes a ton of combo damages)

    2. Lack of a 14 frame punisher(Hence her strong throw games)

    3. Lack of moves that can be used to discourage evade or used as a RN. (More so in Evo than FT. FT, she has 33P+K which floats on a normal hit. It still is not an easy command to throw out readily.)

    4. If you get good with her, people might hate playing against you and eventually end up hating you.


    -Useful moves-


    P


    A 11frames move. PK gives her +2 on hit. Since she doesn't have great moves to hit the opp out of a failed evade, delaying a high P is a pretty good option for her. After that 3P+K(the command of it in FT is 3P) is a legit flow chart(It can't be interrupted by a move) or you can go for one of the two 270 throws she has.

    Her PPP can be followed by K(knee) or 2K(sweep). PPPK is a special mid, so your opp tends to crouch when getting hit by the string. PPP, low throw becomes efffective in this situation.




    pp8pp / pp2pp

    A new string in FT. The third hit is high, and you can retreat after the third hit by inputting 4. The third hit is +1 on guard, +5 on a normal hit, so stopping there to move is also a good tactic.




    6P,P

    14 frames, the second P is cancelable with G.

    6P is +5 on a counter hit, so 6P, 3P+K(3P in FT) is a legit follow chart. The whole string of 6PP is guaranteed when 6P hits, but it leaves her in -1. Opponents who know this fact will use a LP after getting hit by 6PP, so make use of backdash side kick wisely to discourage it.




    6P+K, P(15 f, half circular)

    A 1 frame slower elbow. The second hit is NOT guaranteed on a normal hit. Useful when you block a delayed low rising attack(-15f) or when you are in a +3 situation.





    43P+K(16f, -4 on block)

    Useful in +4 or above situation. -1 on normal hit. A pretty good move, but in Evo, 3P+K is a better replacement. In FT, due to 3P+K's new command, the move is more useful when you block something in crouch.




    3P+K(3P in FT) (16f, -4,+1,+13)

    A great move that has a ton of damage potential and is uncounterable on block. 6P or 6P+K on a counter hit followed by this move is a legit flow chart and can't be interrtupted. +13 on a counterhit guarantees a low throw, but getting a guaranteed high P is recommended against an experienced opp.


    Application


    2P(hit +3),6P+K(counter hit +5), 3P+K(counter +13), P(normal hit +5), 3P+K(counter +13), P(normal hit +5).....

    You can replace any of the above with a throw.

    In, FT, due to its changed command, when you try to use 3P in crouch, 2_3P tends to come out. Replacing this move with 6P+K or 43P+K is recommended in that situation.




    44P+K(-13 on block)

    Useful due to its property. Because of the motion, this move dodges a lot of short& mid range attacks. Great when used upon wake up, but a P is guaranteed on block so use it sparingly.




    236P+K(-10 on block)

    A very useful sabaki against an elbow and throw nitaku game. Used in dis adv situation. Even though it's -10 on block, Kofu megane likes to use it one more time when it gets blocked, and suprisingly it seems to work well when it shoudn't. =P




    43P(13 f, +2 on counter hit)

    Useful in +1 situation to get +2.


    2K+G

    The fastest sweep in the game(19f). It can be canceled with G, you can go into YingYang with P+K+G after it.



    2_3P(15f)

    Another move with property that can lead to a hit throw on a counter hit. Low P(normal hit, +3) followed by 2_3P, 4P+G is a legit flow chart for an immidiate damage. 2P(on block), 2_3P also beats 2P and most elbows due to its property(the move goes under a LP), but it leaves you in -2 on hit, so use it as a finisher.




    6K(18f, -6 on block)

    Not as useful due to its slow execution. Her elbows give her +5, which is not enough for 6K to be a legit follow up. Useful upon opp's wakeup.




    Reversals

    Performed by 4P+K, 1P+K or 2P+K. When you reverse an elbow with 1P+K, a high pounce(8P) is guaranteed.

    When you reverse a mid full circular rising attack, 44P+K is guaranteed and 43P+K is guaranteed upon a reversal of a low circular rising attack.




    Ying-Yang

    Inashes all of mid and high attacks except circular attacks. A great option against Sarah's flamingo stance, Brad's ducking, and Lau's tiger stance, etc. Keep in mind that when you get hit out of Ying-Yang by a circular attack or a low attack, those hits are considered counter hits. 6PP or a high P is guaranteed upon any successful inashies. 44P+K is guaranteed upon an inashi of linier kick type move. 46P, P+G is guaranteed after inashing an elbow, but the timing is strict.




    Back turned moves

    Back turned 2P is a 11 frame true low move that gives +2 on a normal hit(holy shit). A mixup of 44P(a turn around move), then 2P or 44P, then a low throw is pretty effective when you condition your opp to duck to block a backturned 2P.




    Wall combos

    Any wall stagger caused by 3K, 66P,or 6P+K can be followed by 43P+K, 6KK, a ground throw or a high pounce for about 80-100 damage.


    Hope this helps, and PM me if you have any questions.
     
  12. Plague

    Plague Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    plague-cwa
    XBL:
    HowBoutSmPLAGUE
    [ QUOTE ]
    Jerky said:

    Vanity, this really needs to be said - shut up... Stop giving advice.



    [/ QUOTE ]

    I've played hundreds of games with tens of experienced players and thousands of Kumite and Quest matches. I will not give any Akira advice to anyone unless I'm 100% sure it's correct. I limit my advice severely:

    X: "How do you do SDE?"
    Plague: "/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif"

    -or-

    Y: "How do you beat NeoTower IRL?"
    Plague: "Make sure he's drunk, not using his main, and that you get REALLY lucky."
    Y: "That's nice. But what if he's sober and using Jacky?"
    Plague: "Fuck if I know. Ask someone with experience and skill."

    The only VF theory and system I'm comfortable discussing is so basic you might laugh. Therefore I usually don't discuss it. If I do discuss, I make sure it's credible.

    I admire your conviction and dedication to VF and spreading the good word. Please temper your posts with research or just wait for someone else to answer.
     
  13. Shag

    Shag Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    ShagPSN
    XBL:
    Shagnificent
    [ QUOTE ]
    Plague said:
    Y: "How do you beat NeoTower IRL?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The official answer by THE DARKNESS! /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif

    Take him to Frisco's. Make sure to seat him within view of the lovely car-hops. Have him eat a full meal with a shake. (Bonus: Subsitute shake with 2 mixed drinks for extra effect!) Then escort him out and just when he is taking his first step on the stairs still in blissful splendor; whack him across the back of his head! Guaranteed K.O. RINGOUT! /versus/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /versus/images/graemlins/blush.gif /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /versus/images/graemlins/lol.gif

    Ahem, now if the question was stated:

    "How do you beat NeoTower in VF in real life?"

    Then my response would be "Fuck if I know. Ask someone with experience and skill." heh heh



    P.S. Wish I thought of that plan sooner and used it on Kazu. /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     
  14. Maximus

    Maximus Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    vanity said:

    When I face someone who's good, I'm not guaranteeing I'll win, but I don't see how they can be exponentially better than me.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yes they can be, if you play the real players. You will get your ass handed unless you have experience against real life opponents. Read up and practice until you can even yourself out against those types of opponents. Until then just chill and hit the VF gym. I know I need to improve my inputs way more.
     
  15. Plague

    Plague Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    plague-cwa
    XBL:
    HowBoutSmPLAGUE
    [ QUOTE ]
    Shag said:
    Ahem, now if the question was stated:

    "How do you beat NeoTower in VF in real life?"

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I figured there was a Quest mode variant of NeoTower. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  16. kungfusmurf

    kungfusmurf Well-Known Member

    Now, I know what to do to Plague before I start playing against his Akira. I'll just use the DARKNESS tactics. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    /me Giggles
     
  17. Re: Aoi talk

    When Should I use /versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif//versus/images/commands/d.gif//versus/images/commands/b.gif//versus/images/commands/u.gif. I feel this throw can be affective against Jeffry and Wolf.
     
  18. Crazy_Galaxy

    Crazy_Galaxy Well-Known Member

    Re: Aoi talk

    use it for ring out's when /versus/images/commands/db.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif and /versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif is expected,
    the /versus/images/commands/f.gif one gives you /versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif guaranteed, then the usual options,

    the other directions it''s a high /versus/images/commands/p.gif mixup,
    elbow, sweep, throw, /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif etc
    I think (not 100% sure) only high /versus/images/commands/p.gif is guaranteed from the others so there not that good.
    Whether it make a difference on heavier characters it dosn't seem to...., perhaps someone else has something to say?
     
  19. Femto

    Femto Well-Known Member

    Re: Aoi talk

    [ QUOTE ]
    maddy said:


    4. If you get good with her, people might hate playing against you and eventually end up hating you.




    [/ QUOTE ]

    Too true. Also would like to throw in that you might turn off any potential VF player... /versus/images/graemlins/tear.gif
     
  20. Re: Aoi talk

    1.How can I get strong with the reversals? Should I do them after I punch or kick the opponent?

    Example:/versus/images/commands/d.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif - /versus/images/commands/db.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif /versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/d.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif/versus/images/commands/g.gif - /versus/images/commands/d.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif

    2.Could /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif pass for a sabaki or a combo starter?

    3.Should I throw after /versus/images/commands/d.gif/versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif

    4.And could you tell me all the moves I could use to enhance Aoi's Pressure Game?
     

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