Aoi's Version C Command List Errata

Discussion in 'General' started by Deniz, Jun 5, 2002.

  1. Deniz

    Deniz Well-Known Member

    I've been posting reversal levels for rising attacks in the character errata threads. I need to start this Aoi one so I can post hers.
    Reversal levels for Aoi's rising attacks:
    All of Aoi's low rising attacks are SW.
    Midlevel rising attacks:
    Face up feet towards: All are MCR.
    Face up head towards: All are SK.
    Face down feet towards:
    1. no roll (no delay): MK
    2. delay: SK
    3. longer delay: MCR
    4. sideroll: MK
    5. backroll: SK
    Face down head towards:
    1. no roll (no delay): MCR
    2. delay: MCR
    3. sideroll: SK
    4. backroll: MCR
     
  2. Deniz

    Deniz Well-Known Member

    1. The hit level for the PPPK Triple Punch, Knee should be M*.
    2. The PPPd+K Triple Punch, Sweep should have its reversal level corrected to SW.
    3. All the listed G-Cancel moves (PPPd+KG; PPf+PG; PPf+PPG; f+PPG; f+P+KPG) have damage ratings, hit levels, reversal levels, and Grd/Hit/MC frame advantage data. Is this in error? Or does it mean they actually can hit for damage? Are other G-Cancel moves that are only alluded to in the notes column (f,f+PG; b,b+P+KG; df+PG; KG; F+KG; d+K+GG) different from these?
    4. The PPf+P Double Punch, Chop needs to have its reversal level corrected to EL. It also needs a Crouch Stagger note.
    5. The following also need Crouch Stagger notes: f+P Elbow; df+K Side Kick; f+P+K Spinning Strike.
    6. In addition to what is listed for it, the f,b+P Chin Slap is a Sabaki vs. HE.
    7. Similarly, in addition to what is listed for it, the b+P Dodging Chop is also a Sabaki vs. HE.
    8. Both attacks of the b,f+P Standing Palms can be reversed as MP attacks.
    9. The db+P Low Smash has a "Shin Crush" note. What properties does such a move exhibit? It is also a low attack that recovers high.
    10. The "Slam on Float" note for the KK High Kick, Heel Drop can be deleted since it's a Force Crouch move.
    11. The f+K Knee needs a Crouch Guard Stagger note.
    12. The df+K Side Kick should have its reversal level updated to SK.
    13. The db+K Ankle Kick and the (back turned) df+K Ankle Kick are low attacks that recover high.
    14. The f+K+GP Spinning Roundhouse, Body Blow does not require an MC for a Stomach Crumble, and it is not a Force Crouch move.
    15.The (asc) P Hopping Chop, the (asc) K Hopkick, the (mid) K Hopping Kick, and the (desc) K Landing Side Kick cannot be reversed by normal reversals.
    16. The back turned d+P Smash should have its hit and reversal levels corrected to L and LP. It is also a low attack that recovers high.
    17. The back turned D+K Sweep needs a sweeping change; its hit and reversal levels should be H and HK.
    18. Here I go again: The b+K+G Back Heel Thrust is listed as a Sabaki vs. HP, MP, EL, HK, and MK. I am not able to make it work vs these reversal classes, so I think the note might be in error. However, it is very clearly a Sabaki vs SK attacks, which is not mentioned.
    19. The listed f+P+K+G Jump Kick wall attack is not in the game.

    As usual, more to come...
     
  3. Deniz

    Deniz Well-Known Member

    20. The D,f+P Rising Elbow is missing MC frame data.
    21. The back turned KK "High kick, Heel Drop" Slams on an Air Hit.
    22. The (back to wall) db+P+G Wall Hair Grab inflicting 50 damage does not exist in the game.
    23. The (side) P+G Rotary Throw should be divided into two entries: a (right side) P+G Rotary Throw, and a (left side) P+G Rotary Throw. There is a difference between the two in follow-up possibilities after an escape. The (right side) version leaves the opponents facing each other in a closed stance after a successful escape; an escaped (left side) Rotary Throw leaves them opposing each other in an open stance.
    24. The d+P+K+G Low Side Throw should also be split into (right side) and (left side) versions, for exactly the same reasons as the Rotary Throw. Of even greater interest, I was truly startled to discover how the Low Side Throw is escaped. One must tap in the direction of the opponent, and press P+G! Yes, P+G, NOT P+K+G. Am I getting overly excited -- is this already known? It definitely deserves mention on the Command List.

    Still more to come...
     
  4. Deniz

    Deniz Well-Known Member

    25. The YY Stance b+P+K+G will Sober (DP -1) when used to reverse EL, MP, or HP attacks, but not versus any of Shun's HK, MK, or SK attacks. It also Staggers versus all attack types. Myke, when you get around to separating the YY into functional variations, I suggest keeping a single entry for MP, HP, HE, and EL attacks; the results versus such attacks are identical.
    26. I have tested the YY stance vs. every move in the game that it could possibly reverse. It does not reverse some otherwise reversible moves, and it can reverse some moves that can't be reversed by "standard" P+K type reversals. It can reverse the following "irreversible" Aoi attacks, with the reversal level it uses versus each attack indicated in brackets: b, f+P Double Stop [MP]; P Hopping Chop [MP]; K Hopkick [MK]; K Hopping Kick [MK]; K Landing Side Kick [SK]. What I suggest for such moves, is a note saying something like "MK vs.YY" (substituting whatever is appropriate for MK), or "YY can't reverse." Myke: If it is okay with you, I will go to each specific character thread and post there which of those character's moves can only be reversed by YY (including the reversal level), and any otherwise reversible moves which are not YY-reversible. There are about 3 or 4 YY-only reversible moves for each character (mostly hop attacks)...
    27. As mentioned in the Wolf thread, Aoi has a special db+P+K "Low Kick" Reversal (with base damage 25) that she uses vs Wolf's f+K+G Rolling Sobat (which hits at midlevel); it has both a left leg and a right leg version. It comes out with the same animation as a d+P+K Low Kick Reversal.
    28. The base damage for the b+P+K High Elbow Reversal should be corrected from 25 to 30.
    29. The base damage for the db+P+K Mid Punch Reversal should be corrected from 30 to 25.
    30. The list is missing the db+P+K Mid Kick Reversal (actually two limb specific versions), with base damage 20.
    31. The Ground Reversal P+K is shown with reversal level G, but in the other character lists, GP and GK are used, and so there should be a P+K Ground Punch Reversal and a P+K Ground Kick Reversal listed. They also appear to cause a stagger that can't be struggled out of (no red joystick icon appears), vaguely similar to Kage's P+K Clap.
     
  5. Deniz

    Deniz Well-Known Member

    32. I had said: The Ground Reversal P+K is shown with reversal level G, but in the other character lists, GP and GK are used, and so there should be a P+K Ground Punch Reversal and a P+K Ground Kick Reversal listed. They also appear to cause a stagger that can't be struggled out of (no red joystick icon appears), vaguely similar to Kage's P+K Clap.
    More accurately, the stagger appears to be a stumble, and it only applies to the GK reversal, not the GP variant. Further, both the GK and GP reversals seem to leave the opponent back turned, so a note to that effect should be added.
    33. I think I may have uncovered another new move. Aoi has a low back throw that does 50 damage, with command d+P+K+G (or db+P+K+G), and it is not listed, nor does it even appear in the PS2 VF4 Command list, or the game manual.
    34. The alternative command for her Low Side Throw (which is a throw, come to think of it, that is not listed in the PS2 game either) is incorrect. It should be db+P+K+G, not df+P+K+G.
    35. I believe the b+P+K+G Ying-Yang stance should be separated into four separate entries: an HP/HE/MP/EL version; an MK/HK version; an SK version; and a KN version. Also, the SK and KN versions would each need a note saying the opponent recovers back turned.
     
  6. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    Reversal levels for Aoi's rising attacks:
    All of Aoi's low rising attacks are SW.
    Midlevel rising attacks:
    Face up feet towards: All are MCR.
    Face up head towards: All are SK.
    Face down feet towards:
    1. no roll (no delay): MK
    2. delay: SK
    3. longer delay: MCR
    4. sideroll: MK
    5. backroll: SK
    Face down head towards:
    1. no roll (no delay): MCR
    2. delay: MCR
    3. sideroll: SK
    4. backroll: MCR


    Rising attacks added, and reversal levels updated. Longer delay omitted for now due to lack of frame data.
    ________

    1. The hit level for the PPPK Triple Punch, Knee should be M*.

    Updated.

    2. The PPPd+K Triple Punch, Sweep should have its reversal level corrected to SW.

    Updated.

    3. All the listed G-Cancel moves (PPPd+KG; PPf+PG; PPf+PPG; f+PPG; f+P+KPG) have damage ratings, hit levels, reversal levels, and Grd/Hit/MC frame advantage data. Is this in error? Or does it mean they actually can hit for damage?

    What you see there is from the Blue Book, but they included the G-cancel data in parentheses. So, for example:

    /versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/d.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif: L, 20 pts, 19 exe, -15(-20) grd, -(-17) hit, -(-12) MC.

    I'd assume the hit and MC colums refer to the third P. You cannot hit and G-cancel with the same move. So, wanting to have the frame data sortable, I included the g-cancel variant as a separate entry, but mistakingly left in the damage and reversal levels. I've corrected the G-cancel entries.

    Are other G-Cancel moves that are only alluded to in the notes column (f,f+PG; b,b+P+KG; df+PG; KG; F+KG; d+K+GG) different from these?

    The only difference would be that the Blue Book didn't supply the g-cancel data.

    4. The PPf+P Double Punch, Chop needs to have its reversal level corrected to EL. It also needs a Crouch Stagger note.

    Updated.

    5. The following also need Crouch Stagger notes: f+P Elbow; df+K Side Kick; f+P+K Spinning Strike.

    Updated.

    6. In addition to what is listed for it, the f,b+P Chin Slap is a Sabaki vs. HE.
    7. Similarly, in addition to what is listed for it, the b+P Dodging Chop is also a Sabaki vs. HE.


    Updated.

    8. Both attacks of the b,f+P Standing Palms can be reversed as MP attacks.

    Updated.

    9. The db+P Low Smash has a "Shin Crush" note. What properties does such a move exhibit? It is also a low attack that recovers high.

    A "Shin Crush" is a special hit effect for Aoi's /versus/images/commands/db.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif. It's a low attack which Forces Crouch after an MC hit. I've now added this to the Command List legend, as well adding the recovery note.

    10. The "Slam on Float" note for the KK High Kick, Heel Drop can be deleted since it's a Force Crouch move.

    Updated.

    11. The f+K Knee needs a Crouch Guard Stagger note.

    Updated.

    12. The df+K Side Kick should have its reversal level updated to SK.

    Updated.

    13. The db+K Ankle Kick and the (back turned) df+K Ankle Kick are low attacks that recover high.

    Updated.

    14. The f+K+GP Spinning Roundhouse, Body Blow does not require an MC for a Stomach Crumble, and it is not a Force Crouch move.

    Updated.

    15.The (asc) P Hopping Chop, the (asc) K Hopkick, the (mid) K Hopping Kick, and the (desc) K Landing Side Kick cannot be reversed by normal reversals.

    Updated.

    16. The back turned d+P Smash should have its hit and reversal levels corrected to L and LP. It is also a low attack that recovers high.

    Updated. Also changed name from "Smash" to "Low Chop".

    17. The back turned D+K Sweep needs a sweeping change; its hit and reversal levels should be H and HK.

    Updated.

    18. Here I go again: The b+K+G Back Heel Thrust is listed as a Sabaki vs. HP, MP, EL, HK, and MK. I am not able to make it work vs these reversal classes, so I think the note might be in error. However, it is very clearly a Sabaki vs SK attacks, which is not mentioned.

    I recall some discussion in the past regarding this move and it's questionable sabaki properties. Now, after testing this far more than I'd like, I agree with your findings. The thing about this move is that Aoi turns around and crouches while she kicks, which allows for some high and mid attacks to completely miss her. I guess this may be construed as sabaki-like, but I'm going to change the sabaki note here and in the sabaki chart to only reflect the SK class.

    19. The listed f+P+K+G Jump Kick wall attack is not in the game.

    Updated.

    ________


    20. The D,f+P Rising Elbow is missing MC frame data.

    The D,df+P Rising Elbow is also missing MC frame data from the Blue/White Book. So I did some testing and found that after a Aoi's D,df+P MC hit:

    - Aoi's f+P (14f) loses to Akira's f+P (13f)
    - Aoi's f+P (14f) beats Akira's K (14f)

    Thus, Aoi must have a 1 frame advantage for the above to hold true. Updated the MC column to +1.

    21. The back turned KK "High kick, Heel Drop" Slams on an Air Hit.

    Updated.

    22. The (back to wall) db+P+G Wall Hair Grab inflicting 50 damage does not exist in the game.

    Updated.

    23. The (side) P+G Rotary Throw should be divided into two entries: a (right side) P+G Rotary Throw, and a (left side) P+G Rotary Throw. There is a difference between the two in follow-up possibilities after an escape. The (right side) version leaves the opponents facing each other in a closed stance after a successful escape; an escaped (left side) Rotary Throw leaves them opposing each other in an open stance.

    Updated.

    24. The d+P+K+G Low Side Throw should also be split into (right side) and (left side) versions, for exactly the same reasons as the Rotary Throw. Of even greater interest, I was truly startled to discover how the Low Side Throw is escaped. One must tap in the direction of the opponent, and press P+G! Yes, P+G, NOT P+K+G. Am I getting overly excited -- is this already known? It definitely deserves mention on the Command List.

    This oddity was posted by me ages ago in my VF4 Arcadia notes post. I'll put it into the Command List though. Another throw escape which seems to break the rules is Shun's 270 throw: /versus/images/commands/u.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/d.gif/versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif. Instead of being escaped with /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif, it must be done with /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif! I'll be adding it to Shun's Command List shortly.

    ________

    25. The YY Stance b+P+K+G will Sober (DP -1) when used to reverse EL, MP, or HP attacks, but not versus any of Shun's HK, MK, or SK attacks. It also Staggers versus all attack types. Myke, when you get around to separating the YY into functional variations, I suggest keeping a single entry for MP, HP, HE, and EL attacks; the results versus such attacks are identical.

    Updated. Ying-Yang Stance inashis are now under the reversal section.

    26. I have tested the YY stance vs. every move in the game that it could possibly reverse. It does not reverse some otherwise reversible moves, and it can reverse some moves that can't be reversed by "standard" P+K type reversals. It can reverse the following "irreversible" Aoi attacks, with the reversal level it uses versus each attack indicated in brackets: b, f+P Double Stop [MP]; P Hopping Chop [MP]; K Hopkick [MK]; K Hopping Kick [MK]; K Landing Side Kick [SK]. What I suggest for such moves, is a note saying something like "MK vs.YY" (substituting whatever is appropriate for MK), or "YY can't reverse."

    b,f+P is already MP reversible, so no change here.
    (asc) P Hopping Chop - Updated.
    (asc) K Hopkick - Updated.
    (mid) K Hopping Kick - Updated.
    (desc) K Landing Side Kick - Updated.

    Myke: If it is okay with you, I will go to each specific character thread and post there which of those character's moves can only be reversed by YY (including the reversal level), and any otherwise reversible moves which are not YY-reversible. There are about 3 or 4 YY-only reversible moves for each character (mostly hop attacks)...

    These inconsistencies with the game engine are a little frustrating to me. Anyway, yeah, if you don't mind, I'd appreciate if you could update the chara threads with this new info. However, if it's a global property of Aoi's YY stance in that it can inashi any hop attack, then would the notes become redundant?

    27. As mentioned in the Wolf thread, Aoi has a special db+P+K "Low Kick" Reversal (with base damage 25) that she uses vs Wolf's f+K+G Rolling Sobat (which hits at midlevel); it has both a left leg and a right leg version. It comes out with the same animation as a d+P+K Low Kick Reversal.

    This is indeed strange, and I'm not sure how I should note this. I think a once-only note against Wolf's f+K+G to the effect of "when reversed, animates as a low kick reversal" should cover it.

    28. The base damage for the b+P+K High Elbow Reversal should be corrected from 25 to 30.

    Updated.

    29. The base damage for the db+P+K Mid Punch Reversal should be corrected from 30 to 25.

    Updated.

    30. The list is missing the db+P+K Mid Kick Reversal (actually two limb specific versions), with base damage 20.

    Updated.

    31. The Ground Reversal P+K is shown with reversal level G, but in the other character lists, GP and GK are used, and so there should be a P+K Ground Punch Reversal and a P+K Ground Kick Reversal listed. They also appear to cause a stagger that can't be struggled out of (no red joystick icon appears), vaguely similar to Kage's P+K Clap.

    Updated. I don't think these cause 'staggers' though. The opponent goes through some kind of off-balancing/tumbling animation that can't be reduced. It's more or less like a fancy surprise exchange throw.

    ________

    32. I had said: The Ground Reversal P+K is shown with reversal level G, but in the other character lists, GP and GK are used, and so there should be a P+K Ground Punch Reversal and a P+K Ground Kick Reversal listed. They also appear to cause a stagger that can't be struggled out of (no red joystick icon appears), vaguely similar to Kage's P+K Clap.
    More accurately, the stagger appears to be a stumble, and it only applies to the GK reversal, not the GP variant. Further, both the GK and GP reversals seem to leave the opponent back turned, so a note to that effect should be added.


    Again, for the reasons stated above, I don't think it's a stumble either (and actually looks nothing like the 'stumble'!?) but rather a surprise exchange using the opponent's attacking limb. I've added a note regarding the opponent recovering back turned.

    33. I think I may have uncovered another new move. Aoi has a low back throw that does 50 damage, with command d+P+K+G (or db+P+K+G), and it is not listed, nor does it even appear in the PS2 VF4 Command list, or the game manual.

    Updated.

    34. The alternative command for her Low Side Throw (which is a throw, come to think of it, that is not listed in the PS2 game either) is incorrect. It should be db+P+K+G, not df+P+K+G.

    Updated.

    35. I believe the b+P+K+G Ying-Yang stance should be separated into four separate entries: an HP/HE/MP/EL version; an MK/HK version; an SK version; and a KN version. Also, the SK and KN versions would each need a note saying the opponent recovers back turned.

    Updated.

    ________

    In general, there's been a reorganisation of moves into the new 'Special Actions' section, as well as an overhaul in the 'Reversals' section.

    *phew*
     
  7. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    Regarding the reversal for Wolf's Rolling Sobat f+K+G I wrote:

    This is indeed strange, and I'm not sure how I should note this. I think a once-only note against Wolf's f+K+G to the effect of "when reversed, animates as a low kick reversal" should cover it.

    Now after further thought, I've agreed to add this to Aoi's Reversal Section.
     
  8. agios_katastrof

    agios_katastrof Well-Known Member

    f+k+g,p sabaki

    Isn't the p in f+k+g,p a sabaki? I've just noticed that it wasn't noted so in the charts. Against what attacks, I am not sure (I'm a lazy scrub).
     
  9. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    Re: f+k+g,p sabaki

    how abt...u tell us the proper command aye?
    he has no f+k+g move.
     
  10. agios_katastrof

    agios_katastrof Well-Known Member

    Re: f+k+g,p sabaki

    I'm assuming that you have this thread confused with another. Aoi, a she, /versus/images/icons/smile.gif does have a f+k+g.
     
  11. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    Re: f+k+g,p sabaki

    hahaha
    u're right
    hahahahaha
     

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