Apparently Jeffry is just a weak-ass joke

Jeff is likely the weakest character in VF4 Evo. I hate it, because he's my favorite character (i identify with him most - same ethnicity, hair, and so forth). At higher levels of play, i guess Jeff is either too slow or just doesn't have enough viable weapons. I'm put on the defensive immediately at the beginning of the round (speed difference) and poked to death by safe attacks. No openings to try Jeff's overrated nitaku situations.

And i guess i'm not the only one who thinks so (although it seriously hurts to admit it). Looking at the character usage stats from Kakutou Shinseioki 2, Jeff was used the least next to Brad and Goh. (I don't even want to talk about Shun, who's my second favorite character).

And here i thought i just sucked at the game (well, i DO, actually) when it became so difficult to get a win against higher ranked opponents in Quest mode using Jeff. Then i get a Jacky and a Kage up there and 'lo and behold I'm holding my own. Turns out Jeff is just a weak-assed phony. Who knew? I guess that's why he's an "intermediate" character.

I don't know. I guess i go through this every iteration of the game. Jeff just ends up being too slow or too predictable and i end up having to play cheap-ass Jacky. Maybe i'm missin something, but i doubt it.

</pouty rant>

 

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Maybe i'm missin something, but i doubt it

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yup...the problem lies entirely with u~

 

this reminds me of the Akira thread /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif. We should change "Character Technique & Training" to "My Character's Weak & Complaining".

IMO, Evo Jeffry is arguably a top tier character, with great Attacks, Throws, and Combos, in addition to being pretty easy to manipulate. I will say that being able to Guard well is really important for Jeffry, and you'll need good timing/yomi.

Otherwise, Jeffry is a total powerhouse.

Spotlite

 

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I don't know. I guess i go through this every iteration of the game. Jeff just ends up being too slow or too predictable and i end up having to play cheap-ass Jacky. Maybe i'm missin something, but i doubt it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Alot of the time when I see Special Ed children play as Jeffery while blind folded, he's pretty slow too. I think the reason lies within the fact that when those mentally challenged kids are playing the game blind folded on top of their disabled motor skills, there is just not very much commands inputed by the players. Alot of the time they will just walk away not knowing what's going on and Jeffery will just stand there and get pummeled by his opponent. He looks so helpless as stage 1 Lion CPU kills him with insanely delayed d+k and f+p, and eventually lose through time over. Jeffery just doesn't have anything to counteract since he's just standing there without anyone inputting commands. This just shows you how much of a weak-ass joke he is.

/versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

The above statements were made to illustrate the point that how good your character is is solely dependent on how well he or she is played by the player. Anyone can make a character good or bad, it just takes skills.

 

To quickly jump in:

Back in Version B/C, when Jeffry was stronger, usage statistics in Japan are about the same as they are now. For some reason, he's just not a popular character.

 

[ QUOTE ]
ice-9 said:

To quickly jump in:

Back in Version B/C, when Jeffry was stronger, usage statistics in Japan are about the same as they are now. For some reason, he's just not a popular character.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? This makes more sense. Because Jeff is basically a decent character... it's just that he doesn't have any neat little shoulder rams or cutesy low drop kicks or sabakis (that would've been awesome) or anything. And he has nothing that's particularly fast, so your opponent will block quite a bit. You have to play traditional defense with him... and my traditional defense sucks.... and you have to throw really well.

Which is where the problem lies.

If your opponent can yomi throw situations (which are most of the time since your attacks move at the rate of mollasses down a tree) and successfully DTE or ever TTE ,, and maybe , since the other throw directions do no damage, the advantage is definitely not Jeff's.

I have had some success with creating block stun with +, but i need lots of range or a decent frame advantage to pull it off. Jeff definitely fights better from range. Up close... it's not good. Also, i experimented with attacks that naturally dodge other attacks, like +, , and +. But they're so slow, the opponent can do a safe attack, i dodge successfully with one of the aforementioned moves, and the opp. still has time to block it. Yuck.

Off to work some more on him.

 

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Off to work some more on him.

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You sir, then, is on the right track to contradict your own statements about Jeffery. Good Luck and Godspeed.

/versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

"I don't even want to talk about Shun, who's my second favorite character"

Why not? You ranted long enough on the first one? you might as well get it out of your system. It's all entirely on you since you think Jeffery is weak!

 

First off, before the lames turn this into a flame fest, i should point out that in my first post i DID imply the real reason was that i'm just not good enough. I said it again in my second. The whole thing was sort of tongue-in-cheek. So there. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

With respect to Shun, he was next "least used" from Jeffry (and Brad and Goh, who have legit excuses). The problem with Shun is that he's pretty weak with no drinks. In order to get drinks, you have to gain advantage, then relinquish that advantage for drinks. His drink moves like + and + people know too well, and are to easy to break/counter. With Shun, your strategy almost has to be that you concede to lose one or two rounds in order to get powerful enough to win the rest.

Shun's unpopularity, however, i can handle because his movelist allows you to be a little more unpredictable (which is really the key to his game) than Jeff, whose predictability is lethal to him.

Is "unpopularity" even a word?

 

Aeon, none of us mean to flame or anything like that. It's just that if you understand the idea that how good a character is is dependent on the player, why did you make this thread at all? If you can grasp the concept of higher level of VF play as illustrated by your comments about predictability, guessing game, move property exploitation etc, why did you make a thread like this even after all the fuzz in the Akira thread and Zero-Chan's warning about topics to avoid? It would be much more meaningful to post your thoughts and contribute to other useful threads. Those statements you posted about Shun and Jeffery, why not explore those questions and ideas in the shun or jeffery tactics thread? Sorry if this post seems like a bucket of cold water poured your enthusiasm for VF, but it is not meant to be that way. You obviously have good ideas, but they are simply wasted in a useless topic like "Apparently Jeffry is just a weak-ass joke".

/versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

Well, first, i didn't read the Akira thread. Haven't started playing Evo Akira, so i don't yet care what was going on in there.

Second, i don't really know who Zero-Chan is (although i recognize the name from long ago when Sega Cities was still around) or what he said about topics.

Third, the topic is what it is: a rant. Nothing more, just a way to let off some steam after having had my ass handed to me by the quicker characters and to spark a little discussion about why tournament players rarely use him. It's gon' be okay, dude, i wasn't trying to hurt anyone's feelings or anything. I must admit, i had an alterior motive: what i really wanted was to begin a discussion on the theory behind the play and character design.

I was going to point out, for example, that a lot of Jeff's moves seem to encourage back dashing, crouch dashing, and so forth (much moreso than other characters) to begin the mtions, thereby shortening the considerable gap between his speed and the speed of other characters. I believe, however, that had i posted thst with a title like "VF theory" or something, it would have been summarily ignored.

You might not believe that's the reason i posted it, but it's true.

Side note:
Too many forum police around here lately, if you ask me (and, of course, you didn't). Everybody's so worried about what the f*** other people are posting, when the really useful strat-type threads are ignored or die prematurely.

 

<font color="#ff3366">Everybody's so worried about what the f*** other people are posting, when the really useful strat-type threads are ignored or die prematurely.</font>

That's because there haven't been any really useful strat-type threads lately. I can't remember the last useful strat-type thread on VFDC (scratch that...all of the recent Goh info has really been useful /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif). Which is probably why Zero-Chan, who is a female by the way, started that Common topics to avoid thread. After so many poll-type threads, character complaint/whining threads, and "What would you like to see in VFwhatever" threads, I think it was justified.

But that's just my opinion. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

We don't ignore posts that have a legitimate topic. Sometimes people don't contribute if really because
1) They don't use that character.
2) They are not sure if they know enough to make meaningful comments.
3) It's something that have been asked/discussed way long time before.

So don't assume that people are simply responding to pointless threads. The only reason it seems that way is because people argue, and most of the time people are too stubborn to see things from different perspectives to compromise in their ideals. If you made a thread such as "Jeffery advice" that is too general and nothing worth looking at. Which is why zero-chan has adviced against that. Something like "How do you take advantage of +5 situations as Jeffery" will definitely yield helpful comments from Jeffery players.

None of the three reasons you gave should have justified the topic of this thread as this section is called "Character and Technique Training", rants should have been made in junkies jungle. If your ulterior motive was to spur an useful discussion about Jeffery, making the topic to be something to be ignored by frequent forum users is not the way to do it. Most frequent users scans the whole forum and respond to threads they are interested in, but a topic like this will only receive responses of the same sort.

/versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

Ninjinsan: you're an okay person in my book, and i like you and all... but i really don't give a damn what you think about the topic title. I'm sorry, i just don't. I don't know any other way i can say that to you. I wrote it the way i wrote it, and that's the way it is. I don't feel the least bit bad about it. Again, i'm sorry.

By the way, in case you haven't picked up on it, i've been around here a long, looong time. Just because you just now noticed me doesn't make me a "n00b".

 

perhaps, ur topic could have started off on a better note, ie 'let's discuss how to fully explore's Jeff's strengths n weaknesses' (which is the sole purpose of this board)

Instead of the tune which u'chose n now dun give a damn'.

Think of it this way,

How would u feel if someone go up to u n say

' I hate Toyota, they have no innovations...if they were any good, they would design cars with 6 wheels! Instead of copying everyone else!'

Like many of us who saw this thread.

(BTW : board time does not = not *noob*. When it comes to certain characters, everyone is a *noob* In my case, I am a qualified blur noob when I use shun~)

 

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SummAh said:
' I hate Toyota, they have no innovations...if they were any good, they would design cars with 6 wheels! Instead of copying everyone else!'


[/ QUOTE ]

I would say, "You're damn tootin'!!"

In reality, i ain't fer sure people really read what i was trying to get at. The fanboys in you (and believe me, i'm a VF fanboy too) saw the topic title and reacted. As well you should. But if you really read what i wrote (e.g. the parts where i said i sucked) then you wouldn't have...

Ah, what's the use. You'll never see things from where i stand because the view's always different from the top of that horse. /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

looky here old timer~

We're not here to discuss whether u're good..or I'm good or he's good.

The purpose of this board is to encourage ppl to discuss....how to use a character more effectively, how to perform so n so set ups, flows , combos etc etc.

Not as a vehicle for someone to vent his/her frustration.

The issue I have with threads such as this very one u started is..

Someone who really might not know alot of VF will walk away...thinking 'jeff or pai or sarah is really weak' (incidentally, let me just reinstate my observation that only in the west...do u get this sort of opinion.)

So, do us all a fav, instead of suggesting that I am merely looking down on u (get off that 'woe is me horse' btw)

Let's do something positive by starting some healthy discussion.

Because, this my friend, is not a healthy one~

 

Well, I have to agree with Aeon that people tend to talk too much about talking. It was also clear to me that what Aeon was trying to do is to get people who disagree with him (which I'm sure there are many) to speak up and say why. That usually requires some discussion of strategy and tactics.

So...who disagrees and why?

Moi, I can understand Aeon's struggles...Jeffry IS harder to win with in Quest Mode than Wolf or Kage (don't know about anyone else). He's not someone you can easily poke safely with, so you're forced to play the big risk big reward game.

Aeon, if you're more successful with Jacky and Kage, maybe you're simply not that kind of a player.

 

I am now learning how to use Jeff with the PS2.

To be honest, Jeff is a character to "seek chance" "only one chance can get u down" character.

He also make the opp "fear" if u play it good.

I, with my favourite character Aoi, in Hong Kong, fighting with the top-Jeff player.

I place very speedy punches and elbow strains with sweeps etc to " create chance for throwing , feaking "...
he just Guard all my attack, regardless my feak...and...here it comes his revenge back....

at the time I do the Double or even Trible throw escape...Bow---he place a well counter hit of big knee to my face.

This is the Jeff game.

Speed is not the major factor but...

A chance...he is waiting to take up nearly 2/3 of your life......

Hugo /versus/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

Hey Aeon, one way to see how the top Japanese players are using Jeffry to beat those speedy and otherwise-stronger characters, is to watch them play in videos.

Check out hiroshima2.wmv in CreeD's Movie of the Week thread (Media board), to see a very aggressive Jeffry played by Kyasao himself!! Jeffry is Kyasao's 2nd character, so if you go hunting you might be able to find more vids of him using the big fisherman. There's also a couple clips featuring Ikyuu Jeffry there... plus there's lotsa new Jeff clips in the ACT thread!

Of course, I know this doesn't help you against the CPU in Quest mode... but it gives you some comfort in seeing how tactics are used to beat other strong human opponents.