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Arcadia 124 VF5FS System notes

Discussion in 'Arcade' started by noodalls, Aug 7, 2010.

  1. noodalls

    noodalls Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter

    Virtua Fighter 5 FS System Changes
    Source - Arcadia Issue 124
    Author - Kurita
    Translation - noodalls​

    Changes to the Movement System
    The risk and return for DM have both increased. And, because of the changes in the throw system mentioned later, the previous staple of fighting ETE is now much less important.

    The risk of a failed evade is now much greater
    The big change to the evade system in VF5FS is that if during a failed evade you're hit by a circular move, it will be considered as a counter hit. The precise conditions are that the direction you evaded in and the move's circular direction must be the same. Because of that, if you delay and then punish an opponent's failed evade with a move, it will be counter as a normal hit; only circular moves in the same direction as the opponent's evade direction will counter as counter hit. You could say that the need to watch your opponent's feet has become even more important. If you think about it the opposite way, moves such as Brad's half circular [6_][K] have received a boost.

    On the other hand, there aren't any specific changes to OM, so you can use it in the same way as you did in the last VF.

    For moves that have no guaranteed punishment, after guarding if you read their evade ...
    ... you can hit their failed evade with a counter hit. 1.5x the damage!

    The benefit for a successful evade is now much greater
    In the same way that the risk of a failed evade is increased, the benefit for a successful evade is also increased. If you evade an opponent's move, you can attack them from their side. You can either go for side-only combos, or use the additional advantage on hit to further push the offensive. Also, the recovery on guard is reduced, so even when you have nothing guaranteed, you can go for a big move with relative impunity. The risk of a evade itself is greater, and the ETE being weakened are both minuses, but the strengthening of the successful evade means the value of going for it is higher.

    Also, in the previous versions Evade [P][+][K] was very underused, and has been removed. You can now do your normal [P][+][K] moves from evade.

    After evading an opponent's attack successfully, even if you don't completely get to their side...
    ... the next move that you use will be considered side turned. Think of it like the condition after OM.

    Altering the Risk on Back Dashes
    In the current iteration, backdashes are faster, and more effective at evading the opponent's attacks. On the flipside, all moves that hit during backdash will be considered counter hit. Furthermore, if the move is a middle kick, it will give a *bumdown stagger, allowing even fairly slow moves to be unavoidable and putting the opponent in quite a pinch. This is considered a normal counter hit, and so gives 1.5X the damage.

    Also, a fine point, but you can no longer cancel your backdash with a crouch dash or back crouch dash. This make it a bit harder to get the right range on your opponents wake up attacks.

    If you hit your opponent's backdash with a middle kick they are staggered, and even quite slow moves cannot be escaped.

    Jumping and Jump Attacks
    Other than Taka, all characters and jump attacks have been refreshed. The jumping speed is faster, and something that can be used in real battles. Also, the ability to be thrown while jumping disappears in an instant, so this is a useful option against an opponent's throw. Also, if you are hit by an attack the damage is considered to be that of an air hit, so it is quite reduced.

    ! What is fuzzy guard? This is a technique to use against your opponent's mixup, so that you are able to duck a 10 frame throw, but also guard their 14 frame mid. To get from standing to crouching takes 7 frames with a crouching guard, or 5 frames with a crouch dash, so from a -3 or -5 disadvantage respectively you are able to avoid your opponent's throw. When you release the joystick you will be able to guard their slightly slower mids as well.

    Changes to the Throw System
    The biggest change in the FS system is the 1/3 throw break system. It looks like it will favour a yomi style of play, but what impact will it have on matches?

    Throw commands limited to three inputs and only one throw escape works
    Until now, characters had a variety of throw directions, but now every character shares just [4], [6] and neutral throws. The damage they do still varies, but this is all that separates them. Throws that used to be [3] or [1] are now either [6] or [4] or have been removed. Along with this, low throws that used to have [P][+][K][+][G] in the command are now done with [3], [2] or [1][P][+][G].

    Along with reducing the number of directions for throws, now you can only input one direction for throw breaks. Because the chance of breaking a throw is now 1/3, you would think that the damage from throwing would be higher. Along with this making throw escapes easier to understand, most of the catch throws have become similar, with either a [4], [6] or neutral [P][+][G] to escape them. For examples, Vanessa's takedowns, Taka's morosashi, Wolf's [4][K][+][G] hit throw and his [P][+][K][+][G] RAW throw all follow this rule.

    Even when you have been tackled, if you continue to use the same commands as for normal throw escapes you will be ok.

    The throw execution is faster
    Throw execution has improved from 12 frames to 10 frames. Because of this, it is now faster than the fastest standing [P], and there are situations where only throws are guaranteed (excluding Vanessa's Cut upper). However, throws such as [4][4][P][+][G] and [6][6][P][+][G] with a normal input will still take an extra frame, and not be guaranteed at -10.

    Also, at +4 your throw cannot be ducked. Because of this, after a [2][P] or standing [P] hit, a throw immediately is a good option. However, because the functionality of crouch dashes has been improved a little, you can have your throws avoided with a crouch dash at +5. Which is to say, that if you have +6, a throw mid mixup is a perfect mixup.

    Clash and 0 frame throws are gone
    New in VF5, the clash between a throw and an attack is gone. As was mentioned previously, the return from throws is increased, so the risk for using them is similarly increased. Like in VF4, using a big move to abare through throws is a useful strategy, go for it when you feel the time is right. Because of this, notes about moves that crouch or become airborne to not clash are no longer relevant.

    Because 0 frame throws have been removed, all throws takes 10 frames. This means it is easier to deal with dash into throw, but harder to punish the opponent's throw or mid-high strings.

    If your opponent throws from a very large advantage, and so long as it is not guaranteed ...
    ... then if you throw out a big move it will definitely beat out the throw.

    Catch Throws getting Counter Hit
    Until now, if catch-throws got stuffed by a move it would be considered a normal hit, but in VF5FS it is now a counter hit. Further, if you connect with a move during the recovery of a catch-throw it will be considered a recovery counter hit, so for someone like Taka who suffers a lot with recovery counters, this is a painful change.

    For Taka, if you crouch his Morosashi you can get special combos on hit with a minor counter hit during his recovery.

    ! What is simplified throw escape? By holding [4][P][+][G], [6][P][+][G] or [P][+][G] you can maintain your guard status while escaping throws. The time to use this is when you press [G][P]. You can use this in recovery, where according to the system, even though [P][+][G] are pressed together, you will be able to maintain your guarding pose.

    Other System Changes
    Don't overlook the fine changes!

    No more stagger from elbows and middle kicks
    In this version if you hit a crouching opponent with [6][P] or [3][K] they will not stagger, but will have a standard hit stun in its place. This gives more advantage than a normal hit, and basically gives +6 for elbows and +8 for middle kicks. Also, there is no more guard-half (which was half the damage for crouch guarding one of those hits), it gives the same damage as a normal hit.

    For the attacking side, this is a more reliable advantage, where they don't have to worry about timing their throw with the opponent's struggle from stagger. For the opponent being hit, there is no need to input commands to struggle, so they can move straight on to defensive techniques (and moves with 2 or more inputs are now easier). You need to be aware of how this affects both sides.

    This is what it looks like when you hit your crouching opponent. It will take a little time to get used to, but is something to be aware of.

    Damage modifier changes
    The first thing to note is that the starting health has changed from 201 to 221 points.

    The next point is that on large counter hits, whereas previously medium counter hits did 1.5x the damage and large counter hits did 1.6x the damage, now large counter hits do 1.75x the damage (and small and medium counter hits are the same at 1.5x). Given that clashes no longer exist, and going for a big move to abare through a throw is now a cornerstone of FS, the risk of playing this way has also increased.

    Air combo modifiers have also changed. Basically the air modifier has gone from 0.8 to 0.7. Also the modifier for number of hits which used to be at three is now at five. This has been softened from 0.8 to 0.9. Also, moves that slam the opponent down, or moves that slam them while they are in the air are no longer modified, except for the standard 0.7 for air hits. Other than that, modifiers for walls, wallsits etc. are the same.

    Characters like Akira and Taka who have big damage single hits are able to get big returns on counter hit.

    Changes to getting to the opponent's side
    In this iteration, moves done immediately after a successful evade are considered to be sideturned, so the opportunities to get to the opponent's side are increased. This is likely to have a big impact on matches.

    The biggest other changes is that in order to get a side crumple from a middle kick, you now need to hit it on major counter hit, not just minor counter hit. This means its value after dodging a big move is reduced.

    One more thing, the bonuses for guard and hit on side turned have changed. In the previous game a big move from the side would give a bonus +5 frames, but in this version it is now +6. What makes this a big change is that, after some normal hits you will be able to start a combo. Most big moves are -15 on guard, so from sideturned this becomes -9, so nothing is guaranteed. This gives real incentive to pressure with big moves from sideturned situations.

    If you have a character with a fast juggle starter, it is probably the best option after a successful evade. You need to get a handle on VF5FS' sideturned game quickly.

    Changes to walls
    There has been a change to stages which have destructible walls. In this game, they will only be destroyed after the KO (or if they KO the opponent). Because they cannot be destroyed during the round, there are less unpredictable ring outs. It makes sense that you would only destroy walls that are behind your opponent's starting position, and not go for a wall break if it will be behind your back at the start of the next round.

    There is also a change to the stun that occurs when a 20 or less damage move hits the opponent into the wall. In the previous version, the period of time where the opponent was invulnerable to throws was long, and you couldn't throw an opponent who ducked, but in this version the time is shortened, and you can throw an opponent just before they go into the crouching status. The timing isn't that difficult, and with some practice you should be able to get used to it. This is a big change for characters without a guard break attack.

    The timing for a throw on the opponent so they can't duck it is just as their animation is about to finish.

    ! Sideturned notes There is no change to the 3 frames in sideturned state where you are unable to guard or evade. Elbows or middle kicks from sideturned will not stagger. In this instance, the frame advantages will stack, so elbow will give +9 and middle kick will give +11. After an elbow [P] is unguardable, and after a middle kick 14 frame moves are unguardable, making this very strong.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2016
    Santanero likes this.
  2. Jide

    Jide The Super Shinobi Silver Supporter

    Thanks for the write up Noodalls. Appreciated as always dude!
  3. Dennis0201

    Dennis0201 Well-Known Member

    FS has arrived!!

    Btw, this article doesn't mention Taka has slower crouching, but it points out new fuzzy has different situation on -5, and maybe that's why Taka players thought he is slower in FS.
  4. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    As always, thanks for the translation noodalls! I've edited the post with formatting and cmd graphics to help with the readability.

    Interesting that they've removed the crouch stagger, and it explains why I always felt like something was missing when watching FS videos -- mid hits against crouchers just didn't "look" the right, but this explains everything!

    Note to those unfamiliar with noodalls' translations: the "Captions" are text that accompany a screenshot within the article. If I can get my hands on some scans, I'll embed them in the post.
  5. Libertine

    Libertine Well-Known Member Content Manager Brad Silver Supporter Content Coordinator

    Thank you for this translation noodalls. This gives context to the frame data I've read in the videos. Pressure from a side-turned situation in Final Showdown seems more intimidating and more fun.
  6. SDS_Overfiend1

    SDS_Overfiend1 Well-Known Member

    Myke im suprised you did'nt pick up on the new animation for this. It has a cool stun look when the players actually look dazed.
  7. Libertine

    Libertine Well-Known Member Content Manager Brad Silver Supporter Content Coordinator

    Does the new property of circular moves producing a CH apply to full-circulars too? Obviously, they cover both directions. But what if the opponent evades in the starting direction? For example, if the opponent evades towards Jacky's stomach when he uses [4][6][K][+][G]?
  8. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    Just a quick reply to mention that I've added screenshots to the original post.
  9. Shidosha

    Shidosha Well-Known Member

    Ur Not Shidosha
    Great read!
    I know a certain someone who is gonna be PISSED to find out how rewarding Abare is :LOL:

    thanks for the post noodalls & myke
  10. Plague

    Plague Well-Known Member

    And to think that I'm trying to stop my autopilot evade KNEE... Gotta get this game so I can do it again!
  11. Reno

    Reno Well-Known Member

    good stuff!
  12. Fulan

    Fulan Well-Known Member

    thanks noodals
  13. Emerald_Wolf

    Emerald_Wolf Well-Known Member

  14. Aidan

    Aidan Well-Known Member

    xX SETTRA Xx
    Nice informations, thx for the translation.
  15. KrsJin

    KrsJin Well-Known Member

    Thanks a ton for the translation Noodalls and the formating + pics Myke!
  16. FaisonI

    FaisonI Well-Known Member

    <span style="font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'">This is GREAT!!! Thanks for all of your hard work noodalls.</span>
  17. Shoju

    Shoju Well-Known Member

    Thanks a lot for the translation Noodalls and Myke for the pics.

    The damage modifier sounded interesting because it means there's greater risk when trying to abare with a big combo starter if you think their gonna throw you. If you guessed wrong with that you could be taking 25% more damage than you would have with a small move. When they took out clash I thought this ought to be the case so it's good to see that change has been made.

    Have to admit though I didn't even realize there was +10% modifier for CH during big moves in VF5. What was it in VF4-VF4FT considering there was no clash there either?
  18. noodalls

    noodalls Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter

    Thanks everyone.

    Reno, I read through your systems post, and realise that a lot of this is the same as what's there. I tried to just post this as a reply, but I believe the thread is locked. In any event, between these two threads I think we have most of what is known about the system at this time covered.
  19. noodalls

    noodalls Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter

    Also, it mentions that next month's arcadia will contain a small booklet about VF5FS. I would assume this will just be a movelist, but sometimes there is a bit of extra system information contained. We shall see.
  20. Dennis0201

    Dennis0201 Well-Known Member

    "If your opponent throws from a very large advantage, and so long as it is not guaranteed ...
    ... then if you throw out a big move it will definitely beat out the throw."

    I don't understand why here emphasis "very large advantage"? Is it the same if you use a big move to beat opponent's throw even he is in tiny advantage? Do I miss something??

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