Are there any characters you think are too good in vf4 or vf evo?

Actually, sgpm isn't guaranteed against anyone, even Jacky/Aoi. If you go into free training mode and set the cpu to the fastest stagger recovery setting, it gets blocked every time. Only dblpm hits consistently. It might be more difficult for them to block the sgpm, but I'm 99% sure it's not guaranteed.

 

Thank you for the explanation. now perhaps someone can explain to the rest of us on how to struggle.

 

Seriously? The way I do it is: Circle the joystick quickly, while holding and alternating between and . Works for me.

 

This may be obvious but you need to struggle twice during the ST animation(two red wiggling joysticks). Anticipate when the first red wiggling joystick appears...struggle for split second...anticipate the second red joystick...struggle and guard the sgpm. I move the stick back and forth rather then in a circle and alternate between hitting P,K,G.

 

That book also says that for Pai, Lau, Goh, Sarah and others struggling out is done "easily" (kaifuku yasui). Since Wolf and Jeffry could do it since version C, I think they can do it as well with some ease (as andy confirms when we play).


Spotlite, that's exactly my point!!

It's really easy to do it for certain characters. I play Goh and Jeffry, and for those characters I can escape the spalm after ST all the time (Goh easier than Jeffry). Now it's next to impossible to do it for Kage and to a lesser degree Wolf (1 out of 10 times maybe)...now are you saying I struggle differently for those four characters?

No, it's character specific. Some characters can struggle out of it easily, but for most others it's bloody hard. Who does Andy play? Pai right? Who does Mike play? Etc.

Let me put it this way: at the Korean tournament, only ONE person who was not one of the above characters was able to escape the spalm from ST...and that is Akira Kid. Even then, he could only struggle out of it 3/5 times against Homestay and Ohsu. In many of the Japanese clips I've seen, I still see the ST > spalm a lot.

What I don't really understand from all this is how it's struggleable for certain characters and not against certain others. Is it a balancing issue? I don't think so, because Goh is great against Akira and Lau certainly doesn't need help. At the end of the day I can only conclude it to be a bug or an oversight on AM2's part.


As far as my Kage is concerned, Akira has a GREAT throwing game with three very good directional throws.

 

Nah...Don't worry about it. At least you bothered to check(but got it wrong), we all know who the real scrubs are anyway... /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[ QUOTE ]
ice-9 said:

As far as my Kage is concerned, Akira has a GREAT throwing game with three very good directional throws.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's like an Akira player saying that as far as he's concerned Akira only has two good throwing directions because he won't practice and can't do ST~Sgpm~Dbpm...
If it's not guaranteed on anyone then it's possible to LEARN how to struggle it with practice...and then it won't be a threat anymore.

 

*rolls eyes*

You totally missed the point, completely.

 

I knew it wasn't my hands!

In challenge mode..I passed the struggle test against Akira with Kage, Akira, and Wolf.

But using Jacky against Akira's ST...I couldn't do it at all.

 

Re: HATERATION

Sanjuro:

[ QUOTE ]

I don't know. It's my impression that Lei's throw game is the weakest, or if not the weakest certainly weaker than Shun's.


[/ QUOTE ]

they've got the same amount of directions, but Shun can't use one until 3DPs (and then 3 are gone when you do use it). The 270 is only useful after 10 drinks, so not useful at all for those that don't rely on DPs (I'm kind of in the middle on that issue). Shun's + can do mediocre damage w/ no DPs, but nothing to write home about. And nothing compared to Lei's - I still place Lei Fei a notch above in the throwing department, if for no other reason than the directions, and that's the bitch at hand. The BT, DS, an HS throws I think you find will have less than desireable results when trying to pull them off.

Bare Knuckle:
[ QUOTE ]

RE: Sobering Shun
i think alot of characters are able to do this in EVO ver.B, akira is by no means alone on this.


[/ QUOTE ]

True, but I was mentioned how easy it is for Akira. is a very quick (and strong move). When it hits, another is guaranteed. Sarah is the only one I can think of that has it any "easier", and to a lesser extent Vanessa is one to be feared.

DRE
I think the only people w/ useful throws next to a wall are Akira, Jacky, and Lau. (Anyone else? I'm not talkin about wall throws here though). Lion () definitely has the animations that could support this, but is left out of the fun. /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Sound Wave:
[ QUOTE ]

Even though Shun and Lei have weak throwing games, they still can mix them up and thats all that matters.


[/ QUOTE ]

But there's a limit to how much you can mix them up (which is lower than any other character) and that's the point. At least w/ Lei Fei it's offset w/ the ability to do uber-damage, where Shun doesn't have that - he has speed on his side. High damage doesn't really get good until 6 DPs.

Jerky
[ QUOTE ]

733t then you should be capitalizing against Jacky's weaknesses, period. Thanks for listening.


[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? did you say soemthing? Sorry - wasn't listening.


Sanjuro Again:
[ QUOTE ]

But like I said before, back to the wall (or ring edge) Shun's + being escaped screws him as he is rung out


[/ QUOTE ]

Don't forget + - that's a ring out as well. One good thing, besides the normal +, w/ a wall, his other throws are safe to be escaped. IE - you won't get screwed out of half the bar b/c you chose the wrong thing after being escaped.

 

Re: HATERATION

*shrugs*

 

Re: HATERATION

Wouldn't it make a little sense that it depends on the weight of the character? I.E. pai is small and therefore has to struggle alot because of the force that the throw has, I have had no problems struggling ST throw with jacky. At this point I think it is up to weight, we are all going on here say as far as what character struggles easiest and hardest and who struggles correctly. Everyone struggles and plays differently. =) IMO it depends on the weight of the character that's the only systematic way i can think it would be. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

Re: HATERATION

[ QUOTE ]
I still place Lei Fei a notch above in the throwing department, if for no other reason than the directions, and that's the bitch at hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough. Shun's got some problems before he gets sauced. I feel like 10 is his magic drink number...I'm usually not comfortable as him or uncomfortable VS him until that number pops up. And yeah, the HS/BT/DS throws are freeze throws...You've either done some good "conditioning" and/or are in pretty good control of things when you get them.

And since it popped up. Akira's is quick & strong & guarantees another (or if Shun is BT'd, also sobering) but it also hits high, which means something unless Shun is floating or just got KO'd standing.

 

Re: HATERATION

The after the KO sucks. I've been standing there, KO'ed, still standing, and then two of those punches take off for DPs. Something just seems unfair about that, especially since Shun can't drink on a time-out match that he wins, and also since there are unwritten rules about attacking after KOing someone.

 

Re: HATERATION

In most cases. If you win the round with either + or +, you'll be luck to get 1 drink.

The time-out thing is the one that pisses me off the most. I could see if you lost via time out, but not when you win.
Also, if you both ring out, but the point goes to you, you can't drink them either. /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I only drink to pressure the other player to get off their ass.

 

Re: HATERATION

Ok i was wrong, it is impossible to struggle with jacky after ST throw, CPU's timing was slow. =) Sega had to be wierd and make it character specific struggling after ST throw. Why?

 

Re: HATERATION

It is the will of God, I can do it (but I play Leifei). Tryed it with Jacky and could do it but maybe it's technique, hard tellin.

 

Re: HATERATION

You think that's bs, what about Vanessa's ability to avoid Shun's Chowan after +?
With the exception of Aoi's reversal (which is a special case) Vanessa is the only charcter that can succesfully guard this.