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Article: Dealing with everyday BS.

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by CreeD, Jul 23, 2003.

  1. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    I thought I'd try writing some articles for VFDC, possibly on a regular basis. There's a lot of stuff in VF that doesn't get discussed because people feel it's too obvious, or because they can't find it without using a very specific search phrase. I hope this useful to someone.
    If anyone has any comments or questions, PM me here on VFDC (no email). I'll take the good stuff and post in this thread. My goal is to have all the articles in one easy to find location... one that has absolutely no clutter and is 100 percent useful info. To start I'll post three characters, Akira-Kage-Lau.
    -------------

    Article 1: Dealing with everyday BS.
    A lot of VF at lower levels is abusing simple, stupid things that just don't fly at higher levels... this is called getting away with murder. I do it to others (though I try to break the habit), and what's worse is I allow others to do it to me, which costs me games I have no reason to lose.
    What I hope to do is list all of the really common tricks that get abused vs. newbies and also answer some of the most common questions about stuff like the commands needed to escape multithrows and mounts.
    The goal is to get you to a point where you never eat predictable non-guaranteed damage.

    <font color="red">VS AKIRA</font>

    ----Escaping setup throws----

    [*]Against akira's stumbling trip, there is a right way and a wrong way to struggle. Akira has a few followups. One of them is safe and guaranteed, but low damage. The other is less guaranteed, but more damaging.

    -Guaranteed: double palm. If your opponent does the double palm after every stumbling trip, just resign yourself to the fact that you couldn't struggle out of it, no matter how hard you tried. You still want to try, because struggling gets you out of the not-guaranteed sgpm, dbpm combo. If you struggled and ate the double palm, it was only a 40 point throw anyway. That's about as weak as VF throws get.

    -Not guaranteed: Single Palm, Double Palm. This combo is done by using the built in single palm followup (QCF+P) which cannot be followed up with the canned dashing elbow combo (like the usual FC,f+P move can). The way to escape this combo is to struggle and guard the single palm. To do that, hold guard and whirl the stick HARD in the quickest full circles you can. Whipping it all the way around about 1-1/2 times will do the job, and you should also tap the P and K buttons rapidly as you hold guard. If successful, you will guard the single palm (at which point it's pretty much a neutral situation, akira recovers quickly and is a few steps away).

    -Stuff to keep in mind: First of all, the difficulty of struggling this combo varies from character to character. Aoi and Jacky have a hell of a time getting out of it. Goh, Sarah, Pai, and Lau can pull it off the best. Second, you can struggle by doing just the joystick motion. My experience is that good strugglers can do it without button presses. Maybe they do it that way because that distracts you from the whirling the stick extremely fast. Whirling hard is important because you hit all the directions. Trying to do small, tight whirls with the stick will result in you skipping direction inputs, and those are what help you recover faster. Last but not least... the single palm, double palm combo is kinda hard, and akira players fuck it up all the time. If you get hit by the single palm, don't lose hope. Dodge, just in case they did the double palm a little late...and be ready with a good move to ream akira with as he stands there for half an hour retracting his palms. Also remember that if akira single palms you into the wall after this throw, you CAN struggle and guard any big move he might try. Don't assume you're a goner. The normal single palm (FC, f+P) causes a slightly heavier wall stun and is hard to get out of... but this canned single palm isn't exactly the same.

    [*]Against Akira's reverse bodycheck, there are two followups to be aware of. Both are guaranteed for akira. The first is the sidekick. It's easy, reliable, and it sets up a backstagger if you're dumb enough to crouch immediately after the throw. So don't crouch, for god's sake. Take your sidekick like a man.

    -If akira does the double palm followup, you get knocked down. There's nothing much to do here except take your damage and get back up. Remember NOT to quick rise from this position (face down, feet towards) or else you will be presenting your back to the opponent. They can get a backstagger and maybe a back throw. Tech rolling is OK. Also keep in mind that the akira might get sneaky and try to use the reverse bodycheck to set up a larger move. Struggle and guard even though it probably won't accomplish anything.

    [*]Against akira's surprise exchange, you simply need to guard. You cannot shorten your recovery time, and akira no longer has guaranteed damage after this. If the akira is smart, he will use the opportunity to set up an interrupt or a better throw. He will also use the surprise exchange more when his back is to the edge of the ring or near a wall. Keep this in mind when doing throw escapes. A pretty safe way to turn around is with [2]+[G]. It ducks throws and you can't possibly eat a float combo from that position. The strongest thing akira can do to you is use a stun palm of doom. You can practice a fuzzy guard technique that will allow you to stand up and guard this in time. You're basically disadvantaged and have to guess between mid attack or throw. Do not try to attack or merely duck, and do not dodge. Spod may beat all three of these options for high damage.

    [*]Against akira's PIT (pull in throw) you have a bunch of choices, and life can suck for you if you don't know how to get out of it.
    Akira can do:
    PIT, dodge up, canned backcheck --> horrible SDE combo.
    PIT, dodge down, canned backcheck --> horrible SDE combo.

    The first thing you should learn is to recognize on reflex when akira has started the pull in throw (it has a super slow animation) and immediately you should enter both [8]+[G] and [2]+[G]. This will allow you to escape both the dodge up backcheck or the dodge down backcheck. Doing this is essential. Eating that ridiculous (and guaranteed) super dashing elbow combo really hurts, so you have to stop akira before he gets his first hit. Remember that akira has sucky recovery if you manage to block that backcheck. Punish him accordingly, I think it's something like -12 frames when blocked.

    -At this point, the akira player may spot that you're consistently getting out of his favorite PIT followup and he'll switch up to something else.
    Akira can do:
    PIT --> headbutt --> m-dbpm or
    PIT --> headbutt --> P,K

    You can escape this by using [6]+[G] to block the headbutt. Once again you have a big advantage if you guard here. You can at least throw him. If you fail to guard the headbutt, there's nothing you can do about the followups. Is it possible to guard against the headbutt, the dodge up backcheck, and the dodge down backcheck?
    Absolutely. Quickly enter [6]+[G], [8]+[G], [2]+[G]. You'll be able to block all three. An easier trick is to press [6]+[G], then use reflexes to see where akira goes next (and then block accordingly). Will akira be stumped and unable to hurt you with this throw? Hell no. Akira has two good options to defeat someone with the reflexes needed to triple escape.
    1. He can dodge up or down without the backcheck, then use a guard break combo.
    2. He can use no followups at all, then throw you or double palm you just after you're pulled in close.

    If you see these coming, you can possibly hit him out of the guard break with d+P (assuming he does a high guard break) or you can just take the hit and attack back. It's a tiny bit of damage, nearly nothing. If the akira tries PIT into throw and you see it coming, smack him with something huge.

    ----Other stuff----

    [*]Against akira's b,f+P+G shoulder ram throw, you can QR or TR to reduce damage. Be especially careful of it if you're near a wall, akira generally gets a free combo if he throws you into the wall with this. After Akira's headbutt throw, you can QR or TR but it doesn't reduce damage anymore, even if you do it perfectly. Remember your throw escapes if the opponent proves fond of doing the weird shin'iha motion.

    [*]Against throw attempts in general, you want to double throw escape [3] and [6] directions. The stumble throw has a hard followup that's escapeable and the surprise exchange is nerfed to the point of being almost no threat. Therefore you must watch out for the throws listed above. You especially shouldn't let akira get a b,f+P+G wall combo or a df+P+G wall throw. Since f,b+P+G is a catch throw, it can't be escaped the usual way. You must escape/guard akira's followups to it.

    [*]Guard break combos are weird. The high guard break into standing palm is guaranteed, so if you eat the guard break, you're eating the combo. Against half the characters akira can also do a [6][6]+[K] float combo. It's flaky because some characters can block it in some stances, and some can't, and some can block in either stance, and some can't block at all. Almost no akira uses this because it's unreliable, don't let anyone get away with it against you. If you guard it, akira is -15 and very punishable.

    [*]Akira's [6][6]+[K][K] is one of the worst recovering moves in the game. When you block it, take your free combo with whatever your biggest, slowest combo starter is. Don't settle for blocking it and trying to throw him.

    [*]Akira's [4][6][6]+[P]+[K] is almost as risky as the DJK, and also gives you a free combo when blocked. No akira should be abusing this move against you. Top akira players hardly ever use it, despite the high damage potential.

    [*]It's a minor thing, but after a spod, you can now tech roll and avoid the otherwise guaranteed ground punch. In earlier versions you just ate it.


    <font color="red">VS KAGE</font>

    ----Escaping setup throws----

    [*]After you get TFTed and are floating in the air, your options are limited... unless you want to get cheeky and mess with your opponent's controls or mash on the pause button. There's a few popular combos that are TR-able and you should keep these in mind. If kage does the knee, jab, jab, cartwheel combo... you can't tech roll and the kage player will get a guaranteed df+K ground kick. Some kage players are greedy and will try a low kick after the cartwheel. You can tech roll after the low kick (it's not hard if you see it coming)... or you can simply take the low kick and tap d+G repeatedly to roll out of the way of kage's ground attack. If the kage player follows the cartwheel with a dragon punch, you should immediately tech roll or QR because you can recover a little before Kage recovers from it. You have frame advantage at the very least, and possibly a guaranteed hit such as akira's double palm.

    Finally, remember to TR against screwups. If the opponent tries a knee and it's late, you can TR almost any big hit at the end of the TFT combo... i.e. you can get out of the cartwheel. Some combos are close but simply not guaranteed. You cannot get knee --> P --> P --> cartwheel against jeffry (it's barely possible on wolf). You cannot get the easy knee --> elbow --> kickflip combo against anyone except vanessa and lion. If the opponent whiffs a d+P+K or tries his knee and blows it, remember to tech roll because TFT damage is 40 pts if you simply hit the floor. TR/QR reduces that to 0 damage :p

    [*]After f+P+G you have a 50/50 guessing game.
    Option 1. Stand and hold the stick towards kage. You will take kage's dragon punch into kick combo. Ouch. The good news is that you turn towards kage and will be able to tech roll or quick rise after the dragon punch-kick combo.
    You may also eat kage's modified rising knee. If you're a lightweight, Kage can get one more hit after this... a dinky low punch.
    Option 2. Crouch. This prevents kage from adding the kick to his dragon punch, but the dragon punch hit is still absolutely guaranteed. It may also prevent him from adding the low punch after a (guaranteed) rising knee. The catch is that by crouching, you may leave yourself open to an elbow or sidekick backstagger. This can lead to a damaging back hit combo such as cartwheel --> d+P+K,K. I'd recommend crouching until the kage player proves he's willing to mix in elbows and sidekicks. Then you can turn and guard.
    Be aware of Kage's evil trick... f+P+G --> d+P --> TFT .. or just f+P+G --> TFT. It's probably best to tap d+G so that you turn and block, thereby weakening his DP by crouching (if he DPed) and avoiding a throw if he got cute. If Kage does the f+P+G on you from the side PPb+P is guaranteed. So is a dragon punch-kick combo. I think if he does it from behind you are merely disadvantaged.
    [*]After the P+K clap, kage goes into stance and can do an immediate P+G throw, which is identical to his uf+P+G three-slaps-throw. If you try to recover from the clap and do a standing attack, his throw will probably override your attack (since it's a catch throw). If you do any crouching or low attack, you will win. So mash on [2]+[P] to get out of trouble. The same principle applies if kage gets a generic elbow stagger and tries the stance throw. On interrupt, a clap into kage's stance P,K is guaranteed.

    ----Dealing with Stance Options----

    [*]Kage's stance is evil because of two key attacks. K+G will hop over low punches cleanly and tracks like an unholy whore. Therefore it's the main option you want to use to crush low punchers or people who dodge when they see your stance. P+K will sabaki almost any punch attack and therefore is the option to use to defeat jabs, elbows, etc. Both moves crumple, which leads to a nasty combo like K+G, P, P. You also end up face down and head towards after the crumple combo. If you choose to tech roll here, you will give kage a guaranteed backstagger opportunity. You should QR instead.

    -The trick to dealing with these attacks is to use some sort of fast kick (or non-punch) attack, ideally a mid one. A knee is effective. Do not use the sidekick. If kage predicts it, he can reverse it for a huge (half your life) combo. Other stance options are not quite as scary.. the stance jabs only lead to a stance P,K at best. The knee creates a nice float, but is slow and will lose to your own knee/kick. The stance throw obviously loses to anything.
    One simple option to ensure you avoid stance problems is to just run away. A backdash will make Kage's key kick moves whiff, and you can punish him during the recovery.

    [*]Kage has two reversals from the stance. The first is an automatic high punch reversal where he crawls between you legs. PPb+P is guaranteed here. So is the dragon punch-kick combo.
    The second is a midkick reversal. If you eat this you WILL lose half your life to an easy followup (stance K+G --> crumple combo for example, or normal [9]+[K]+[G] combos, or [6]+[K]+[G] combos). You cannot struggle here.

    ----Other Stuff----

    [*]You should not take ground attacks from most of kage's throws. The TFT sometimes ends in an attack that give kage a free heel swat. Aside from that, the only throw that guarantees a ground attack is [3]+[P][G] and a wall throw. Even then, I swear I've seen it escaped after [3]+[P][G] once or twice in movies. The hop'n'slam doesn't guarantee one, nor does his basic P+G, nor does b,f+P+G. The same is true after a back throw. Don't be lazy getting up.

    [*]When escaping throws using DTE techniques, you should escape in the back direction always... what you choose for a secondary depends on the opponent. Kage has four good throw directions, and you will need to escape either the 50+ point [3] direction, the 60 pt [2] direction, or the 40-50 pt [6] direction.

    <font color="red">VS LAU</font>

    ----Escaping Setup Throws----

    [*]After lau's stumbling trip, you are crouched and staggering. You can struggle to reduce the stagger time, which also gets you standing up faster.
    In previous versions of VF4, the stumble was so severe, a good player could always connect with a [4][6]+[P] combo after the stumble throw. In Evo B, It's possible to struggle and guard the standing palm, even if it's done immediately. Use the same method you'd use to escape akira's stumble throw combos - hold guard, whirl the stick in large, fast circles... and mash P and K. Unfortunately, it's damned hard to struggle out of the palm followup. You may want to simply play the 50/50 guessing game that people used to avoid damage in VF4 version C and below:

    1. Don't struggle - if you don't struggle, you stay low to the ground for a little while, and Lau's [4][6]+[P] will whiff over your head. Then you can struggle and stand up while lau's busy recovering from the whiffed palm.

    2. If lau predicts you will do this, he can nail you with a very painful [4][4]+[P] or [3]+[P][K] combo. If you're one step ahead of Lau, you can predict his attempt to use a big attack and struggle and guard it. In the case of guarding the [3]+[P][K] you get enough initiative on lau for a guaranteed heavy-P class attack (13 frames).

    ----Other Stuff-----

    [*]No lau throw guarantees a stomp except the basic [P]+[G] and [4][6]+[P][G] and a wall throw. Roll towards lau's front leg to avoid the frequently-abused stomp after his [3][3] throw (the leaping flip'n'slam). You shouldn't be eating stomps after [6]+[P][G] either (roll backwards). You can tech roll or quick rise after his two new throws... FC,[6]+[P][G] and [4][3]+[P][G]. If you fail to, a stomp is guaranteed. Be careful of lau's flipover throw (f+P+G) near a wall, it guarantees several easy and damaging combos if you hit the wall near lau. Also be careful of the b,df+P+G throw for the same reason. Lau can scrape you off the floor with [3]+[P][K] if you hit the wall.

    [*]A lot of people hate the 50/50 guessing game after any of lau's PPP strings. He can do mid with a flipkick or low with a damaging sweep. Which way should you guard? The answer is pretty easy - always guard low. The sweep is more damaging and knocks down, the flipkick is weak and doesn't knock down. It also has such bad recovery that if you guess wrong and get hit by it, you can still hit lau back right away with any quick attack. Most characters can get a guaranteed [6_](hold forward) [P],[K] combo. Akira should do a double palm. Pai can do [9]+[K][K]. Lau and Goh can land guaranteed [4][6]+[P] standing palm combos. You get the picture.

    [*]When escaping throws using a double throw escape, use [6] and [3] directions against lau. That wipes out FIVE of his throws, and the others aren't good enough to worry you much.
     
  2. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    Changes and additions/corrections for the first section -

    [*]Kage's TFT combo cannot be tech rolled (the carthweel leaves you face up, head towards, from which position tech rolling is not possible).

    [*]A better option to deal with Kage's f+P+G throw, and an alternative to my first option (merely standing up and taking the hit) is to hold the stick towards kage so that if he does the dragon punch into kick, you will end up facing kage and land face up, feet towards. From that position you can tech roll and try to punish the slow recovering dragon punch - kick combo. Nothing is guaranteed but it's better to put kage at a disadvantage than to get slammed and be the one who has to worry.

    [*]After the jumonji punch reversal, [P] is guaranteed, so do [P][P][4]+[P]. You get a small chunk of damage + initiative. Dragon Punch into kick is also guaranteed.

    [*][P][P][4]+[P] is also guaranteed after f+P+G when it's used as a side throw.

    [*]Not a correction, but an addition - this is how you can deal with lau's stance options.
    -Lau does the PPX combo (mid mid mid): Guard high, dodge.
    -Lau does the stance K (mid): Guard high, dodge.
    -Lau does the stance P+K (high, guard staggers): Guard low, backdash, dodge.

    Depending on how much initiative Lau has, you can get out of the various attacks by simply backdashing. The tiger palm is very slow, and lau has no throws or sweeps from stance, so dodging also works fine.

    <font color="red">VS PAI</font>

    ----Escaping Setup Throws----

    [*]Against Pai's stumble throw, just struggle normally and guard. Her only worthwhile combo starters are easily blocked, no special effort is needed. Pai players will generally use this throw to set up simple 50/50 guessing games...i.e. heelkick or throw. If you have the ability to struggle and do EDTEG, try it.

    [*]After [3]+[P][G], pai players have a guaranteed [9]+[K],[K] combo. If they're a little slow, you can block it and punish her. I recommend doing d+G here just in case pai messes up or tries something cute (like a back throw).

    [*]After [4][6]+[P][G], pai has some initiative and is facing your back, testing indicates she is +12 here. A good gamble for the pai player is P --> throw, which turns into a back throw, which leads to a painful combo. If you predict the P-throw, turn towards pai with an attack (ideally a combo starting attack if you have one, i.e. kage's d+K or lion's TT kick). You can also simply duck after the punch, at which point the pai player may choose to mix up P-throw with P-uf+K,K. I'd choose to eat the uf+K,K pretty much every time, considering the painfulness of pai's back throw.

    [*]After [6][4]+[P][G] pai has a guaranteed uf+K,K. I don't worry about this throw because almost all pais with any sense take their guaranteed damage. It seems to be un-strugglable even if pai wanted to do something else.

    [*]When pai does [6][2]+[P][G], she forces you to crouch and has a guaranteed low throw opportunity. Input d+P+K+G and f+P+K+G to ensure you can't be low thrown, then use guard or dodge to ensure she doesn't nail out with a mid attack.

    ----Other Stuff----

    [*]After a FC,[6]+[P][G], you can tech roll to avoid pai's otherwise guaranteed ground punch. Pai doesn't get a ground punch after anything else (including f,f+P+G and basic P+G). She does get a ground punch after a side throw.

    [*]After a back throw, pai can get a [K][P][K] combo on anyone and you cannot struggle out of it. Vs. lighter opponents she can even do better. Ouch.

    [*]One of the stupidest and most painful combos you'll ever eat is pai's (float) --> [P] --> [P] --> [K],[K] --> [8]+[P]. The second hit of her double hit axe kick slams you to the floor, and then she can do her quick pounce before you can roll away... seemingly. Some tricks to avoid that pounce (and therefore reduce the damage of the combo by 25 points)
    ---Tech roll or quick rise with perfect timing after the K,K.
    ---If you fail to do that, mash u+G or d+G. Try to roll away from the leg that kicked you.. i.e. if her near leg kicked you, roll up... out of the screen.
    ---If you are low to the ground when the K,K hits.. you can more easily roll away from the pounce. Watch for pais who try to pounce after (float) --> P --> lifting palms --> K,K combos.
    ---If the pai player does a ground punch, you can't roll out of it. Work on TR/QR timing.
    ---All of this applies to pai players who try to pounce after her new hammer punch (P+K) when it's used in a float.

    [*]Struggling out of pai's f,f+K stagger is easy, but if you get lazy she can use a lifting palm combo on you for a lot of damage. Standard struggling technique will work fine. Ditto for staggers caused by pai's sidekick.

    [*]After pai's no-damage inashi reversals, she gets different amounts of advantage time depending on the attack reversed, stance, etc. You don't need to memorize every possible animation. Your strategy is simple. If you are victim to an inashi reversal, struggle like crazy using the standard techniques. If she hits you anyway, oh well. If she doesn't hit you, punish whatever move she tried (f+K+G nets pai a nice combo if it hits). If pai does a single jab or no attack at all, brace yourself for a 50/50 attack-or-throw guessing game. In my experience pai players are fond of P-->throw. Predict that throw and go for a big combo starter, and she'll be forced to mix up other stuff like P --> lifting palms.

    [*]If pai miraculously lands a charge attack and crumples you, remember to enter d+P+K+G and f+P+K+G double low throw escapes.

    [*]If pai knocks you down and you tech roll, you should be aware of some anti-TR techniques and how to deal with them.

    1. Pai low throws you just as you're coming out of the TR.
    ---Solution: Attack her. Make it a big nasty attack too. You can also dodge, which makes you stand up immediately.

    2. Pai does her tech roll trip on you.
    ---Solution: The tech roll trip is just another low attack, and pai must guess correctly which direction you will roll in. Further, because it's a generic low attack, you can tech roll and then hold [2_]+[G] to always block it, no matter which way you roll. You can also really hurt pai by quick rising. Her whiffed TR trip has awful recovery, something like 40-50 frames.

    3. Pai does a float combo like [K],[P],charged [K]... then she unleashes the charged K just as you're standing up from your tech roll or quick rise. You get staggered and eat a stagger --> standing K float combo.
    ---Solution: Struggling the standing kick is hard. Best not to put yourself in this situation. Watch for a pai player to do K,P.. .then refuse to quick rise or tech roll after that. She recovers too slowly from K,P to really punish you for your failure to get right back up.

    [*]When escaping pai's throws, forward is the most important direction. The others aren't really scary, but forward sets up her 270, her FC throw, her nifty b,f+P+G into back throw trick, and at least 2 other throws. Your second escape should be either [4],[2],or[3]... depending mostly on your opponent's habits.

    <font color="red">VS JACKY</font>

    ----Inashi reversal defense----

    [*]If jacky does an inashi reversal and nothing else against you, he probably screwed up and wanted to do the inashi+backfist. Still, if you are merely inashi'd.. jacky has no guaranteed followup. You can guess between throw and attack, or you can try EDTEG.

    [*]If jacky lands the inashi+backfist, he has a guaranteed throw... in the sense that you cannot attack him out of the throw attempt. You must use a throw escape. Knowing you will do this, Jacky can either use one of his crappy throws which you're less likely to escape (P+G or f,f+P+G)... or he can play a mindgame and go for an interrupt, delayed throw, etc. I recommend doing double throw escapes into guard here. If jacky prevents this with delayed throws, you can predict that next time and really ream him with a combo starter.

    ----Dealing with Shuffle Step----

    [*]Jacky's shuffle step requires him to generally back away a short distance then lunge in close. You can pretty effectively deal with it by just refusing to freeze up. If you freeze up you end up blocking the iaigeri kick and being at a slight disadvantage (jacky can force an elbow-or-throw guessing game here). If you recognize the stance activation and attack right away with a mid, you can stuff most of jacky's attacks or a crouch dash. You can also deal with it by backdashing. There's no shame in running away and refusing to guess between mid, low, CD attack, etc. If he succeeds in landing an iaigeri kick because you flinched or ducked, you eat a heavy stagger and he will generally take a guaranteed f+P,P,K combo. If he screwed up the kick cancel timing and you just eat his lunging kick, he has some advantage but it's humanly possible to struggle out of the f+P,P,K followup. Good jacky players will treat this as an elbow or throw guessing game.

    ----Jacky's High/Mid/Low mixup games----

    [*]Jacky has some of the most fluid switches from high to mid to low in the game. Here's a rundown of what you should watch out for.

    ---From a jab: Jacky can go mid or low with his P-sidekick or a P-sweep. Knowing this, it's best to just guard high. The P-sidekick is only available when jacky's right foot is forward, but who has time to watch out for that? The point is that if you eat the sweep, it's a tiny chunk of damage and you still have frame advantage on jacky. If you eat the sidekick, especially if it staggers you, you're in trouble. Dodging is not a good option after the jab. Dodging loses to P-sweep, to jacky's left-foot-forward P-crescent kick, and also to the common P-throw trick. Guard high and resist the urge to d+P, which may get you staggered.

    ---From a PP: Jacky can go into an elbow (and all elbow followups) or into a low kick. The choice here is again clear... the elbow has the potential to stagger you and it combos into backfist or heelkick on any hit. The low kick has horrible recovery even on a normal hit and it has very little reward, just a small chunk of life. Guard high and fear the elbow, and if you see the elbow, be aware of the backfist followup and punish accordingly. That means crouch for a split second, then minor counter jacky with a from-crouch move as he recovers from his whiffed backfist. If you allow jacky to do a sweep or spinkick after the backfist, you stayed frozen too long. Punish him the instant the backfist finishes missing, don't settle for waiting for his 5th attack.
    One last option to keep in mind after a PP is the u+P straight... it will crush low punches or other attack attempts for a knockdown+guaranteed pounce. So don't d+P when you see PP, you'd lose to the canned elbow combo anyway.

    ---From a PPb+P: To keep things fun and interesting... sega gave jacky this combo which is custom tailored to punish people who stand up and guard for long stretches when he rushes in with a jab. The backfist does nothing for jacky really, but if you keep guarding and allow him to go into the turnaway kick, jacky gets +3 frames and can do one of his nice backturned attacks. Once you see the backfist, duck and allow jacky to whiff his turnaway kick over your head. Then try for a back throw. Jacky can also end with a low kick here, ducking and guarding avoids both high and low so that doesn't matter much. React to the low kick with a throw as well (it recovers high in evo). React to sweeps with an elbow or similar 14-16 frame mid attack.

    ---Your bottom line is to guard high for the first three hits, then regardless of what kind of third hit jacky did, you should probably crouch to avoid a high/low attack.

    ----Other Stuff----

    [*]Dealing with the FC uppercut stagger isn't hard. It's a 50/50 guessing game similar to the lau stumble throw. If you intentionally do not struggle and jacky does an immediate f+P,P,K combo... the combo whiffs due to your distance/height. If you struggle, then you stand up just in time to eat it. To prevent you from just refusing to struggle, a jacky player can dash forward and then do f+P,P,K. That'll smack you cleanly if you're still stumbling.
    Your guessing game then is to either struggle (assuming jacky will try to dash in and attack) or don't struggle (if you're sure jacky will go for an immediate f+P,P,K). Be aware that this stagger also sets up fairly rough attack-or-throw guessing games for jacky if he feels you're escaping the f+P,P,K too well.

    [*]It was the strongest combo ender in version C, but you shouldn't be forced to eat combos like this now: (float) --> f+P+K (slams you) --> ground kick. In evo B, tech roll or quick rise the f+P+K. You definitely shouldn't eat a pounce if the f+P+K slams you, and yet it happens to good players anyway. I think it has to do with how high up the f+P+K hits you in the air. Either way, struggle to roll sideways once you're slammed. That should avoid a pounce (though not a ground kick).

    <font color="red">VS SARAH</font>

    ----Dealing with Flamingo Stance----

    [*]When sarah enters flamingo, she almost always has entered it by using a move that puts her at a +4 or so frame advantage. Quite a few of her moves do this... b+P+K, b+K, df+P,K, etc. Once Sarah is in flamingo, you are generally behind in frames and it's a guessing game.

    ---Often Sarah opens with standing K. It beats any attack... high punch, low punch, elbow, etc. It's fast, special high, and just outprioritizes anything you might try due to frame advantage.
    ---Solution: Since it's special high, you can just duck it. If you're the sort of player who can easily spot stance, then you can always dodge to sarah's front to avoid the kick(s). This nets the biggest reward since she can't guard in stance (time to use a knee or some other big float starter). Don't allow sarah to keep pelting you with these kicks. As a general rule, a lot of the strong flamingo moves are avoided by simply crouching. Crouching beats this kick, the hook kick (which is used to hit people who dodge to sarah's front), both flamingo throws, df+P sequences, and most punch sequences. Ducking still loses to flamingo sidekicks, P-sidekick, or kickflip. All of these are miniscule damage. Sarah also has a gigantic heel sword from the stance, but most players don't use it because it's really slow. You should be able to stand and guard it on reflex.

    My standard strategy to flamingo is to duck briefly, watch for the special high kick to start, and once it whiffs, I'll throw out a low jab to prevent sarah from continuing into flamingo K,K,K canned combos. If you know the opponent will stop at one kick, you might be able to insert a nasty from crouch tool here, such as a shoulder ram, upknife, FC upper, etc.

    Don't be too predictable with low punches. If sarah lands the flamingo low punch reversal, there's absolutely no way to struggle out of the heelsword followup, which means sarah gets a free nasty combo.


    ----Other Stuff----

    [*]Throw escaping against sarah is tough. I recommend going with [6] and [1] escapes. Sarah players like the f,db+P+G throw since it guarantees a ground kick. The damage from the [4] direction is low unless she's near a wall.

    [*]Sarah's rising knee game is irritating. It prevents you from landing the enormous combo you feel entitled to when you block it. If sarah does just a rising knee by itself, she's -15 frames. However if she does the descending knee as well, she's -14 frames. You don't get a huge guaranteed float combo starter for blocking it either way. If sarah does just the rising knee and you suspect she's going to land and use the second knee, your best reaction is to
    probably just punch or do a P,K combo if you've got a decent one. If you try
    to throw you're going to eat the second knee, while the punch will always work.

    [*]When sarah backflips out of her stance, she isn't completely impossible to hit. Wait for the end of the backflip and then throw her after crouch dashing in. You can also time an attack to catch her at the end of the backflip but it's nearly impossible.

    [*]When sarah is near you and you're tempted to do a delayed rising attack, beware of her [9]+[K]. It's got unusual priority over rising attacks.. it'll never lose to a low rising attack and often will beat a high rising attack with half-decent timing. Once it connects a followup combo is guaranteed.

    [*]When sarah moonsaults over you, you can just turn around and throw her as she lands, since that's faster than any turn towards attack (and since most TT attacks tend to be pretty crappy). The catch is that your throws are escapeable. You can opt for a TT attack if you have a decent one (like kage's backturned [2]+[K] or Akira's [P]+[K] bodycheck.
     
  3. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    Next up: Wolf

    <font color="red">VS WOLF</font>

    ----After a catch---


    [*]Wolf can enter his catch throw from f+P+G or after b,b+P+G. The f+P+G puts you in standard catch position, the b,b+P+G puts you behind the opponent (where all your options cause more damage). The f+P+G throw executes slightly slower than a normal throw, but it's still faster than a jab, and unescapeable. If wolf hits you with a jab (especially if it's a MC), then you will eat the catch throw afterwards unless you immediately do a low attack. You cannot (standing) attack him or dodge or guard or duck it. The other catch method, bb+P+G, is quite slow and can be recognized immediately. If you have any sort of reflexes, you can attack him out of it. To be safe, make sure it's a low attack... he can catch you during the execution of standing attacks.
    This is all in a neutral situation. You should be aware that good wolf players can use it in specific situations, for example if they predict a high rising attack they can backdash out of it and nab you with b,b+P+G. Watch out of those sorts of catches. If you're caught, enter an appropriate escape. These are the escapes you should do after f+P+G, from highest priority to lowest -

    --[4]+[P]+[G] - 60 points.
    --[1]+[P]+[G] -also 60 points.
    --[3]+[P]+[G] - The shove guarantees wolf a b+P, which can be followed with a pounce, and in some cases a combo. The damage varies depending on the combo, but you can count on at least 46 points.
    ----[P]+[G] - 45 points.

    --[6]+[P]+[G] - 0 pts of damage, but sets up more damaging followups which you must escape. This is the position you're in after b,b+P+G. Don't worry about escaping this direction when caught normally... you can escape all the followups so I recommend never escaping it unless your opponent seems to use it every single time.
    ----(after change)[6]+[P]+[G] - sets up a damaging short shoulder combo, such as SS --> P,P --> knee. ~70 damage.
    ----(after change)[4]+[P]+[G] - This hurts a ton also, 70 points.
    ----(after change)[3]+[P]+[G] - 65 points.
    ----(after change) [P]+[G] - 60 points.

    So the bottom line is escape either b+P+G or db+P+G... and if wolf did change, escape f+P+G. That's assuming you're playing someone who tries for the best possible damage all the time. If you're not, learn the animations for each throw and escape whichever ones your opponent seems to favor.

    ----After a surprise exchange ([1]+[P]+[G])----


    [*]For every character, the best option seems to be to run away by using an uf+P hop. Press and hold [9_]+[P] and you'll avoid all attacks and any throw attempt. Some characters can do a fast move like lion's u+P+K to run away while backturned too.


    [*]Be especially sure to escape this throw when wolf's back is to the edge of the ring, whether the arena has walls or not. If there's now all, you could go out of the ring for an automatic loss. If there is a wall you eat massive damage from a wall stagger + combo. You also have to fear wolf's hcf+P+G when his back is to the wall, so you're in a lot of danger if you give wolf a throw opportunity in this situation I'd avoid trying to pressure wolf out of the ring, once his back is near the edge you should consider backdashing to the safer area in the middle of the ring.

    ----Wolf's Throw/Low Throw Game----


    [*]When using double throw escapes, you should escape f and b directions first. Forward is especially important, he has two 80 point throws from this position, and one of them will do 100 pts or more with the help of a wall. Escape df as your third direction, and be aware of db when you have your back to the wall or the edge of the ring.


    [*]Against low throws, all three are strong but the df direction is strongest. The db direction is second best and d+P+K+G is the weakest. All of them are good so you really should try to bang out escapes for all three when you're in a predictable low throw situation. At least double escape df and db.


    [*]Remember that in non-guaranteed throw situations a catch can be beaten by a low attack. If you're predicting a throw and try to get out of it with a big move, you might be disappointed and end up eating a catch. It may be best to just d+P when you're at a medium disadvantage. Wolf's float combo starter is very slow and is often stuffed with d+P, even if you're behind 4 or 5 frames. However his knee is quick enough to win in these situations. Using d+P predictably is also punishable with other techniques like low throwing the whiffed low jab or (if the wolf is pretty good) doing a backdash into an immediate buffered shoulder, which smacks you during the recovery. Again, base your reactions on what your opponent's wolf seems to be able to do.

    ----Other Stuff----


    [*]Wolf's old version C combo for maximum damage was something like knee/s.s. --> P --> b+P --> pounce. It should go without saying if you know about the changes from version C to evo, but you can now TR the slam from the elbow drop. That means you shouldn't eat the pounce and wolf will have to get more creative to do 90+ points of damage to you. Practice TRing this, it's not hard.


    [*]Wolf's knee doesn't guarantee a low throw like other crumples, but stuff like b+K+G, K is guaranteed. I'd recommend not tech rolling after you eat such a combo (or after the TR-able knee collapse animation). Wolf can get a free hit to your back at the end of the TR. Also, if the knee hits normally, wolf is at a small disadvantage and your low punch will beat just about anything he tries. Watch out for wolf's low punch reversal though.


    [*]When wolf does a true belly crumple, a low throw is guaranteed for him. Mash out triple low throw escapes, since you can't do anything to prevent a combo followup anyway. You have to get into the habit of doing this after every single stomach crumple (against ANY low throw capable opponent). Again remember that TRing after a crumple is a bad idea. A good alternative is to just QR or stay down.


    [*]The P+K charge attack (pimp slap) can be very scary even if it's blocked. Don't stand there and allow wolf to charge it, because if he charges it fully and you guard it, you're probably eating a combo. As soon as you recognize the animation, dodge to wolf's back. If it helps, you want to dodge AWAY from his hand, in the same direction he's going to swing his forearm.


    [*]The b,f+P charge attack is easy to deal with if it's not charged... you just duck and wolf trips over you and you can turn around and attack him as he lays on the ground. If he charges it, it becomes a little more scary. He can charge fully, at which point you'll take massive damage + a small combo if it hits... or he can pretend to charge and then cancel the move and try something else (i.e. a throw). Your best reaction is to crouch and if wolf is close, low punch. If he cancels it up close he could i.e. low throw you, so it becomes necessary to d+P in situations where you're sure you can stuff him. If you're NOT sure you can stuff him, like you're far away... stick to just crouching. If you attack or dodge and get caught with the charged shoulder ram, you're losing half your life. Don't flinch.


    [*]Wolf's hcb+P,P is his only real elbow-class attack, Wolf players use it when they have a small advantage and need something quick enough to beat your d+P. If you're lucky enough to guard the first one, remember to immediately crouch and prepare for the second hit (which is not really delayable). Note that you can't guard the first one in a crouch, it'll stand you up and allow the second punch to smack you. If you stand and block the first hit and then crouch right away, the second one whiffs over your head. If you are lucky enough to be in that situation, you can punish with guaranteed from crouch attacks. If you freeze up and block it, wolf is safe and you're pushed away from him.
    If the wolf player sometimes does one spinning punch (and other times both hits)... you can train yourself to react with d+P after every spin punch. You will either get a minor counter hit after the second punch, or you may get an interrupt if wolf tried to attack after his first spin punch failed.


    [*]Wolf's FC uppercut causes a situation similar to jacky's FC upper stagger (if it interrupts you, you fall on your rear and struggle to stand up). The best way to deal with it is to struggle and then crouch. That way you will avoid eating hits during the stagger, and also avoid throws. If you fail to struggle, wolf's f+P will crumple you and you'll eat a damaging combo. If you do struggle, you still have a guessing game. By struggling and crouching, you are still at risk from low throws or certain nasty mid attacks like the toe kick --> stunner hit throw. Generally though you can struggle, crouch, and watch to see if wolf tries to attack or if he dashed to get close. If he dashes up to you, I'd recommend struggling and low punching. If he didn't move, be careful low punching. He's at a range and has enough frame advantage where your low punch will lose to a short shoulder. If wolf doesn't dash, you're safely out of throw range and should therefore just struggle, guard, and then decide what to do next.


    [*]Wolf's f+P isn't a true elbow, but it is a fast, now-uncounterable mid. Don't fall into the trap of dealing with it by low punching. There are two things that can go wrong if you do:
    1. Wolf does the second hit of his f+P,P combo and you eat a small chunk of damage and get knocked down.
    2. Wolf is always far enough away that after his f+P is blocked... your d+P will whiff if Wolf simply stands there without holding guard. Advanced Wolf players can use this fact to bait you into low punching and then getting low thrown when your d+P whiffs.
    I'd recommend using a quick mid or throw guessing game after wolf's f+P is blocked.


    [*]Wolf's ground throws consist of df+P+G (damage) or d+P+G (sets up a stagger situation). The second one has no guaranteed followups, but it sets up a nasty 50/50 guessing game for wolf. I don't know of any easy solution for dealing with it. Struggling and then guarding low is good, but not great - wolf can still hit you with a short shoulder, reverse sledgehammer combo for 50 points, as much as a decent throw. He can also low throw you if he predicts your reaction. If you have the skill, you can dodge and double throw escape... but that's foiled easily by many different tricks... wolf can use a throw direction you weren't expecting, he can catch you, he can let you do a failed dodge and then use the toekick-stunner hit throw while you're still unable to guard... etc. Plus, E-DTEG in this situation is difficult and you could just screw it up.
    Your easiest option is probably to just try to guess right. Struggling and guarding a big move like wolf's short shoulder gives you a decent reward. Struggling and predicting a throw gives you a huge reward, you can i.e. use a guaranteed float combo starter on wolf as he whiffs the throw.


    [*]Wolf's dodge throw seems irritating at first, but is easily dealt with. He lunges away from you and crouches, and seems impossible to hit during the animation. Then he comes at you and tosses you with a special side throw (assuming he caught your side). If he catches you directly in the front, he does a generic P+G throw. If he catches you in the back, it's a back throw, which can't be escaped and hurts a lot. There are two ways to deal with it... if you predict it, you can actually low throw wolf as he crouches. You can try to attack him out of it, but the throw seems to override attacks pretty well. I'd recommend crouching and letting wolf whiff the throw attempt over your head.
    If you are about to be thrown and cannot do anything about it, quickly enter either f+P+G or b+P+G. If wolf dodged ABOVE you (which I think most players do) you need to enter f+P+G. If wolf ended up below you, enter b+P+G to escape the throw. Escaping it on reflex is very doable.


    [*]After wolf's 270, if you fail to TR/QR then his b,f+K+G minipounce is guaranteed. A ground throw is also guaranteed, and if you fail to break a df+P+G afterwards, you've lost 110 points of life. Ow. So make sure you learn the timing to TR/QR this throw. And if you fail to do it, break the df+P+G ground throw (since the other throw guarantees nothing). If your back is to the wall and wolf 270's you, you will hit the wall and generally be unable to avoid the pounce or ground throw. Bummer for you.


    [*]It's not something you'll see expert wolf players use a lot, but be aware of his f,f+P... it's an unblockable high attack that smacks predictable dodges. If you have bad reflexes then you might find yourself standing up and guarding as wolf rushes in and clotheslines you. If you get knocked down by it, generally a pounce or ground throw are guaranteed. You cannot TR/QR the hit. Be aware of it and try not to dodge your way out of every situation... especially be careful of abusing dodge attacks, it tends to stuff them cleanly for a ton of damage.
    If you crouch and wolf passes by you, punishing him isn't always reliable because he's sort of sideways or behind you. I tend to tap guard to align my character and throw him.


    [*]Wolf's f+K+G is completely uncounterable when blocked, despite what you see on the screen. If it hits, you are stumbled and should struggle right away to ensure you block a followup f+P. It's not hard, but if you fail to struggle... the f+P crumples you and you'll eat a painful combo. Once the wolf player catches on to your struggling ability, he will mix f+P up with throw attempts.


    [*]The hcf+P+G (giant swing) comes in two flavors. One must be executed with a super fast HCF+P+G, the other can be done with a normal hcf+P+G motion. Escaping in the f+P+G direction takes care of either one, but you should be aware that the basic, easy-to-do hcf+P+G has a special grab animation with super long range. It's also slower than a normal throw, by just a hair. So if you're in a position where you usually are too far away to throw, or you can usually avoid the throw with a backdash...remember wolf's hcf+P+G and be prepared to escape it anyway, just in case. Some moves that are hard to throw but can be easily tossed by hcf+P+G include lion's f+K+G or some character's sidekicks. Also, learn the timing to QR/TR the throw... if you are used to tech rolling after the throw and eating full damage, you should be aware that a perfectly timed QR/TR will reduce damage by 20 points. Put in some time practicing this, the perfect QR/TR timing applies to many other throws and is a good skill to have. Remember that the twirl ends with wolf throwing you behind him, so be extra careful when he has his back to the edge of the ring. Perfect TR/QR cannot save you if you hit a wall or go out of the ring.
     
  4. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    for Jeffry...

    <font color="red">VS JEFFRY</font>

    ----Jeff's Throw/Low Throw Game----


    [*]If you do double throw escapes in the [6] and [3] direction against jeffry, you are escaping his two best throws, two wall throws, and at least one or two other crappy throws. So escaping vs Jeffry is sort of a no brainer. He has two zero damage throws in the [1] and [4] directions and one ok throw in the [2] direction. So really all you need to fear is the [2] throw if you double throw escape [6] and [3], right? Almost... if you're near a wall, things change. The [1] throw near a wall can lead to insane chunks of damage, and you'll be lucky to struggle and block the followup here. The [4] throw can also lead to high damage - it's 40 points just for any wall hit, and if they bounce off the wall a certain way jeff can combo with stuff like K,K,P. He needs a pretty specific wall hit to set up the damaging combo after b+P+G, so I'd worry more about db+P+G near a wall.

    [*]Against jeffry's low throws, you have high damage in the [6] direction, high damage in the [3] direction, and decent damage in the [2] direction. Escape for at least the first two when you're in a predictable low throw situation.


    ----Dealing with Threat Stance----


    [*]Jeffry can enter threat stance anytime with P+K+G, or go into a canned threat stance after his PP or b+P+K. Once in threat stance jeffry has a few attacks.
    --[P]: The threat stance punch does good damage and can be followed with a guaranteed pounce. It's also half circular so you need to pay attention if you plan on dodging it. I recommend ducking it, since it hits high.
    --[P],[6]+[P][G]: If you want to get cute, jeffry can cancel the punch with a special throw if the opponent is in range and holding guard. You pretty much have to enter f+P+G at the moment the punch is blocked. The timing is similar to that of a hit throw, but you don't want to hit them. It doesn't work if the opponent isn't guarding. Therefore... don't just stand and guard when jeffry is close to you. He can get a big damaging combo from this throw so you should just duck to avoid the punch or the throw. If you block the punch and jeffry fails to throw you (he never should) then you only have a small advantage.
    --[K]: The threat stance kick is a quick little sidekick that crumples on MC. Dodging gives you the most reward, but you want to watch out that you don't dodge the wrong way into the threat stance punch. Definitely don't try to attack jeff, since a major counter from this attack (or the punch) is bad news.
    The kick has no guaranteed counterattack when guarded. If you crouch and it hits you, you only take a small bit of damage, so crouching is the safe option if you're scared of the possibility of his threat stance [P].
    --[P]+[K]: This move is the slowest attack, and can be dodged in either direction, but it gives jeffry a damaging combo or guaranteed throw if it MC's. It also gives a nice advantage on normal hit and staggers the opponent if they guard. It hits mid so you cannot just duck to be safe. This is definitely the nastiest move in jeffry's stance arsenal. You should dodge it.

    Bottom line: It's chicken, but if you just crouch, jeffry won't be able to hurt you too bad, and there's no way for him to land a combo or a throw. If you have a little more nerve, just dodge all his threat stance followups. You simply need to train your reflexes to always dodge to jeffry's front. Even if you screw up, dodging will beat all of jeffry's other options and it'll dodge the [P] attack half the time. You probably should NOT try to attack or guard. Resist the urge to low punch and remember that if you block any of these attacks, jeffry is not throw counterable.

    ----Dealing with Charge Attacks----


    [*]Jeffry's chargeable db+K may cause you to freeze up until you've seen it a few times... it's a low attack, but Jeffry stays standing while he charges it. It's not immediately obvious that he's about to kick your ankle. Eventually you'll recognize the animation and you can then guard low on reflex. A better option is to dodge it to jeffry's back. Just think of it in terms of which direction jeffry's leg will be swinging when he does the kick and you'll dodge it correctly. Blocking it isn't that great because if Jeffry charges it, he's got frame advantage if it's blocked.

    [*]Jeff's other charge attack will annoy you because the charge animation is reminiscent of the db+K's charge animation, and it must be dodged in the other direction. Blocking it is not an option, because when it's fully charged it's unblockable and hits mid. You'll take full damage + a pounce. So you MUST train yourself to dodge it to jeffry's front. Again, you're dodging in the same direction as jeffry's swinging. If you have trouble spotting the difference between the two charge attacks and keep dodging in the wrong direction, you can practice it as one of the challenge mode trials in VF4:evo for the PS2. I recommend doing it that way and learning which way to dodge. You can also try to attack jeffry on reflex if he's in jab range, and some dodge attacks may allow you to beat the charge moves even if you dodge the wrong way.

    ----Other Stuff----


    [*]When you are thrown with b+P+G (military press) you can QR, TR, just take the damage. Taking the damage is lame, so I recommend TRing. At the end of a TR you can dodge, guard high or low, attack, etc. Remember to TR in a direction that helps you the most (i.e. keeps you away from walls or the edge of the ring, or puts jeffry closer to the edge). After QRing you are stuck guarding high or low. TR and then E-DTE-G is probably the best option until the jeffry player adapts and nails you with a half circular move or an unusual throw.

    [*]A lot of jeffry players will try to set up 50/50 guessing games by making you block moves like f,f+P or b,df+P. You then have to fear the second punch, and if you try to guard or dodge it, jeffry may throw you. One reliable solution is to dodge attack, but if jeffry just guards... you're in trouble. You can simply crouch in the case of f,f+P ... if the second punch hits you while you're crouching, you'll take no damage and have a small advantage on jeffry. I recommend watching to see if the jeffry player delays between the two hits at all... and if he does, you can jab him out of the second hit.

    [*]If you successfully dodge jeffry's b+K, don't try to dodge attack because the followup P will smack you out of it every time. Get used to dodging the b+K and then guarding or ducking under the followup hit.

    [*]Your opponent should not be abusing d+K+G against you. It once was a popular attack because in earlier versions it could crumple for a guaranteed pounce. Now it doesn't, and on a normal hit jeffry is at a disadvantage. Use that disadvantage to inflict an elbow-or-throw guessing game on him.

    [*]The heel drop (f+K+G) guarantees a throw for jeffry if it hits, enter [6] and [3] escapes. If it is guarded, you are staggered. Don't mindlessly enter throw escapes if you block the move, struggle: If you predict jeffry's throw attempt, you can connect with a powerful attack as soon as you recover. Beware of a more intelligent jeffry player who will use the stagger to inflict a knee-or-throw guessing game. Also keep in mind that this move can eat up rising attacks pretty reliably. You might want to just skip doing high rising attacks against jeffry until you can see that the f+K+G is past its hit detection phase.

    [*]After getting hit by jeffry's f,b+P (the hook that turns you around) the fastest and safest way to turn around is df,df+G. You should sort of fuzzy guard as you turn around so that you can duck under dash-into-throw... and still stand up in time to guard a mid attack. If jeffry MC's you with this move, followups like f,f+P,P are guaranteed. So if you df,df+G fails, don't sweat it, there was nothing you could have done probably anyway.

    [*]Jeffry's b,f+P is half circular, so if you keep trying to get out of trouble with something like E-DTE-G... and you keep eating the painful b,f+P combo...you have two options:
    1. Predict the b,f+P and punish accordingly.
    2. EDTEG anyway, but keep track of which way to dodge (go to jeffry's front).

    [*]After being crumpled, remember to enter double or triple low throw escapes to avoid tons of damage. If you are crumpled by f+P+K (middle hell stab) or the threat stance sidekick, you can be low thrown. If you are crumpled by b,f+P... that's a head crumple so jeffry cannot low throw you (he should just take the guaranteed K,K,P combo anyway). If you're crumpled by the charged ankle kick, it's a foot crumple and you don't need to worry about low throw escapes. Only stomach crumples can be low thrown.

    [*]Jeffry's running attack is unblockable, it hits high so if jeffry runs at you, you should probably duck. If you fail to do this, you will get hit and cannot TR/QR.

    [*]Jeffry's FC uppercut causes butt stumble on MC, you're in a standard stagger situation. Jeffry has no safe, easy, reliable followup to this sort of stumble the way that jacky does. Therefore you are faced with a simple struggle-and-guess situation. The jeffry player will probably try to do either knee or throw.

    [*]Be aware of the counterability of jeffry's various combo starters. He has several so you should memorize the best punishment for each.
    --Knee (f+K): The easiest and most reliable one, with the worst recovery. It's -14 when guarded, so just punish jeff with throw, a standing palm type of attack, a canned elbow combo, etc. Everyone should be able to punish jeffry here with a decent chunk of guaranteed damage.
    --Kenka Uppercut (df,df+P): A little slower than the knee, but the tradeoff is that it's only throw counterable. It's not punch counterable by anyone.
    --Double Upper (df+P,P): Also throw counterable, the tradeoff is that it's quick (15 frames) but you can only get a fairly weak combo from it (d+P --> d+K+G is best).
    --Double Hammer (b,f,f+P+K): Gives the absolute nastiest float, but is only throw counterable like the others. The tradeoff is that it's the slowest float starter ever.
    --FC Uppercut (FC,df+P): It's not a guaranteed combo starter, but the good news for jeffry is that it's uncounterable if blocked.

    Bottom line: Nothing except the knee is punch counterable. Figure out the best counter to a blocked knee for your character, and remember to use it every time - don't waste a guaranteed 50-60 points of damage by trying for an escapeable throw or (worst of all) just low punching. As for the others...take your guaranteed throw when you block one of these, and try to use a rarely used throw direction. You can also try to inflict a knee-or-throw guessing game. I recommend taking the guaranteed throw however, even if you're forced to use a weak one. Also keep the (un)counterability of the FC uppercut in mind and don't try to throw it. Respond with an elbow-or-throw guessing game afterwards. If it hits without stumbling you, it's a neutral situation.

    [*]After jeffry's toe kick hits, the punch followup is guaranteed if the jeffry player committed to it right away. If they didn't, you still have to fear the toe kick of doom (it will hit you if you guard, dodge, or dash). Avoid the TKOD by crouching, and if the jeffry player does the hammer punch followup you should be able to stand and block it on reflex. If you eat it, it's no big deal. Lastly, if the toe kick MC's, you cannot get out of the TKOD. The crucifix piledriver followup is guaranteed, even if the toe kick interrupted a crouching attack (it stands you up).

    [*]Jeff's bigass boot (f,f+K) is uncounterable if blocked. Don't be baited into trying to throw it. Jeffry actually has a small advantage if it's guarded, due to the heavy blockstun it inflicts.

    [*]The only force-crouch attack that guarantees a low throw is jeffry's db+P+K. If you learn to recognize the animation you should remember to low throw escape after it hits you. For any other force crouch move, you can just attack or dodge to avoid the low throw.
     

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