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Ok NO raping this topic with all your stupid shit guys, ok? this is for tactics, if you really want to discuss salad tossing techniques or whatever, do it somewhere else. Ok now if i connect with her + and i wait to see if it's a MC by just seeing my opponents reaction, if it is just a regular hit and i use her double stop will it be too slow to beat out any attack like someone said it would? What i'm asking is, is the recovery time of the chop enough to allow me a litle slack on when i bust out the double palm or will i need to really listen for the noise and look for the flash?

 

Hey - you have absolutely no time to slack off if you want to stuff the opponent's attack with a double stop after a normal hit df+P+K.

Df+P+K gives you +1, double stop is 13 frames, so you can stop 12 frame attacks like d+P. If you wait one frame the opponent's d+P wins.

IMO it seems impossible to really use the df+P+K this way, you just have to be concentrating too much to spot the difference. To be fair,the opponent may have trouble seeing the difference and hesitate a bit too, or they may not choose to d+P at all because they have no idea how many frames behind a df+P+K puts them and they don't want to risk attacking.
It looks like it gives massive advantage even thought it doesn't, and similar moves like goh's b+P give big advantage on a normal hit (goh is +4).

 

say i bust out the double stop right away just to be safe, on a normal hit instead of a MC or something after the chop what kind of frame advantage will i have? will i be able to stay on the offensive? or should i just really capitilize on the MC?

 

+ is -4 on hit but +1 if the opponent crouch guards it. Most of Aoi's moves put her at disadvantage on normal hit so you have to focus on these situations more.

 

so theres no use in me mixing up the double stop after the chop with delaying my next attack to see if it will MC...what does the double stop do if they're crouched but not guarding? like if the chop MCs and forces them to a crouch.

 

An important point to keep in mind while playing Aoi is that being in medium disadvantage is still like having advantage. She can sabaki, inashi or reverse through many of the common attacks an opponent will throw out in retaliation.

Take the + hit situation for example:
At -4, a middle kick class attack (or launcher in many cases) will beat +. In anticipation of this, you can reverse mid and do double throw escape. If you reverse middle kick and it's the right leg (I believe, it's the one where she holds one leg up and crunches it), you get a free down throw or pounce. If the opponent tries a safer elbow and you reverse it, pounce is guaranteed. Say you don't know if the opponent will go for these moves and will try to safely poke with , you can do inashi and pretty much escape most attacks while inflicting some damage. Another option is to use ++ if the opponent is elbow happy or a character that has a lot of good moves such as Akira (DE, SDE, P, all single palms, yoho) since it will sabaki and then crumple the opponent. Do + afterwards and they are set into a nasty guessing game. If they TR, you go for backstagger +. If it's QR, do ++ to hit them in the rising animation which crumples them again. If the opponent decides to not recover, do + and down throw if they don't recover from that.

 

wow you really are a great help! what is this reverse double throw escape you speak of /versus/images/graemlins/shocked.gif how fast do i need to be to do this? also after the + MCs why is the guaranteed when it's high? and why wouldn't the be guaranteed? same frame execution i think ...

 

reversal - double throw escape is like evade double throw escape. You input the commands for the reversal you want (usually mid, +), then the commands for the throws you want to escape. I think you should be able to practice it in e-dte training. Just remember it doesn't help you after a move where you're severely disadvantaged.

about being guaranteed, when you're reading execution times for series of attacks in in the movelists, that execution time is only for the last hit of the string; is slower, since it includes 2 punches instead of 1. I don't quite understand why high attacks hit after the force crouch, though.

Since there seems to now be another Aoi thread going, has anyone found any setups for her sidekick sabaki? Unless you're playing someone that likes to whore out sidekicks from range, + just seems like a really risky way to get a crumple.

 

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SoundWave said:

wow you really are a great help! what is this reverse double throw escape you speak of /versus/images/graemlins/shocked.gif how fast do i need to be to do this? also after the + MCs why is the guaranteed when it's high? and why wouldn't the be guaranteed? same frame execution i think ...

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I'm not sure but I think the reversal double throw escape is like the dodge double throw escape but you do reversal instead or dodge...
++ and quickly 2 throw escape
,so if your opponent don't attack but throw you,his attemps will miss

I'm surprising that , is free after MC ++,but it works very well!
, works too,i think but it is not interesting....(,, is not a real combo,only the two punches are connected)
In tactics advcies,i see that after a combo like ++/+, a ++is garanteed if they QR?
i find it so great but the timing is soooo hard,do you think it really works? the oponent after QR can do a low punch,isn't he?
as for as the backsatgger combo,IMO doing the elbow ++,- is esier than the side kick /versus/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

 

I have posted my matchs video here:
http://virtuafighter.com/versuscity/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=media&Number=84266&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
they are all Aoi(me) vs lei fei
anyone can tell me whta is wrong with my Aoi,it is so hard to beat my brother's lei fei!! /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif

PS:sorry if my english is bad,but i don't speak it very well..........

 

First off, thank you for being willing to post videos of your play & ask for comments. I think it's a good way to learn.

Secondly, I don't get any play time against human lei fei players, so my advice may not be good. Read gaijin punch and chanchai's documents on aoi in her section of the main page if you haven't already. Its vf4, but most of it applies to evo.

Anyway, here's some things I noticed:

The only thing i would say is outright "wrong" is whiffing 3 reversals in a row right one right after another. If you whiff a reversal, don't try another one, go on the defensive with evade / throw escape / guard options. It seems like you've got throw escapes down, so work that strength.

You seem to use + a lot, maybe too often for such an unsafe move. You also use the +,,, g-cancel strings as a way to start long-range offense. You do this often enough that he doesn't fall for them. If you're going to g-cancel that move, try doing it from slightly closer range, like after a short dash, so he'll have more trouble telling whether it would actually hit if you follow through. Also try mixing up her elbows; I'm not sure I saw or + used at all. They've got different properties in terms of speed, range and dodge restrictions as compared to .

G-cancelling in longer strings is generally regarded as harder to read than g-cancelling after one or two moves. ,, and , g-cancelling may work better for you than just cancelling after one elbow or down kick.

I saw you poking from mid-long range with and +. Try using at closer range in situations where lei wants to sabaki you; it's fast and double limbed so it should stop his sabaki. Try using + after one of your elbow variations is blocked. All of aoi's single elbows (for that matter, half of her movelist) after block put her in a situation where that sabaki will work.

 

ya i only really had time to watch one video but i dont think i saw you reverse one move in that round, maybe i saw the fluke round but still you should really make lei fei pay for trying that silly lunging punch /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif my brother plays Lei fei too. Also in that same match you didn't once use YY stance and you really didn't throw much. Play into her strong suits more throwing/defense and obviously her speed.

 

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The only thing i would say is outright "wrong" is whiffing 3 reversals in a row right one right after another. If you whiff a reversal, don't try another one,

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You'd think so, right? I've seen some Kofu Megane replays where the whiffed reversal is ubiquitous...I don't wanna recommend anything, just had to say that guys at a high level get away with this. Of course, if I were to do it, I'd get kicked in the face. /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

Thank you for all your comments and remarks! /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

yes,don't worry about the three reversals wiffs,i'm sure at this moment i just want to absolutely reverse one of his move lol
indeed,in thes matches,we only play for fun,so never i would pretend to play like good level players (i admirate kofu megane and mikina's Aoi,they're are too strong! /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif)............. for the reversals,i have more video in which i reverse a lot(very cool!!!):inashi,YY parry.....(but you know all that reversals are not very used,i see a little in Aoi's video matchs from the media forum)
are you interested to see some more? /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif
yes,i agree,show my global Aoi game with videos is the best way to learn more and practice!!
thank you for you,guys,i'm very grateful! /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

Just a few observactions. Your brother does seem to know what's coming after
+. On that note, I think you only cancelled the elbows about once or twice in the two clips I watched. Don't be afraid of the cancels, and don't be afraid to use + at close range. Here's the ones I generally use:

From semi-long range:
++
++ (I don't use the last )

Short range:
+->throw
+standing->+
++

+ -- my favorite cancel. I didn't see this once.
You also used + after hit. Never seen that... not saying it wouldn't work, but I usually use it after + or are blocked. It seems the side kick wouldn't give the necessary distance for it to work.

I don't think you used

+ TOO much. I use it a lot as well.

I think in general, you need to play w/ the cancels a bit more... especially the elbows.

Also if your bro comes out with + again, surprise him with a low throw.

 

[ QUOTE ]
GaijinPunch said:

Just a few observactions. Your brother does seem to know what's coming after
+. On that note, I think you only cancelled the elbows about once or twice in the two clips I watched. Don't be afraid of the cancels, and don't be afraid to use + at close range. Here's the ones I generally use:

From semi-long range:
++
++ (I don't use the last )

Short range:
+->throw
+standing->+
++

+ -- my favorite cancel. I didn't see this once.
You also used + after hit. Never seen that... not saying it wouldn't work, but I usually use it after + or are blocked. It seems the side kick wouldn't give the necessary distance for it to work.

I don't think you used

+ TOO much. I use it a lot as well.

I think in general, you need to play w/ the cancels a bit more... especially the elbows.

Also if your bro comes out with + again, surprise him with a low throw.

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you're right,I use the sweep too often....... /versus/images/graemlins/crazy.gif lol
About the elbow cancels,i don't dare to use it more because he expect it a lot,so always when the first elbow + or ++ hit him or blocked,he goes for a + so I can't throw him
And he likes abuse with lei fei's stance(I don't know what is the command or the name) what can auto reverse low punch ,punch and elbow........ /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif

thanks for your set ups after ++, ganjinpunch,i will integrate it into my game
I love sweep cancel because i think it is a good psychologic weapon to make my brother fear of this low move...I have tried it on several players,when they see the sweep animation(fast IMO),whatever it is cancelled or not,they tend to crouch guard a few second or more,so that's why i go for ++ to stagger them,it works well even if they try to attack after realizing the sweep don't hit them...
what do you think?

at close range,it can't be denied that i'm afraid of being punishes badly,so I didn't try sweep cancel ,only in cases of good distance ......lei fei is fast,his ++ comes too fast!!!!!!!!!!!

I will show you others vids(not very better,sorry),it seems that you see very well what is wrong with my Aoi /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

here:
http://dyt4.free.fr/1.zip
http://dyt4.free.fr/2.zip
http://dyt4.free.fr/3.zip
http://dyt4.free.fr/4.zip
http://dyt4.free.fr/5.zip
http://dyt4.free.fr/6.zip

I have some vids in which Frenchakira's Lion kicked my ass(ggrrrr very too fast and too strong,Lion!),don't know if it will be interesting..... /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

another move I like that I didn't mention, which can't be over-used, but a couple of times a match won't hurt.
+
Sometimes they'll catch one -- might want to dodge and whatnot.

Also, as I've stated many times before, with delays between the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th punch is your friend! Try to draw a low punch between punches 2 and 3 and he's yours! Of course, this should be mixed in with
and

 

Kimheng,

i havent seen any your video yet but i have a little piece of advice to shear here. When playing against leifei and u are afraid of his sabaki moves then u can use the abit more in close range.
Secondly, when Lei in his back turned stance (tiger stance) Aoi can use the + against his or use the YY stance to inashi both his and . Then u will ask what if he does the string? the answer is, again u can put in the double stop. even if u eat that it wont hurt anyway.
Last the low sweep, it's slow -so u can " see and guard" when u used to it.

Cheers /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

nin and GP,you're my saviours!

about the ++,it only sabakies side kick,isn't it?
my brother loves +,so sometimes when i try a ,,+, strings or cancels,he interrupts me with his damn low punch,so I don't really cancels elbows a lot.....
yet,He is often catched by my +~/,,+:/++.........so nice!

you're right,i underuse the sabaki ++,it can be helpul
but lei fei has goods surprising kicks too...
what a pity,the double stop(the only thing which can beat his stance +++?) needs to be done at close range.....
what can you recommand me againt a lei fei turtle,standing with his stance what parry elbow,low punch and punch?i hate this situation,if I try to approach,he hits me with his double kicks or if I try to attack with an elbow,his reverses it........... /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif