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Yes there is. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

Interesting, after seeing your post I went back and scanned through the movelists. I think the rule of thumb that non-knock down single attacks tend to be on advantage after normal hit is still valid...however, the interesting thing is that there are now so FEW of such moves, that it may not be a meaningful rule of thumb at all.

Take the elbow-type attack for instance. Only Akira, Pai, Wolf, Goh, and Kage have non-canned, single attack elbows. Kage and Goh are even on normal, but Kage has his JM and Goh has all those tricky sabakis. Akira, Pai, and Wolf are advantaged.

As for sidekicks...yep, they're even on normal hit.

 

Yeah, most characters do possess the standard 2-3 attacks that reslut in adv on normal hit (including Aoi!), and some chars elbow class attacks give adv also. As a former namco player that learned VF when 4 came to the arcades, I was mostly trying to convey how a large number of character's "key attacks" don't give advantage on normal hit. I also found this very strange coming from the Namco world at first, and while Aoi may be disadvantaged seemingly more than some other characters on normal hit, it's actually something that's quite common in VF. Especially compared to Namco games. You usually make a note of it if a move gives advantage on normal hit, because it's often not the case. Unlike in a game like SC or tekken perhaps, where you would make a note of it if a move was dis on hit and then probably never use that attack.

Kage's uber new + string.:

+ - dis.m
+ - dis.s
+ - dis.m

Jacky's feared elbow backfist.:

- dis.m
- dis.m

Lau's deadly elbow-palm.:

- dis.s

3 of the most useful and offensive attacking tools, all for so called top tier chars ( /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif) result in dis on normal hit. Some of the best attacks per character in VF result in dis on normal hit, that was the point I wanted to get across. Simply put, in VF Evo, dis on normal hit does not = shit, especially not for Aoi. It just means you have to apply disadvantaged flow charting in those situations, a part of normal gameplay for a lot of characters, and as everyone has pointed out repeatedly, the strongest part of Aoi's game .

 

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ice-9 said:
As for sidekicks...yep, they're even on normal hit.

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Goh being the exception with his sidekick : knocks down on normal hit.
Thank god he has that move ! /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Wolf's mid kick also knocksdown on hit, as does jeffreys.

 

Yes you're right, I forgot about the big guys.

 

After messing around with Akira's P+K for a while yesterday, I found out that P+K, SDE can MC 12 f punches, but the timing on this is waaay too hard for this to be practical.

The situation is the same as , hit(+2 on Akira) followed by SDE in an attempt of beating out 12 frame punches(mainly a low punch), but I found it harder to buffer a correct SDE after + gets blocked than , hit.

I assume that the SDE buffering window after + is very small compared to other +2 situations.

With this feature, the fact that it gives+10 on MC(throws will whiff), and the move's very short range makes the move fair and not hyperpowerful in the game. Too bad for Akira players. /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Cheers,

-Maddy-

 

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The situation is the same as , hit(+2 on Akira) followed by SDE in an attempt of beating out 12 frame punches(mainly a low punch), but I found it harder to buffer a correct SDE after + gets blocked than , hit.

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This is obvious from the fact that + has a much shorter recovery animation than . Which makes the window of inputting SDE that much shorter. It's almost like SDE after blocking a lp.... not very easy at all...

 

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Myke said:
AM2 weren't negligent with her design. It's what makes her unique. But hey, if that's not your style then you can always try another character.

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My point was only that people people acted very offended about the suggestion that any character is less good than another. I don't think Aoi is a bad character. In fact, she's my primary and I'm not too bad. I just think the way everyone reacted was over the top.

I happen to agree that she's a character that is better on paper than in practice. I don't feel like there's any character she's unfairly matched against or that she's underpowered. You have to have really good yomi to win with her since you have tools to deal with the disadvatage situation, but you tend to take more damage when you screw up than you deal when you do it right.

Also, my summary was primarly for the drama. And it was only SOME people. Not everyone was rude, but a lot were.

 

Dude, stop your freak whinning! We all know you're redirecting your lack of skills in using Aoi by saying she is less than average character in VF. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

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maddy said:

After messing around with Akira's P+K for a while yesterday, I found out that P+K, SDE can MC 12 f punches, but the timing on this is waaay too hard for this to be practical.

The situation is the same as , hit(+2 on Akira) followed by SDE in an attempt of beating out 12 frame punches(mainly a low punch), but I found it harder to buffer a correct SDE after + gets blocked than , hit.

I assume that the SDE buffering window after + is very small compared to other +2 situations.

With this feature, the fact that it gives+10 on MC(throws will whiff), and the move's very short range makes the move fair and not hyperpowerful in the game. Too bad for Akira players. /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif

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OK Jimmy, I've got a bit to say here...

First off, I think you're giving up a bit too soon on P+K into SDE. As you know I don't even play Akira, but I can do this...well...not consistently, but much more so than I can do the knee. Judging from this it's certainly in your power to be able to execute it consistently. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Just curious...does f+P+K produce the glitched punch? He has no move with that command, so it might work, and it would make the buffer much easier if it does. Try it.

I'm sure you could see how powerful this could be...free guessing game ON BLOCK. So learn that shit, foo! =D

And as for throws whiffing, well, here's a good guessing game off of MC P+K that takes this into account:

1. Yoho. IIRC this is uninterruptable by any strikes in this situation. Proceed with horrible bloody death. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

2. DELAYED throw. This is easy, and effective...just wait a tiny bit before throwing. Nobody can react to a 2- or 3-frame delay, unless they're watching your hands (in which case you do have a good point here).

And don't forget what WCM posted earlier about the catch throw...it too is uninterruptable by strikes here, so work that in every now and then.


By E8 time I'm expecting to get owned by this shit. Don't let me down Best Man Akira!

-Josh

 

Thanks for your input, my fellow. I will see you soon in Cleveland.

Keep up the good game. =)

-Maddy-

 

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Josh_the_FunkDOC said:

I'm sure you could see how powerful this could be...free guessing game ON BLOCK. So learn that shit, foo! =D

And as for throws whiffing, well, here's a good guessing game off of MC P+K that takes this into account:

1. Yoho. IIRC this is uninterruptable by any strikes in this situation. Proceed with horrible bloody death. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

2. DELAYED throw. This is easy, and effective...just wait a tiny bit before throwing. Nobody can react to a 2- or 3-frame delay, unless they're watching your hands (in which case you do have a good point here).

And don't forget what WCM posted earlier about the catch throw...it too is uninterruptable by strikes here, so work that in every now and then.

-Josh

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One more time...

P+K(block) > SDE will NOT interrupt any 12f LP
Meaning, P+K is not that good, pretty much a P with slightly better stats but no range, and no K followup...

You can P(MC) > Yoho too...plus P(MC) > throw will work instantly or you can delay if you like...
Meaning, +8f from P(MC) is enough for Akira, the +10f from P+K(MC) doesn't change the situation that much.

I don't know where WCMaxi got this from but it's bullshit...P+K(MC) > catch throw will NOT interupt anything.

 

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BMF said:
P+K(block) > SDE will NOT interrupt any 12f LP


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Yeah, it will. You just gotta get it more.

 

It's possible, but extremely difficult against immediate / .

+ -> works much better.