Beating Fuzzy

Hey guys, I'm having trouble adjusting to VF5's close range game. I've been using 3p+k and 3k as ways to beat fuzzy, but I'm still having trouble setting up throw. The slower exe is tough to get used to as well as most things being backdashed/fuzzied. What have people been using to close the gap and setup 0 frame throw?

I feel the mid/long range game to be pretty manageable, but the close range stuff is frustrating at the moment with a lot of attacks being safe and interrupted. I feel like the system wants you to poke -> om -> guess. Unless using a move that gives true nikatu I feel it's too much work to get advantage only to realize that you really have none at all.

Thoughts? Thanks.

 

Does crouchdashing to waste a few frames, then throwing, work to catch fuzzy on the way back up?

 

if opponent
fuzzy -> guard -------- delay throw
fuzzy -> poke --------- beat knuckle or elbow to avoid clash


As a person who fuzzys really heavy in VF4, making the switch to VF5 was actually tough to me. I would actually fuzzy a throw and see the arms above my head, and neutral stand right into it. What this means is that since the throw exe frames were slower, i would stand right into the late execution and get thrown, even though my techniques were correct in the VF4 system. How I adapted to this was by, commiting to the crouch position fractions of a second longer. How this works against me is that in lower negative frame situations, quick on frame elbows would beat fuzzy in VF5, because of the longer commitment to crouch.

An analogy would be how the frames for ARE changed in VF4:FT from VF4:evo, the system still works, but only in smaller frame situations.

So if you can actually Yomi a fuzzy in certain situations, immediate elbow, or delay throw (due to 0 frame) are probably your best options.

 

Don't forget about Jacky's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif.

Also Jerky, see if you can check out the replays of Sin#'s Jacky in the norcal replay post. He plays a mean Jacky.

 

Thanks guys. What I experience is mainly bad timing on my CD into throw. I guess it's just VF4 stuff that will eventually clear up on it's own once I get used to the system. Just played for the 1st time in vs yesterday! woo hoo! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

Well, in VF5 simple anti-fuzzy mixups seem less effective. Dash throw or CD throw has never really been reliable anyway, and K~G throw seems less effective than it was in VF4.

Best bet is to mix up everything, K~G throw, different max-and-matches of dash/cd g-cancel throw, along with OM guessing game into throw. Throw seems more of a 'guaranteed' attempt at failed high attacks or failed evades in VF5 when outside of a forced guessing game (which is pretty much all the time in VF5).

At least Jacky has 1p, that I think should be the main mixup with elbow flowcharts rather than throws, unless you get a stagger or enough frame adv that gives a forced guess.

 

I think you might be trying to fuzzy too much in the small disadvantages. Try Fuzzying at -5 and -6 where the timing is more strict (similar to before) and therefore easier to pull off repeatedly. From there on try to work on the loose timing of the -1..-4 range, which I admit is a bit of a gray zone atm for me too. Personally I have the advantage of playing Akira who has nice -5 (DE, f+P, P+K f+P) and -6 (sidekick, SgPm-SDE) situations I can often practise fuzzying into and of course K~G which helps me to delay my throws. I think at the -1..-5 range we should try fuzzying with d+G instead of CD because at least I find it easier to do the 'loose' fuzzying with. Not to mention d+G beats the punches that the CD-fuzzy is vulnerable for.

I agree with you that immediate fast mids or delayed throw are normally the best bets to beat fuzzy. Delayed throw especially at the tight end because opponent doesnt really have other choice but to stand into the throw if they want to block the mids. The fuzzy window is tight as is. If they realize youre delaying throws they might think of something else than fuzzy, like reverse nitaku with punches or something. The non-clashing RN attacks usually work best at the small disadvantages too (for instance, Akira can Reverse nitaku up to -4 with knee without clash).

 

I have a problem.

My opponent uses fuzzy A LOT. Now, I tried the whole, fast mid, delayed throw thing, and he manages to beat both of them.

When I through out the mid (Jacky's elbow) he rises in time to guard it, and when I wait and throw, he just stays crouched, as though he is actually reacting to the elbow in time to rising guard.

Is there anything I am doing wrong or anything different I should try?

 

Yeah, that's reaction fuzzy, which is much stronger in VF5 and will be a huge deciding factor in the quality of someone's defense now.

Like was mentioned, you can try OM -> slightly delayed P or throw mixup. You can also use Jacky's p4k with a very slight delay. And of course there's 1p. Also if you are feeling risky you can use the K followup to score a counter-hit, just pay attention to how they react after you do it.

My basic view of how VF5 offense/defense works now is you do your safe gay moves, keep attacking with more safe mixups when you get advantage, fuzzy when you are on defense, and make them want to use evade or other risky things to take advantage of you using safe moves and fuzzy so you can go for a throw or something more rewarding like a delayed beatknuckle.

 

And if we look at Kagay's moves list, what do we find but an ass load of half circular safe mid level moves?

Thanks for the advice though.

The main problem is when my opponent is rising; they seem to defend whatever it is that I decide to do, and I end up having to resort to a 180 frames delayed throw or a 60 frames delayed strike, or other such nonsense.

 

Be thankful you are Jacky, because /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is great at beating fuzzy.

 

I wasn't saying it in reference to Jacky, but in reference to the entire game. And by safe I mean moves -5~6 or less so that you can fuzzy if they are blocked.

That's the perfect time for the OM mixup.

 

Ah I see.

I'll try using /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif more often, along with an OM every now and then.

Thanks Ice, your help is always appreciated.

 

Don't mean to derail, but your avatar is just too elite. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif