Best anti-crouch options

I'm not talking about anti-fuzzy here because it's not the same thing, I'm talking about a situation where you suspect they will be crouching like after getting up from the ground.
What do people concider her best moves to be using in that situation?

 

OM P is good too!

 

I always thought 9K+G,K was her big non crouch move?

 

KG throw / sweep

 

Against crouch block?

 

She has many options in this case, my favorite mids to do in most situations like this unless the enemy has proven they can get around it is her side kick 3K, 9K+G, or 6P,K. As it was mentioned about crouching guards the 3K is my favorite because it staggers people that stay low and crouch as they get up and the fact that it is so safe on block as well makes it a great option as well. Once they expect the 3K all the time any throw will likely land since they will get up blocking high.

 

I personaly mix it up with 3K, 7K+G, 9K+GK and low throws where I use 9K+GK the most and low throws the least.

Low throws is very risky since if they don't crouch you're easy to punish for a lot of damage, a positive thing is that it's easy to get three throw breaks in your whiffed low throw animation so if they try to punish you with a throw you're likely to break it. Also for 2P+K+G you end up in a non favourable okizeme situation afterwards while for 6P+K+G you might as well have done 9K+GK confirmed to get the same damage.
46P+K+G might actually be her best option as a low throw for me but I haven't used it enough yet.

9K+GK is her strongest option but it's also her riskiest one if you fail to hitconfirm it since she's -20 on block, having 9K+G confirmed on block only leaves her at -5 so normal fuzzy is possible afterwards. However, even if you can confirm it 99% of the time, which I can't, it is still a highly punishable move on evade no matter if you do one or two kicks, doing a delayed second kick will get people trying to punish it after evade too quickly though.

7K+G is a 30dmg knockdown mid that is -13 on block, however if you do it at the right range they need to dash far enough that you're allowed to ETEG afterwards to avoid basic punishment options. Since it's fairly safe to throw out and has a good hitbox if they decided to do something it's a strong option that I resort to sometimes when I feel 9K+GK might be too risky.

3K is the option that has the least risk in all situations since it has the longest range and the fastest recovery, you won't have to concentrate much when using it either since it's -6 on block so you can just 33G fuzzy afterwards and it's got a P followup if you suspect you can get a counter hit with it for +5.
The followup P also makes it safer on evade since it's so delayable that it can track them if they try to punish 3K on evade with a move that doesn't go under highs.
I usualy go for this when they are low on health and I know a 3K + stagger setup is enough for me to take the round, I can also go for it if I don't have much health left myself so I want to play it safe.

 

You got good points there, Im just pointing out that if you predict a crouch block, a 0-frame lowthrow is an important tool. Especially since Pais combo damage on a crouching opponent is basically nonexistent. Depending on situation, remember that lowthrow also clashes with low punch for extra safety.

ps. OM P is a good option for staggers as well as sidekick.

 

Hey stop stealing my OM P suggestion Manji!

 

I would personally use her sidekick thanks for backing me up though on that point.

 

I only use OM P as a tech trap and it's nothing universal I throw out when I expect someone to be crouching, even though it's only -3 on block I feel it works a bit too randomly for me to be using it for anything else.

Manji:
2P+K+G does 45dmg with bad okizeme, -only- beats crouching defense, very punishable when failed.

9K+GK does 39dmg with good okizeme, fuzzyable on block, beats them if they press a button.

If both were equaly punishable I would still go for 9K+GK since it fills more areas than just someone who is crouching, sacrificing 6dmg for that and better okizeme for more damage potential is definitley worth it. There is just no reason to use her low throw if you expect them to be crouching for a longer time than if they fuzzy.
Low throw serves it's use as anti-fuzzy, and I try to keep it to that.

 

Its more than what she gets from any other move in same situation, if im not mistaken.

 

The 6 extra points of damage is not worth the risk.

 

What risk? you know that in theory if I predict your Pai will do a /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif in a nonguaranteed situation against my Akira you will eat 80+ points of guaranteed damage? 0 frame low throw is very useful. Thats all I am saying.

 

Things that beat Lowthrow: Everything except neutral crouch/guard crouch.
Things that lowthrow beat: neutral crouch/guard crouch.

Things that beat 9K+GK: Reversals, YY, certain sabakis, evade.
Things that 9K+GK beats: Low/mid/high attacks, high/low reversals, crouch guard/neutral crouch and throws, 9K+GK delayed beats evade into direct attack.

I think both you and me can clearly see the differnce in risk.

 

Dont forget block and fuzzy guard. And second hit is only -20 on block.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I think both you and me can clearly see the differnce in risk. </div></div>
*shrug*

 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you might as well have done 9K+GK confirmed to get the same damage. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">9K+GK is her strongest option but it's also her riskiest one if you fail to hitconfirm it since she's -20 on block </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">having 9K+G confirmed on block only leaves her at -5 </div></div>

By all means, make the assumption that I'm talking about the unconfirmed version on block, it's not as if I discussed it just a page back, or maybe -5 is just a tad too unsafe for you?

 

Its not as if you already discussed a problem with 9K+GK . . .

Why'd you start this thread if you already were set on your answer?

Speaking of your initial post, why is rising any different from fuzzy? You play people who just rise and hold down crouch without regard to what you are doing? If its worthwhile to low throw occasionally vs fuzzy, its worthwhile to low throw occasionally vs rising . . .

 

There's actually quite a lot of players online that do this, I think it's cause they are paranoid of eating a high throw and they somehow end up presuming holding down and guard for 5 minutes will make them safe.