Best move in VF?

""""My advice to you budding players is actually *not* to get too obsessed with movelists and stats. They are an excellent way of analyzing the game *after* you get a handle on the basics, but I must emphasize that they are by no means necessary to excelling at the game."""""

"""Some of the best players in the world don't know jack shit about stats, and they still kick ass."""

FINALLY~~~~~~~~~
Someone here has reinforced why I refuse to believe the knowledge of stats will help~!

I learn everything about the game to experience.
Experiences can tell me what move is counterable, what is not...what should n what shouldn't be done.

Stats dun mean ANYTHING to me~

I mean...so what if the move is a few frame rates slower or faster than another move?

The more important issue is finding a way to hit the guy with the move~!

If u play the game as if u're reading a textbook, opponents will read u like a textbook n kick ur skull easily!~

<font color=red>SummErs' 'enemy SPODED, enemy DOWN'

 

Yah...just ask Nelson - dude is amazing without having a huge breath of knoweldge on stats......

"Victory can be anticipated, but not assured" Sun-Tzu

 

Then again
I know someone who thinks he ain't that amazing/versus/images/icons/wink.gif

Diff ppl, differing views n opinions/versus/images/icons/wink.gif

<font color=red>SummErs' 'enemy SPODED, enemy DOWN'

 

why the fuck do you people bitch and moan so much when frames are brought up?

your attitude toward those that have an interest in knowing, or just curious is pathetic and worse than my general attitude towards idiot newbies.

re: akira's +7 - ALL moves save for a very select few leave you at a disadvantage. the key is how much. there's no holy grail, no magic number to be seen with it. it's only to show by how much he's at a disadvantage. it's only meant to be HELPFUL. it's all meant for comparision and reference - people say kage is fucked after a blocked eblow. that's +5. akira's is worse - get what you want from that. that is all. that is all it is meant to say. NOTHING ELSE.

and you did exactly what you're supposed to do with the numbers, jeff. you saw that he still has time for reversals and is just barely safe - you can do that w/o the numbers, but now you know by how much: 1 frame. not a whole lot, eh?

no one has ever stated or even IMPLIED that these numbers will make you a better player, that they are a replacement for good dexterity and plain common sense. fucking christ. just take the info for what it's worth and get on with your fucking game and leave those that do get helpful info the fuck alone. take your attitude and shove it.

i don't even know why myself and others fucking bother. i'm beginning to see a point to the "no one cares, i'll delete everything" view that someone i know holds, regarding his own efforts in vf. maybe i'll just fucking chuck the archive...judging by the fools and idiots on this board, it's mostly going to waste.

by the way, chan, 40 against taka is fucking wrong - it's range variable. does 20-40 depending on how close akira is to the opponent. duh.

 

My advice to you budding players is actually *not* to get too obsessed with movelists and stats. They are an excellent way of analyzing the game *after* you get a handle on the basics, but I must emphasize that they are by no means necessary to excelling at the game
I used to try different attacks and see what works and what doesn't, and why. For instance, when I started with Akira I'd use the DE a lot. I'd figure that the opponent would attack with a quick attack. In most cases I would reverse the punch or elbow. At the time I didn't look at frame rate stats, I did this based on feeling the opponent out and guessing correctly (and because it was a little easier than in VF2). But recently I have tried to look at frame rates, and it gives me a deeper understanding of the game. Since I have started paying attention to frame rates, I gotten a better understanding of execution and recovery times. It also helps me in knowing when to keep attacking or when to dodge. Would I have gotten an understanding anyway? Probably. But the info is there and it really does help me analyze the game after I've tried a few moves with different characters.


-GhostDog

 

"your attitude toward those that have an interest in knowing, or just curious is pathetic and worse than my general attitude towards idiot newbies"
What is your general attitude toward idiot newbies?
And what do you have in your archive?
Interested newbie

 

Thanks for the response Jeff.

There certainly is no holy grail to VF, one of the newbie lessons I relearn (and in the process seeing it make others cringe). Yeah, my fault for not clarifying that numbers aren't everything. But I thought it was an interesting thing to point out to beginners, newbies, and those that fit around my level in VF (as a reference, I feel Spotlite and I are at the same level in VF, but we only played for two and a half hours).

I'm a DE whore when I use Akira despite that knowledge. Hell, I overuse a move in which the numbers scare me a bit with Akira... low kick... (I swear Akira can be thrown if he's close enough to an opponent and it hits normally). But I use them consciously and aware, my experience just tells me that they're alright moves to use.

Anyways, I appreciate reading your response and Rich's. I was smoking crack on the damage (because I had my own doubts on it to begin with and originally omitted that mis-info, but ended up putting it in anyways... doesn't make up for that, my bad).

As Rich said and you implied, the numbers don't replace good dexterity and common sense, they don't make you a better player. Didn't purposefully imply that, but I can see where people derive that conclusion. I think that after one has experience though, if they have the interest to do so, that information can benefit them pretty well by affirming or denying little bits, but only in the scope they imply. They don't take into account every variable in the engine. Anyways, I did say DE was a good move in my last post and that the concern is more for players who would actually take advantage of that information, which is not a large pool in general around these parts. But on a side, it's a nice thing to know.

-Chanchai

 

Calm down Rich -- Myke summed up my perspective coming into this thread nicely. My point (and which you partially implied) is that there are very few moves that don't leave you at a disadvantage if blocked, especially moves with the kinds of other properties that the DE has. In terms of benefit-cost, Akira's DE (and Kage's elbow) are both very useful moves.

My implicit advice to newbie players is that you should not let the idea that having a DE blocked leaving Akira at a disadvantage prevent you from using the move.

I'm really replying mostly to this statement from Chanchai's post:
In concluding the stuff on Akira's ff+P Dashing Elbow, I find it to be an alright move, but it doesn't really benefit you against players that know how to handle it.

It's not just an alright move, it's a great move!! I sure wish Kage had a DE.

why the fuck do you people bitch and moan so much when frames are brought up?
This is the first time I can recall in recent memory that I ever responded to a "frames" topic.

Moreover, if you will recall, two years ago when we didn't know as much about the game I was incredibly addicted to analyzing stats as well. I practically had the whole GAMEST memorized.

 

myke, jeff...

i may have overreacted. still i just get the overall impression that most people don't seem to give a shit at all and sometimes outwardly bash the philosphy behind having and knowing these numbers, as well as so much of the other work that people have done in the way of learning and writing about the game.

 

Don't worry about it, it happens to me all the time. I would read something and interpret it in a specific way, but then when I reread that thing the next day it seems like it contained a wholly different meaning.

I can definitely relate to your appreciation for the frames stats in the game; like I mentioned, it's something that I myself delved deeply into.

 

"""It's not just an alright move, it's a great move!! I sure wish Kage had a DE. """

Now that u mentioned it, I wish he does have it too.

But then again..he has other pretty niffy moves...which makes him good enuff to kick ass anyway...

So ..thank god he doesn't haven't it~~~/versus/images/icons/wink.gif

<font color=red>SummErs' 'enemy SPODED, enemy DOWN'

 

Ah well...
Least I know u're not slagging me /versus/images/icons/wink.gif

U still have my address regarding the archives rite?

<font color=red>SummErs' 'enemy SPODED, enemy DOWN'

 

Yup and they also got their ass kicked by him or never really played him.

CrewNYC

 

whoa Andy
U lost me~!

This post was not directed at me right??

Oh wait...
Now that I've read it again.. U're referring to Kage right???


<font color=red>SummErs' 'enemy SPODED, enemy DOWN'<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by SummErs on 04/17/01 11:27 AM (server time).</FONT></P>

 

This post brings up a question I have been meaning to ask for a while now. What is the criteria by which VF greatness is judged? Is it overall style, maximizing oppertunites, win record against credible comp, mastery of a single character, overall understanding of the game, input ability, or just who your friends with? So would everyone share their opinions. I mean why is Jo Shun better than Ghetto-Shun or vice versa.

Under the surface of the most jaded cynic lies a dissappointed idealist- George Carlin

 

good question...


fuck spelling!

 

It is very obvious people here have different criteria for judging who is better - i accept that now.

For me personally (i guess most players in NYC), its overall winning ability: Streaks/# of wins - total decimation of opponents. Knowledge is great, but i know many that have knowledge, but can't apply it for shit during critical, in-game situations. I admire people that just have...that...umm....killer instinct. The killer instinct is something i'll always strive for. No flames please...

<font color=red>Jyunen hayaindayo!</font color=red>

<font color=white>adam</font color=white><font color=red>YUKI</font color=red>

 

I am in complete agreement with Lord Yuki in that winning against reputable compeitition is the only thing that greatness can be judged by because it is the only that can be backed up. I dont know about everybody but I started to play VF because I like to win I am overly compeitive in every thing I do and I heard that VF was a game that rewarded strategy and tactics more than freakish dexterity. I mean having a style all your own is important for the single reason that if they have not seen it before it will be hard to beat. Knowledge is also good but only for the reason that if you go up against someone who is your doppleganger in every aspect of the game but for the fact you have superior knowledge you will win. I think every thing I mentioned in the above post is a great weapon to have in your arsenal but those weapons are used for winning. Winning should be your ultimate goal if it is not why are you still playing after five years?

All opinions expressed in the preceding rant are not necasarily the opinions of VFDC or Ice-9 inc. or any of its affiliates

Under the surface of the most jaded cynic lies a dissappointed idealist- George Carlin
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Lonelyfighter on 04/17/01 02:17 PM (server time).</FONT></P>