Best Oki in VF5

VF's oki game, to me, is very different from other 3d fighters.

You can only hit the opponent with light or heavy grounded attacks (sometimes throws) and it doesn't feel all that dangerous not to tech after a combo or throw.
Also, each character in vf has such a good damage potential that I couldn't say who I find to have a better oki game.

Little things stand out: sarah 9k over low wakeup-kicks & beating mid wake-upkicks. akira/lau using their fast stun-on-block moves that give guaranteed combo's as string pressure options when an opp techs. But i wouldn't say their oki game is so much better than other characters.

What defines good oki in vf, and who are the best at it?

 

Characters with ground throws have an edge over characters who don't have any (vs. not techrolling).

Characters with low throws have an edge over characters who don't have any (vs. techrolling).

Characters with mid floaters that have lots of active frames have an edge over characters who don't have any (vs. rising attacks).

I'd say that's the basics, then it's a per character/situation basis as mentioned by the OP.

 

Can be pretty dangerous to not tech, in a lot of situations you can use floor scraping moves to hit your opponent. For Akira it's easy to get stuff like 1k> AS3 if your opponent likes to stay on the floor.

In FS his new 2k+gp string seems to lift the opponent fairly high when it floor scrapes, i've seen pretty decent combos from it.

As for when your opponent recovers, I think the mid/throw game still works well and that's something all characters can do. For opponents that like to abare when they recover sometimes it's better to go for quick moves like P or 2p.

I could post some of Akira's stronger oki options if you wanted, not too familiar with other characters.

 

One thing that stands out for me is Lions Touroumaifuku stance. You can bait a whiff with it and then punish accordingly as it'll take you just out of range of most chars rising kicks.

 

Noob question, but I never understood well the oki concept, could somebodye explain it to me ?

 

Sibarraz:
Oki = Okizeme = attacking opponent as they are rising up from the ground.

It is very advantageous to be standing and opponent on the ground. Since you can time your attack to the exact moment when the opponent who is rising from the ground is vulnerable again, you can use lots of different attacks in this situation. Nothing is guaranteed, but the mixup is very, very strong.


Options include:
- Crushing rising attack with a launcher/attack that does more damage than the rising kick (if moves hit at the same time, the move that does more damage wins). There is huge damage potential interrupting rising kicks.
- stepping away to make the rising attack whiff and then punish
- Expect that the opponent will rise with block or evade and go for a throw
etc

NGKrush:

 

There are so many factors to take into consideration in order to call out the `best.` Maybe I think this thread can instantly become more valuable to the community if we outline specific characters. I`ll choose FS Jeffry (because fuck VF5, lol)

In FS, Jeffry has lost some tools he once had (1K+G, Threat P+G, DM P+K, 9K, a damaging enough of a throw etc.) but gained quite a few attacks that I think are considerably better. I would not advise too much threat usage on oki (if not used in the form of +++ as a combo ender), his options are slower now, but are considerably more damaging now (i.e. 140ish[?! around that much] damage off of threat + near wall at the perfect angle). + is probably just as insane but more versatile, and + is the attack that can cover rising attacks and crouching. + can be crouch and lead to almost 100 damage with a wall.

Baiting rising and punishing whiffs are still possible with , (the range feels a tad shorter in FS though), etc.

Beating rising attacks is possible with any attack that does more than the rising attack, but generally, it is a safer bet to use something that has a longer attack window. + can lead to a free if it connects on the later frames of the attack, and + can lead to half-ring ring out/ wall pushes for just a little more than half-life. Throws like + put the opponent in the perfect place for these setups.

+ gives +3 on block and can lead to a wall splat or mach-breaker style combo (close to a wall but too far for a splat). + is Jeffry`s answer to attacks like Akira`s ++, and while more like a retarded cousin, is still a really good attack against those who can`t duck it on reaction. Frames on block, or you can used the three canned follow ups, or if near a wall you can get a mach-breaker combo.

Throw obviously beats guarding. And charge mind game can be scary against those who aren`t all that great with evading and checking stance while evading or evading to early and trying to counter attack before the attack comes out and then hitting them leading to a 100ish damage combo.

works well to get over rising low kicks, and get set up an off the ground attack, or more importantly a ground throw. + does a mere 30 damage (total of over 50 including ), or + for really good ring control, a ring out (i.e instant win) or potential for a wall combo.

There are lots of other setups, especially in regards to post throw, but I`m still messing around with that stuff.

 

@sebo, agree with your take on this subject. i wasn't really out to get a ranking list, just to see if I could get a better view on why one char is better than others in oki.
as a jeff player, i played a lot on knockdowns and keeping the pressure going. i found it hard to do so and lost a lot of matches because i really wanted to keep going and going at oki. hoping to learn and get this part of my game leveled-up.

 

Yep I find it hard to do reliably also, so I often just opt to step away from rising kick range.

 

I agree that back-dashing the rising kick is preferable to attempting an interrupt with a slow, powerful move. Goh's knee (in vanilla) comes to mind in this situation as you can try to counter hit your opponent's rising kick with it. The payoff is good but the timing is very difficult; you don't know exactly how they will time the rising kick and Goh's knee is a fairly slow move, that makes it tough.

It's really only worth it if you're desperate or have a huge life-lead. Taking risks in VF pays off if you predict your opponent's next move correctly, as long as you execute what you're trying to do properly of course. But it's more likely, in most situations, that you won't accurately predict their next move (VF characters don't lack attack options so it's not easy to guess right all the time; if you can, you'll be winning tournaments I imagine) and guessing wrong could open you up to a counter hit and possibly big damage. I think more often than not, it's better to try to punish in a safer way than fishing for counters with big slow moves.

 

Or, a basic thing to do is block that rising attack. If you can guess what they'll do after you block it, use that. If you expect abare, a launcher. Block? Throw. Yes, it depends on the opponent you're facing, but guess correctly, the opponent is back on the ground again allowing you start all over again.

 

The whole purpose of stepping out of the range is that guesswork/yomi is not required. Both mid or low rising kick will whiff and can be punished. At worst opponent rises without an attack and you have the basic guessing game in place.

Im not saying its the best method, but its the least risky one. If one wants to guess, you can also guess the correct rising attack and evade it, against the characters with semicircular/linear rising attacks. For example at least in vanilla Akiras rising attacks are extremely simple to evade.

 

Okay, I thought you were just joking earlier, but you really are an unimaginative and extremely lazy player. I mean, +, +, ++ and DM + are totally shitty moves and completely linear. Mids... pffft. Also, throws are escaped 100% of the time by all opponents too.

 

Digi digi ZOOM

Digi digi ZOOM

Digi digi ZOOM

 

<span style="text-decoration: line-through">Uh... I could have sworn the whole topic of the thread was attacking rising opponents (hence I misread your post as trying to be somewhat on that topic), as indicated from the first and subsequent posts, and not so much about posting one's idiosyncratic rising habits.

I thought you were being literal, in walking away/back dashing away from rising attacks.

Later posts seem to follow that same path in going against rising attacks.</span>