things I can remember, Wolf's knee is throw counterable but I seem to be able to d+p many throw attempts. dunno if my opponent is slow... Venessa, moves that leaves Venessa with initiative EVEN when blocked 1) b+P (DS) 2) p+k,p (DS) 3) d+k,p,p (DS/MS) 4) k,k,p,p (MS) note the first P hits mid so opponent cannot duck 5) d+p+K (DS) this move supposed gives Venessa LOTS of initiative when blocked. but very slow. MS stuff f+p,p,k. This first P gives you initiative when MC. second P do not gives you initiative even on MC. knee gives you inititative on normal hit. lightning elbow is supposedly VERY VERY GOOD. and can used to punish missed low moves too, although it is a high move. f,f+k+g can tsubusu low punch. what does tsubusu mean??? too lazy to check dictionary but it says used when you predict a low punch so probably can hit low p?? Lion's stuff: his dodge can dodge throws in the middle stages. His d_f+P is THROW COUNTERABLE!!!! and can dodge mid moves much better in eight stance.