Bodycheck

Back in the days of VF3 it was one of the most powerful moves of Akira. A deep MC Bodycheck could inflict up to 98 points of damafge.
What's the main use of bodycheck now in VF5?
The damage has been weakened very much, there are always more damaging options to end a combo, if blocked it leaves you wide open.
Apart from the GREAT set up posted in "adaptive Akira" thread (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif....) and the combo /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif,/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif,/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, which are the best situations to use this move?

 

Well, it is still 13 frames in speed (on par with his double palm now, which was slowed down 1 frame..) and a shoulder so I have occasionally used it in the beginning of round when opponent is repeatedly doing some BS move that evades or sabakis or otherwise beats my other starting moves. I can't really recommend this for everyone, cause like you said, Akira is wide open if its blocked.

Also, doing it after evading opponents move is good for the big damage combo, as the bodycheck apparently causes sidecrumple on normal hit. (sidehit /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif - /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif - /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif = about 79 on normal hit!). Also since its so fast, it has high chance of working after evading opponents move. Good job Gernburgs for finding this out. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Doing it after wallhits on the ground is however thing of the past Im afraid. Now its knee or Shoulder ram on those occasions.

 

So basically sidecrumple is the real essence of this move, right?

 

In regards to /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif...


I'm not sure but it seems like if they block the Body Check they get knocked back far enough that it's harder for them to counter. I'm thinking that, after blocking, they end up too far away to counter with a throw but I can't test it cause I don't have anyone to try it with. I don't think my girlfriend could figure out how to block, let alone counter me with a throw.

 

Gernburgs, is the training mode reliable for that? Do you think that if you set it to have "guard the attack and throw" it will work? Because I did try with "guard the attack and then punch" and I could always block it, exactly because they were knocked far away. Is the bodycheck more useful than we are used to think?

 

This thread has SERIOUSLY piqued my interest. Keep coming with the ideas guys! Perhaps the Japanese DON'T have it all figured out yet?

 

Technically that move isn't a shoulder class... there's actually a seperate "back" attack class for it. Far as I know only two attack exist in the entire class, this and Shun's combo ender where he kinda pokes you with his butt and then tiptoes away. Of course, I suppose it usually doesn't matter... the difference I can think of is that reversals with Aoi cause face down, head away knockdown on shoulder, but face down, head towards knockdown on a back.

Also about throw avoidance... remember throw range isn't standardized in this game. So, I doubt it knocks back enough to avoid all throws, but it might avoid some.

 

Now that you mention it..youre right, its 'back' class and Akiras evade attack is also back-class.. Well I guess it can still be used as an anti-sabaki move and only Aoi can reverse it.

 

Does the amount of "knocking back" also varies with the weight of the opponent?

 

I'm having a hard time telling what is going on with the distance people get knocked back.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif >/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif

This doesn't work every time I do it. Sometimes I have to dash forward a little and other times I don't. It often whiffs on Kage for me. I'm not sure how the physics in the game work. Obviously weight matters on juggles so I think it would make sense for it to matter on knock back distance too. It is "Virtua" Fighter after all right? That's how "real world" physics would work...

Plus... I've never had the above combo whiff on a Heavy Weight

 

I always assumed that if it misses, I just didn't enter the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif part early enough. It rarely misses for me but when it does it's always against Akira or Kage.

 

Interesting, I never thought of it as a timing issue.

 

It is timing, but not as tstated.. Myke explained it before. You can vary the distance you travel on the 466p+k by delaying the p+k. This is also for landing the 466p+k after 46 p+k+g. If you delay the p+k, you travel farther, and also deal more damage. You just have to know how long you can delay pressing the p+k before it gets registered outside of the move window.

 

Thanks DubC, that's something new for me. I tried delaying P+K a bit, and I think I got a hang of it. I also had the issue with the move whiffing on Kage and Akira (wonder why those two), but it works great now /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

I think it has to do with character hitboxes, some characters are just easier to hit (obvious with large characters). I think this makes lot of combos in VF5 more characterspecific than in earlier VF versions. Seems to be a VF5 feature.

 

Just so you know, if you let Akira slide due to the dash, the p+k will still register if you hit it later. I ALWAYS delay my body check to the spine by including like a few in. worth of dash. This guarantees that I'll hit on anyone...

It's not like the foe can recover before you do it if you buffer the directions soon enough.

 

Related to bodycheck, I just found out that you can bodycheck during Brad's slips to get a sidecrumble..... *evil laugh*
Im not sure about risks involved but looks very nasty way of blocking Brads slip starters and BCing for combo...

 

You can side crumble with the Body Check sometimes even after they BLOCK 46P+K+G. I've done it several times. I'm not sure if they were trying to sidestep or counter but they got crumbled regardless even after they blocked my 46P+K+G.

 

Opponents get pushed away when they block 46P+K+G. They do not get side-turned. You're -7. Your opponent would have to do something really slow that comes in AND exposes their side at this point for you to connect BC side-crumple at disadvantage.

 

That's correct. A blocked Side-Hammer Fist leaves you at -7 but the pushback allows some level of safety from most 'fast' retaliations like a 10 frame stationary jab or crouching punch.

I think if you've landed the side-hammer fist and it gets blocked, you're best shot to keep the attack going is to back crouch dash into single palm thrust or double palm if you're far enough away.