Bonus characters from the Shenmue series ?

Would it be a good or bad idea to have Ryo, Lan Di and other Shenmue characters as bonus characters in VF5?

 

That would be Fighters Megamix 2. Which will never, ever, ever happen.

 

No, not a whole bunch, maybe 3 or 4. Or atleast Ryo. Like Soulcalibur and its guest appearences. Just for fun.

 

Isn't 1 Akira enough? /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

Well, most of the shenmue characters are more or less modelled after VF chars.
Ryo is heavily influenced by Akira, but has since gained all kinds of moves from whoever he taught him moves.
The four streetfighters in SM2 are like Jeffry, Wolf, Sarah, and Lau respectively.
Lan Di would be the only one I wouldn't mind to see, even though he seems to have some Lau influences as well...

 

I'm still waiting for Bahn as secret character in the VF series. Damn, he's the coolest.


cheers,
kbcat

 

I see Sega and VF as a hobbyist building one of those old model war galleons in a glass jar (I know...most of those already come in the jar...bear with me). After months of hard work and care, they've built this awesome war ship. As time moves on, they carefully improve it, adding new canons and swinging doors on the side for the canons. To me, adding Shenmue characters is a move similar to adding modern weapons to the model of the ship. It's cool to think about it, but it wrecks the beauty of the masterpiece. Like someone already said, that's a fighters megamix idea.

I only say this because I always hear people (not here at vfdc) complaining that VF only has "15 characters after this long", and "blah blah blah". I don't hear people give them acclaim over what they've really done; emphasize quality over quantity. When you've got (arguably) the most balanced fighting game yet, with customizeable characters and record tracking abilities, why care about secret characters?

Not to bash anyone's ideas, but that's how I feel. But yeah, Shenmue characters were pretty tight. It's just that I'd rather let Sega create new characters just for the VF series, rather than porting over fighters from another game. Even as secret characters...I wouldn't really like to see it.

 

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I only say this because I always hear people (not here at vfdc) complaining that VF only has "15 characters after this long",

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I think 15 characters is PUSHING it, actually.

Too many characters makes for a not-fun, unbalanced mess of a game. Look at any of the recent Capcom fighters (MvC2, SFZ3, CvS2) to see this principle in action.

Can any GGXX players comment on if the rather high amount of characters (20+ with #reload out now) affects the game balance? I'm sure it does to SOME degree.

 

I don't, aside from Akira Pig issues, as long as sega keeps taking their times with the characters, they could have a roster of 25 really solid, well thought out characters.

 

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Zero-chan said:

I think 15 characters is PUSHING it, actually.

Too many characters makes for a not-fun, unbalanced mess of a game. Look at any of the recent Capcom fighters (MvC2, SFZ3, CvS2) to see this principle in action.


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Well there will be 17 in VF5 (18 if Taka returns /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif ), and I have full faith that Sega will make the game be as balanced as ever. The number of characters doesn't bother me because they are all quality characters; well designed, researched fighting style, and tweaked so that they each fit in and have no overpowered moves (everything so far in VF can be countered).

My problem comes when characters are either thrown in from other series or "pulled out of the designers ass". Classic examples of this are Gon and Dr. B of Tekken 3...pure crap characters thrown in as "extras", when I'd rather they not exist. And I'm skeptical about characters from other series because of Soul Calibur 2 and it's extras. I thought it was a cool idea at first, until I saw the clip of the Gamecube commercial with Link. Imo, Link stands out too much from the Soul Calibur bunch.

Anyway, this post is getting to0 long. I understand what you mean, but I really think that Sega is capable maintaining the balance despite a higher amount of characters. You just have to give them the time to do it. People wanting more characters can't expect them to add 4-6 new characters for the next installment and keep it balanced. Increments of 2 per installment (3 if they bring Taka back /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif ) seems just right, and if we ever see a VF6, fans of huge character selection will have their 20 characters, while "perfectionist" gurus such as myself will have our balanced game with well designed characters.

 

Taka will not be back in VF5. Sega is afraid of the power of Sumo! Even if they say it's because he's too fat to properly model currently. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

I figured that much. It's just that I've always been a huge fan of sumo wrestling. Each summer when I was a little kid, some tournament used to come on late at night. Since martial arts bouts and tournaments were hard to come by on basic cable, I watched those religiously. A friend and I would sometimes bet on the sumos over the phone /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Taka was the first sumo done right. No goofy flying headbutt $hit or stupid stuff (like the original Ganryu who was just a Jack whack-off), just real moves that I used to see in the sumo tourney. I know he's too big (that's what they say), but it's my secret desire that Sega's working on an Evo version C for the U.S home release. Since consoles are the big thing here and arcades are big in Japan, we would have the home version for that while Japan got the arcade, and few people would care.

Of course, these are just deep down wishes. And if adding Taka would upset the balance, then by all means leave him out. I'd rather be able to beat "top tier" characters with "bottom tier" characters than to have a character "just for fun".

But there must be some way to bring the big guy back to kick ass /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

That would be a bad idea. Making a character secret is like saying "this character isn't interesting or balanced enough to be a regular cast member". Adding characters from other games is just crapping out, though I think the way they added guy from final fight into the alpha series was pretty well done.

 

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afroconnexion said:

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Zero-chan said:

I think 15 characters is PUSHING it, actually.

Too many characters makes for a not-fun, unbalanced mess of a game. Look at any of the recent Capcom fighters (MvC2, SFZ3, CvS2) to see this principle in action.


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Well there will be 17 in VF5 (18 if Taka returns /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif ), and I have full faith that Sega will make the game be as balanced as ever. The number of characters doesn't bother me because they are all quality characters; well designed, researched fighting style, and tweaked so that they each fit in and have no overpowered moves (everything so far in VF can be countered).

My problem comes when characters are either thrown in from other series or "pulled out of the designers ass". Classic examples of this are Gon and Dr. B of Tekken 3...pure crap characters thrown in as "extras", when I'd rather they not exist. And I'm skeptical about characters from other series because of Soul Calibur 2 and it's extras. I thought it was a cool idea at first, until I saw the clip of the Gamecube commercial with Link. Imo, Link stands out too much from the Soul Calibur bunch.

Anyway, this post is getting to0 long. I understand what you mean, but I really think that Sega is capable maintaining the balance despite a higher amount of characters. You just have to give them the time to do it. People wanting more characters can't expect them to add 4-6 new characters for the next installment and keep it balanced. Increments of 2 per installment (3 if they bring Taka back /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif ) seems just right, and if we ever see a VF6, fans of huge character selection will have their 20 characters, while "perfectionist" gurus such as myself will have our balanced game with well designed characters.

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I also hope they bring Taka back, but I think the hardware isn't powerful enough to support a character his size moving that fast and at the same time, taking into consideration his body fat as a realistic gameplay factor.

Man, /versus/images/graemlins/mad.gif how can you compare Ryo and Lan di to Gon and Dr. B. If that was the case, I would've never made this thread. Unlike some of SCs guest appearences, the Shenmue characters fit very well in the VF universe. We're not talking about Sonic and Tails here guys.

On the balance issue, if you don't trust AM2 by now, then I don't know what you've been playing these last years. Who can you trust then ? Why do you think they make different versions of the game ? Why do they go around different arcades, getting feedback ?And since when does adding more characters automatically means unbalanced ? If that's the case, then lets stop adding them now before it's too late. I mean damn, where is that written ? The programmers are the ones who decide whether a game is balanced or not, not the number of characters.

Oh and if I'm not PLAYING a GAME "just for fun" then why the hell am I PLAYING it. Might as well not call it a GAME.

 

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CreeD said:

That would be a bad idea. Making a character secret is like saying "this character isn't interesting or balanced enough to be a regular cast member". Adding characters from other games is just crapping out, though I think the way they added guy from final fight into the alpha series was pretty well done.


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I don't believe so at all. Just because the character is not initially available does not mean that he/she is not as balanced/good as the rest of the characters. It all depends on how dedicated the programmers are.

 

True. Usually the secret characters are some of the best in the game, and not just because they're cheap. Basically the entire usable cast of MvC2 (which has about the same roster of relatively balanced characters as VF by the way, it just has way more horrible ones) has to be unlocked, which is annoying but says nothing about gameplay.

Adding characters from other games is good only for "dream match" games like TTT, VS series, etc. If they bring Taka back, they can bring Ryo in too and market it as not in storyline, like Fighters Megamix, no problem.

 

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Robyrt said:
If they bring Taka back, they can bring Ryo in too and market it as not in storyline, like Fighters Megamix, no problem.

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What the hell? Why do that if Taka returns? Taka was in Virtua Fighter to begin with. Taka and Ryo are on two seperate pages. Taka IS virtua fighter /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Okay...Taka WAS virtua fighter. It's not like he died or anything (TTT Bruce, Jun, Wang, etc), he can be brought back and put into the storyline again.

 

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Zero-chan said:

Can any GGXX players comment on if the rather high amount of characters (20+ with #reload out now) affects the game balance? I'm sure it does to SOME degree.

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GGXX is about as balanced as any other game. The balance isn't perfect but it'll do. Millia, Sol and Eddie(formerly Zato-One) are clearly above the rest with Slayer, and Axl not far behind and then everybody else.

VF still stands as the game with the most balance though, nothing compares really. I would think SF3 comes close.

But to stay on topic I wouldn't care what happens, I wouldn't mind Seeing Ryo and Lan Di in a VF game.

 

Just because the character is not initially available does not mean that he/she is not as balanced/good as the rest of the characters

If he/she was good, the designers wouldn't have to resort to a trick to generate interest and enthusiasm for that character (the trick being either to make him a seKriT hidden dude or make him instantly recognizable by poaching him from other game).

If game designers do actually make a good character and make him or her unlockable, that idea irritates me - I don't want my options to depend on slogging through some minigame or subquest to unlock them. I want to learn to play with or against the character as I learn the others. Time release isn't that bad, but being the cynic that I am it strikes me as a way to milk more money out of a game that people have started to lose interest in.

All of this is pretty much a moot point because in my experience the secret characters from other games are either

A: cataclysmically retarded (intentionally) and ruin the theme of the game just to add some comic relief (kangaroos, robots, etc)
B: gamebreakingly unbalanced or overpowered. (this is not from my experience, but I hear tekken people bitching about true ogre)
C: cheesy low budget pallete and/or head swaps of other characters (evil ryu, akuma)
D: A waste of time who wasn't given as much attention to detail or as many moves as a real character (all 2,496 fighters megamix hidden chars).

PS: I could take your opinion seriously except weren't you the guy who wanted more polar bears, insects, and flying couches on the character roster? /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif)

 

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CreeD said:

Just because the character is not initially available does not mean that he/she is not as balanced/good as the rest of the characters

If he/she was good, the designers wouldn't have to resort to a trick to generate interest and enthusiasm for that character (the trick being either to make him a seKriT hidden dude or make him instantly recognizable by poaching him from other game).

If game designers do actually make a good character and make him or her unlockable, that idea irritates me - I don't want my options to depend on slogging through some minigame or subquest to unlock them. I want to learn to play with or against the character as I learn the others. Time release isn't that bad, but being the cynic that I am it strikes me as a way to milk more money out of a game that people have started to lose interest in.

All of this is pretty much a moot point because in my experience the secret characters from other games are either

A: cataclysmically retarded (intentionally) and ruin the theme of the game just to add some comic relief (kangaroos, robots, etc)
B: gamebreakingly unbalanced or overpowered. (this is not from my experience, but I hear tekken people bitching about true ogre)
C: cheesy low budget pallete and/or head swaps of other characters (evil ryu, akuma)
D: A waste of time who wasn't given as much attention to detail or as many moves as a real character (all 2,496 fighters megamix hidden chars).

PS: I could take your opinion seriously except weren't you the guy who wanted more polar bears, insects, and flying couches on the character roster? /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif)


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The Shenmue characters are human and far from being retarded, cheesy pallette swaps. Based on AM2s track record, I strongly doubt balance being an issue. Unlike some of you I trust them 100 %. Also, Shenmue is one of Yu Suzukis masterpieces, far but I mean far from being low budget and it's characters were given as much if not more attention and detail to than VFs. I can't believe some of the comparisons /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif True Ogre, Gon, Dr. B., bears, kangaroos, monkeys, boats, cars... I understand if some of you don't like the game but damn, quit insulting it please. And how can a couple of characters turn the game into another fighters megamix ?