Books on Fighting Styles

I'm very interested in reading into the philosophy and history of different fighting styles such as Aikido and Ninjitsu (among others). I was wondering if you guys had any books you would recommend? They could be books about any fighting style.

If it also has some basic exercises, that would be great as well. Stuff that I could do at home to give me a feel for it.

 

If you have an interest in Bruce Lee's Jeet Kuno Do, you might try The Tao of Jeet Kuno Do

It seems to be a collection of short notes jotted down by Bruce Lee, which were later organised and published as a book. Quite a bit of philosophy, tactics, techniques, training and a lot of other stuff - except history.

I used to pick it up at the library and read it as an armchair warrior. I have a genetically weak physique and won't be able to do a paper-thin slice of the stuff described in it (except in my dreams).

 

Cool. Thanks. I'll definitely look into it.

 

For Kung Fu:
Dr. Jang Ying Ming (I think I spelled that right) has a TON of books out by himself and others that teach at his academy in Boston.

Jiu Jitsu: "Kid" Pelligro "THe Ultiamte Guard" is a great book.

I'll post some more later

 

Thanks!!

Definitely gonna check those out.

 

If you are interested in internal styles, try this book. It has a collection of interviews that are all very worthwhile to read.

Nei Jia Quan: Internal Martial Arts Teachers of Tai Ji Quan, Xing Yi Quan, and Ba Gua Zhang
Edited by Jess O'Brien

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1556435...9508650?ie=UTF8

 

shadowdean is a bit of a fool and a mma fanboy

Im not saying theres anything wrong with mma but hes a fanboy or seems to be who chooses his styles off of what he see's on the ufc. But i wont get into that.

I say that on the basis of two things.
One he thinks wing chun is a joke. He's totaly wrong he but is also correct. The fact is 99% of what the world THINKS is wing chun isnt proper wing chun/ving tsun at all.

The only guys who actualy know the system are these who stayed with ip man right until his death and most of them are dead and dont enjoy teaching because to many guys have "everything to teach" and nothing to learn.

Sorry if this seems like an attack on you shadowdean i dont mean it to be nor can i deny that it is otherwise but you insualted my style awhile back and i didnt care to say anything about it because there are countless idiots out there especialy on things like bullshido.

2nd you but kung fu into a single catagory last count was there are supposedly over 5000 differnt stlyes of kung fu in china how can anyone actualy know all of these yet know ANY of them well?

You said wing chun is a joke. Well that joke of a stlye has saved the lifes of my friends many times and it has worked for me also.

Also i am into boxing and wrestling so dont think im some mystic warrior guy who belieave in chi and all that bs. The fact is most styles of fighting are hard to find the real/best places to learn since most are either mcdojos or have not so special trainers.

This said i recomend this book http://shop.vtmuseum.org/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5&products_id=35

If you want to know ving tsun that is. And i would advise geting into ving tsun before geting into jeet kune do so that you can see where bruce lee was in his thinking while developing that style.

But jeet kune do as a "style" wont nessacarily work for you. Bruce could do things most people cant and jeet kune do was made to suit both his athletic ability and his body type. Therefore if you dont have it and are to big/tall such as jasion delusia you will not be able to do it effectivly.

But jasion dosent know jeet kune do princibles very well or at least not wing chun otherwise he would have capitalised on the MANY mistakes made by royce gracie on their fist encounter such as when he is caught off balance by his fist kick at the leg and when royce runs in for a take down WITH HIS HEAD DOWN!!! what the hell?

And if you have seen that video and have a brain you will clearly see how the gracie family are bullshit artists and they claim that royce was in complete control when its obvious that he has very little control until he applies a scissor choke with his legs.

For instance look at the point where royces brother says "at this point royce could easily apply a joke and finish the fight" cough "but he (ELECTED)) not to" cough cough bullshit alert cough!

If you look closely you will clearly see jasion has a good hold of royces wrist and is to strong for him so royce tries to free his arm by elbowing jasion in the back.

BJJ in my opinian is a very poor style and if you want to learn ground fighting IMO catch wrestling is far supirour or just grappling in general shiao jiao judo the chi na you learn in tajiquan is all helpful.

This dosent mean BJJ dosent work but dont beleave or the marketing bs OR the MMA shows.

Infact pretty much all the fighters in the early ufc were poor execpt for shamrock. But as soon as it starts geting serious the gracies run off how strange.

And only come back once they get ridiculed by sakuraba. Traditional styleist will never get invuled and never have been truly involved with mma competiion which is SPORT. And even in its early days people are to presumtuous to think that if a style loses to some other style then the winning style is supirior. All it realy means is that one fighter had an idea of what he was doing when the loser perhaps did not or simply lost to a better fighter NOT A STYLE.

There are so many people who seem to think that a boxer could not beat a bjj practitioner. To them i ask when was the last time royler gracie fought mike tysion or kostya tsyu or ANYONE who was actualy a good boxer?

Its all a load of hype and for their DISGUSTING arrogant BULLSHIT propaganda and TOTAL LACK of DISAPLINE i have NO respect for that style.

I may disagree with many maists on alot of things but i respect what they have to say. I do not respect liars.

 

Well, its a good thing I'm home and bored and you decided to post your drivel, so now I have something to do.

First of all, who the fuck are you? Do you know me, anything? MMA fanboy? You are aware I've spent about 15 years in the traditional martial arts, from Taekwondo, 2 styles of kung fu, Tai-chi yang long set, Shotokan karate, and Judo (though that is a modern TMA).

The very fact is this, most kung fu schools attempt to learn how to swim without getting their feet in the pool, as it where. The traditional TMA response is "but we use groin kicks and eye pokes." Great, so does every other 3rd grader. Do you honestly need to be taught the ninja nut sack pimp kick? If you can't figure that one out on your own, you need special ed, not martial arts.

Point 2 - the real crap baby. Honestly, did you read what you write? You basically take the premise that almost all of humanity has never been exposed to real wing chung/ving stun, soy sauce, etc. Did it ever cross your mind that these styles simply have outdated themselves by refusing to update to meet current conditions? Probably not but I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

Now on to some of my favorite quotes "
But jasion dosent know jeet kune do princibles very well or at least not wing chun otherwise he would have capitalised on the MANY mistakes made by royce gracie on their fist encounter such as when he is caught off balance by his fist kick at the leg and when royce runs in for a take down WITH HIS HEAD DOWN!!! what the hell?"

Who the fuck are you again to even say what Jason Delucia knows or does not know? Have you trained with him? You do know that Jason DeLucia was a student or Royce after Royce made him look like a retarded infant in his own Dojo.
You like to state all this theoretical bullshit, but eventually you have to test it. Now granted nobody back then knew how to fight on the ground - but that just proved the point of GJJ/BJJ - that all things being equal, it is easier to get someone to the ground than prevent being taken down, tripping, etc. Have you ever tried any of your stuff with even a remotely competent wrestler? Probably not.

As for the rest of your "quotes" well, cocain is a helluva drug my friend. Respect reality - train Jiu Jitsu.


There are so many people who seem to think that a boxer could not beat a bjj practitioner. To them i ask when was the last time royler gracie fought mike tysion or kostya tsyu or ANYONE who was actualy a good boxer?
Well, you didn't catch Pride a few days ago? Nisijma, a world level boxer whose almost all his wins come from K.O faught phil baroni. Guess what happened. Baroni took him to the ground and subbed him. Before that he faught Hideoko Yoshida. Guess what hapened? Yoshida Triangle Choked him. Boxing, again is a game, a brutal game, but a game. It is NOT fighting and should not be confused with being a complete fighting system. Fucking a, look at Chuck Liddell, the only reason he survives to fire off his big shots is because he wrestled at the college level and knows how to keep his balance when someone clinches or attempts to take him down and he knows how to get up quick once he is taken down.


Again my friend, respect reality - train Jiu Jitsu. Catch wrestling is a decent art and there are some successful practitioners, San Shou is decent but has no ground game. Its basically judo with strikes and no newaza.
Here is your cookie, go run along.



Now back to the original intent of this thread - I just got Guerilla Jiu Jitsu by Dave Camarillo. Excellent book on transitioning from throwing to submissions.

 

Hello shadowdean sorry if i was a bit hostile but i needed to vent /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

firstly to your point to my claim that the world hasnt seen real ving tsun oh and i did love the soy sauce commet very mature /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Simply my response is yes and also you make very good point and i will try my best to adress each of them.

Fistly your absolutly correct in that all styles should improove otherwise they wouldent be so good. However so many "experts" like to change styles to improove them when they actualy harm the style because they lack the theory behind it.

BTW yes i did know that about you dean i have read many many of your posts which is why i made this one since every time i play virtua fighter now i think of your comments and my lacking to respond.. Its destroyed my love of the game.

And i agree many traditional styles dont get wet as you say but you dont need to spar to learn techniques to defend yourself. You do have to spar to be a good fighter however.

(TMA response is "but we use groin kicks and eye pokes." Great, so does every other 3rd grader.)
Yep yep your exactly right only its not that simple kicking someones groin wont do much it might stun a guy for a seconde but the pain wont stop him.
Poking eyes wont do much but david peterson temporarily blinded an attacker because it was the most simple and effective thing to do at the time,so i think he would think a bit differntly about EYE GOUGING not POKING.

Destorying someones eyes can only help you in a fight. Dont give me all that bullshit about it being girly or a weak tactic because it works? how did royce beat kimo again? oh yeah thats right HAIR PULLING!

Thats what bjj guys like to slander as bitch shit sticking their chest out right? Yeah but royce resorted to that "bitch shit" oh and look HE WON

So dont go on with that weak argument futher more its not just low tactics its LETHAL tactics and it has nothing to do with dim mak crap either.

If you elbow a guy in the oesophagus five times in a row chances are he'll die of aspictiation and be knocked out be the shock to the vertabre at the back and yeah this is the throat not the neck im talking about. Things like that will and never have been used in either challange matches or sparing.


SO HOW DO YOU KNOW IT WORKS? you guys say

Well do you realy need to jump off a cliff to see if graity will kill you? That theoretical bullshit as you like to call it is a thing called science buddy.

Its what makes man powerful. mmm you know from my understanding of history didnt people attack einstein over his "theroy" of relativity?

Yet thanks to the science of that theory we have computers tv's atomic bombs!

to be precise the theory hasnt been proven correct yet and may never be but so far all things ADD UP so please enough with the slander ok.

(Who the fuck are you again to even say what Jason Delucia knows or does not know? Have you trained with him? You do know that Jason DeLucia was a student or Royce after Royce made him look like a retarded infant in his own Dojo.) No jasion was a retard to begin with i would expect that from an impressionable idiot that is if he wasnt HIRED to make the gracies look good. Yeah yeah jasion has been training in gung fu for years and hes a master yeah yeah you can say anything you like it dosent mean its true.

Where are the weapons of mass destruction we went to war for? what is that a lie? but gee all the evidence? FABRICATED you say? dont be so naive.

Im not saying i know jasion i dont. But i know what i saw and what i saw was poor fighting especialy in his second fight with royce.

That high kick that left him completly defensless go's against EVERYTHING in ving tsun AND jeet kune do.

(eventually you have to test it. Now granted nobody back then knew how to fight on the ground - but that just proved the point of GJJ/BJJ - that all things being equal, it is easier to get someone to the ground than prevent being taken down, tripping, etc. Have you ever tried any of your stuff with even a remotely competent wrestler? Probably not. ) Exactly yeah i have.

Also your wrong people did know how to fight on the ground the gracies certainly didnt invent ground fighting you americans just forgot thats all /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

As for it being easier to get someone on the ground that various on alot actuly but i'll agree for the most part. But you try take down a man significatnly heavier than you and and good on his feat and you'll see its not so easy.

Also its dangerous and actuly qite easy to aviode a take down ever see frank shamrocks takedown defense?

(As for the rest of your "quotes" well, cocain is a helluva drug my friend. Respect reality - train Jiu Jitsu.)
Jiu jitsu is not reality its sport just like boxing you seem to forget that.

(There are so many people who seem to think that a boxer could not beat a bjj practitioner. To them i ask when was the last time royler gracie fought mike tysion or kostya tsyu or ANYONE who was actualy a good boxer?
Well, you didn't catch Pride a few days ago? Nisijma, a world level boxer whose almost all his wins come from K.O faught phil baroni. Guess what happened. Baroni took him to the ground and subbed him. Before that he faught Hideoko Yoshida. Guess what hapened? Yoshida Triangle Choked him. Boxing, again is a game, a brutal game, but a game. It is NOT fighting and should not be confused with being a complete fighting system. Fucking a, look at Chuck Liddell, the only reason he survives to fire off his big shots is because he wrestled at the college level and knows how to keep his balance when someone clinches or attempts to take him down and he knows how to get up quick once he is taken down.)
Cough whatever ...

while i totaly agree the sport of boxing is lacking in techniques for reality it is however most certainly efective your just proving my point dude nisijima isnt tysion or even kostya and phil baroni isnt royler gracie

Also didnt genki beat the crap out of hicksion gracie with striking? didnt sakuraba humiliate royce with VERY poor striking? didnt frank shamrock knock out a gracie with a crosspunch? What about that japanese kid who humiliated royce and got a draw HES SMALLER THAN ME!

What about yamamotos flying knee knockout during a shoot? Dude i could go on and on both grappling and striking work but grappling is certainly not better equal perhaps but not more effective in anyway.

(Again my friend, respect reality - train Jiu Jitsu. Catch wrestling is a decent art and there are some successful practitioners, San Shou is decent but has no ground game. Its basically judo with strikes and no newaza.
Here is your cookie, go run along.)

Again love this

I think that pretty much adressed everything but as i said i couldent be bothered arguing not because i cant but because it will go on forever.

 

BTW wong shun leung was probably the best ving tsun practition i know of other than barry lee and david peterson and wong shun leung has a video called the science of infighting

ITS TERRIBLE wong shun leung never wanted the thing to be made,

How is this possible well money /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

he never wanted it to be made because from the begging he didnt want to show these arrogant forigners ving tsun so he fucked around.
He was sick and the people making the film were very rude to him.

Later though wong regretted this and although he requested that they stop the production on this video they went ahead and made it anyway.

This is just one example of WHY what the world thinks of ving tsun is actualy a joke. REAL ving tsun trains against resistance REAL ving tsun is trained as you would for a real fight REAL ving tsun is simple and direct.

I beleave that when something becaumes a mckoown/dojo it will only damage the image of the orignonal.

Im sure the origonal mcdonaldes had nice hamburgers. But i could never eat the shit the franchise makes.

 

Does someone please want to explain to me why if wing chun is so good all the fighters aren't learning it -- and instead completely dismiss it as nonsense? Have they all been brainwashed, or are you just a dumbass? I will take the latter, seeing as they know how to fight, and you do not.

With that said, the most insightful thing I've ever read about fighting in general comes from wikipedia:

"Tactics that are illegal in sport/competition remain only marginally useful when mounted from the back in a true life or death fight. (Biting usually offered as one such tactic.) It must be stressed that such tactics are usually ones of desperation. They are almost invariably strategies with a low percentage chance of success due to attempting to execute them from an extremely disadvantageous position. Also, the inherent difficulty in effective and safe training of sport/competition-illegal tactics strongly suggests safe training of escape fundamentals and minimizing reliance on desperation tactics can be paradoxically more effective even in life or death situations.

There is no science that is not common sense behind any martial art that works.

Again, if wing chun truly does work, it will eventually make its way into the MMA scene and people will utilize it, that is just the evolution of sport. Just as the other day someone was complaining that MMA is not a 'science' because people throw hay makers all the time. Well guess what? If haymakers truly don't work, they'll eventually get phased out by the people that don't throw them beating up those that do.

That's the evolution of sport, train your boxing, your wrestling, and your jiujitsu and you should be good. Throw some wing chun in there and your opportunity cost goes through the roof. Stick to the fundamentals.

 

For starters many mixed martial artist in pride AND k1 have a background in ving tsun.

Your the dumbarse mate by the mear fact you call me one. Pure arogantce so thank you very much for proving my point. Like i said everything to teach and nothing to learn.

You read wikipedia and have an mma libary and go to your mma mcdojo gym twice a mounth then call yourself an expert on all styles. I know your type well.

Also you have missed the point as always. Ving tsun would never and will never do well in mma because of the rules and the gloves.

The thing was designed by the gracies to be an enviroment in which groundfighting can thrive.

Only fools think ving tsun is crap. You see cansio lose in the ufc and hear about some other tools who dont know it and misrepresent it and now you know all about it.

Funny asbel cansio was a novice student aparently of moy yat lineage as i have recently heard and he didnt learn much either.
Then he gose off and embarresses himself ving tsun is an infighting striking style the tool dosent even throw a punch then benatau gets his underhooks beneath cansio and takes him to the ground. He could have avioded this if he had learned proper chi sao which includes learning a sensativity to your apponant so that you can STEP in the apropret direction.

He also could have pivited and tried to throw cansio of balance.

Then of course there is sprawling.

But dose he do any of this?

NO of course not he just stands there like and idiot.
From the moment he steped out onto the otcogon i knew how it was going to go.

He steped as you do to LEARN footwork NOT fight his hands were positioned so that it TELEGRAPHED his movments.

Once on the ground however comes cansios greatest moment benatu mounts him and proceds to punch him in the head. Cansio could easily counter punch him through the centerline THE MOST BASIC princible of ving tsun.

Dose he do this nope.
Instead he tries to protect himself unsucsessfuly with an xblock a movement in the sil lim tao from (the first form) thats ONLY purpouse is to define your center adjacent to a wall. As its inportant so that you do not learn in one side during the form ect.

Yet one and the billions of ways the style has been interpreted.

So of course he gets bashed and humiliates all who practice ving tsun.

Then renzo gracie makes the comment of how ground fighting is so supriour blah blah blah and look how he beat this MASTER of ving tsun which he WASNT.

Seriously how many times has your life been saved by your bullshit jiujitsu? how many?

Well ving tsun has saved the life of my friends where no other style would because NO OTHER STYLE is intesive in infighting.

Example a friend of my sifu who attended ving tsun about 3 times a week worked as a taci driver.
One day on a fare when he reached the destination the passenger pulls a knife and straight out attacks him no threats no demands just attacks him the drive dose something thats not the best idea and bong saus it.

The knife sliced right now his forearm but he was convinced it saved his life.
Muay thai would not help in this situation wreslting would not help in this situation and CERTAINLY not BJJ.

Why dont you learn about things rather than watch tv smart arse.

You tell me i cant fight. Letr me see you fight and sport dosent count are NOT the same thing at all.

I never see krav maga in mma bas rutten himself has a high opinian of that style for self defense. Its straight to the point teaches to strike people in the throat ect.

Funny how its not so dominant in mma why would that be OH YEAH its SPORT.

Oh and only people like you would actuly think haymakers are more powerful punches NOT ONLY are they STUPID but they are dangerous in nurmorous ways.

Most dangerous is the fact its a movment so over commited if you fuck up and you most likly will you will be DEFENSLESS wide open ARSEFUCKED

It dosent genrate more power it releys ONLY on momentum and NO power stuckture from the ground throws you off balance all your oponant needs to do is pull you in and your done,

Face it the striking is and always has been TERRIBLE in mma. Other than bas i havent seen a good striker and yeah i am calling chuck lindell a joke

 

Jesus dude, you can type as many pages as you want and its still not gunna make a great argument for whatever it really is your ranting on about.
Did I ever say that any those "dirty" techniques are girly? No. Stop putting words in my mouth. All I am saying is just because you may not practice them day in and day out does not mean that it just does not come instinctively.

Hard to take a heavy guy down? Yes. Hard for the heavy guy to take you down, nope - hence you STILL need to learn how to fight on the ground.
Sport Jiu JItsu is a sport - but based on proven (and continually tested) heirachy of position in combat. You are always working to submit the person after controlling them, usually from mount or back mount. Your basic TMA never, ever covers any of that. WIng Chung, Ving-tsun, etc all start and stop at one range and offer nothing out side of that. Thats fact.

Kid Yammamoto is also an Olympic calibur wrestler. He was confident doing that knee because he has ground skills if it failed and because the other guy was almost only a wrestler with little training on striking.

Do I really need to go on and on?

Oh, and BTW - are you saying that all these tma people can't fight if they all of a sudden can't pull on hair or poke the eyes?:
Honestly dude, listen to yourself.

 

Your still making that same argument. Anyone can do it ect ect.

So you condition your fingures to piece a mans eyes do you? it will break your fingures you know so will they be able to cause enough structural damage,?

Anyway its not about these "dirty" tactics its about things like fish hooks.

At the start of the ufc it would have been a great time to prove ving tsuns effectivness.

But then they rules changed.
Wing chun's in set positions huh? a set distance huh?
Wait didnt i just say it saved a guys life in the front seat of a car?

Hmm yes we train that senario all the time.
Theres no reason ving tsun cant adept to the ground. But i agree groundfighting is helpful but IMO BJJ is poor groundfighting.

Yes i know of yamamoto's olympic endever whats your point?
That was a knee a plain knee dont give me that confidence bullshit confidence has nothing to do with fighting his ground fighting ability had nothing to do with that knockout.

No im not saying TMA people cant fight they can and we have ever hear of the beimo in the 1960's in hong kong? no i didnt think so. Theres a video on my profile on youtube of a silly spar between a ving tsun practitioner and a mantis stylist have a look http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mYHjSzzDTA

so dont say we havent fought for real we have give it a rest.

Like i said ving tsun wouldent do well in the areana of mma for various reasion it will work well on the street i know this because IT HAS BEEN PROVEN.
Why would i recomend shit to people?

Mabey you should read about wong shun leung

 

*cough* brainwashed *cough*.

I'm sorry evil pai, do you honestly, honestly believe there is an instance where a wing chun practitioner (of unlimited experience) can beat a boxer with 6 months of training?

Also it's funny how you analyzed abel cancios fight in the UFC and listed wing chun techniques he coudl have used to defend himself.

Think about applying that to wrestling, where someone scores a double leg and then you go "oh man that guy should have sprawled!". Fighting is more than if--->then statements.

And this is where arts like wing chun and kung fu go wrong. They attempt to create an individual counter for every possible situation, and then go "with enough training you'll never fail because you'll be so fast at reacting!". How can anyone not smell the bullshit?

 

[ QUOTE ]
vanity said:

*cough* brainwashed *cough*.

I'm sorry evil pai, do you honestly, honestly believe there is an instance where a wing chun practitioner (of unlimited experience) can beat a boxer with 6 months of training?

Also it's funny how you analyzed abel cancios fight in the UFC and listed wing chun techniques he coudl have used to defend himself.

Think about applying that to wrestling, where someone scores a double leg and then you go "oh man that guy should have sprawled!". Fighting is more than if--->then statements.

And this is where arts like wing chun and kung fu go wrong. They attempt to create an individual counter for every possible situation, and then go "with enough training you'll never fail because you'll be so fast at reacting!". How can anyone not smell the bullshit?

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't that every form of martial art when you simplify it down to that level?

 

That little video you showed me more or less proved all of my points. thanks.

 

(*cough* brainwashed *cough*.)
No your brainwashed why dont you think for yourself.
I admit it would be hard when your surounded by your gracie jiujitsu brandnames EVERYWHERE you go.

(I'm sorry evil pai, do you honestly, honestly believe there is an instance where a wing chun practitioner (of unlimited experience) can beat a boxer with 6 months of training?)
I love how you continue to prove my points first i have been for a long time and still am a boxer wong shun leung was a boxer. He was a boxer since high school and he liked boxing he liked what was practical.

He did tajiquan before boxing but left after his sifu made some bullshit story to a friend about how he saw a sifu stop a car with his bare hands.

Dont get me wrong critisiem is a very good thing and you should certainly have it about ving tsun.

But your just being arogant. The UFC is not the universe. Beleave it or not alot of chinese do NOT want to teach to forigners because they are STILL racist it hasnt been abolised.

There is a ving tsun sifu i suspect very much of being racist and he is one of the oldest and most respected there is. But i wont name him besides its just suspition.

Again yes i am saying pretty much all ving tsun out there is total shit. You try compare any two schools of wing tsun leung tings little franchise that has about the same ethical standerd as BJJ.

Not two of their schools teach the same thing they look completly differnt. Leung tiing barly knew the first form then he geussed the rest slapped a TRADEMARK wing tsunTM and now makes millions off of people who are charged harendous amounts of money.

He is the worst but he is certainly not the only one.
REAL sifu's of ving tsun care about the style they have trained in it for countless hourse so they dont care for money or for fame infact if you prove serious about training and cant afford to pay they will let you train FOR FREE.

Thats why they dont go into the ufc hey dont want money but also.
Wong shun leung beat many practitioners of various styles in the 70's in beimo which was held in hong kong and taiwan. This included karate ALOT of kung fu styles(choy lay fut in particular) boxing wrestling judo and muay thai (however before wong shun leung set out on his "caree" and was still a relativly new student he lost a fight to a muay thai practitioner)
Back then the law was such that if you beat a "master/instructor" the school had to close he closed down HUNDREDS of schools. But he latter realised that what he was doing was wrong.

Because just because ving tsun can beat otherstyles dosent mean that those styles cant beat ving tsun cant teach you something valubale and dont work.

Think about it. At some place in time each style must have done something right otherwise people wouldent work to preserve it. So by making a name for ving tsunand you cant deny its the most prevalent style of kung fu today. (BUT THATS PARTLY BECAUSE OF GUYS LIKE LEUNG TING WITH THEIR BRILLIANT MARTETING.)

By making a name for the style he was destroying other styles.

When ip man first came to hong kong the style of ving tsun was a bit of a mess. Ip man had to flew his home due to the cultural revolution and he had lost everything and was very depressed. So he became an opium addict and when he started teaching it was very bad. Wong shun leung then challanged ip man WITH BOXING and ip man beat him so wong shun leung started learning. It was 8 mounths before wong started to challenge other stylists and from wong shun leungs understanding of internal kung fu AND his expriences on the street he help ip man restructure ving tsun,

Like wong shun leung said ving tsun wasnt crafted from heaven its not divine it not perfect and it can always be improved.

But nowdays you have all these ffools who dont realy understand how the system works and try to add say BJJ to it and roundhourse kicks and things.

You should crosstrain but not mish mash styles you'll just create a mess.

If your in a mount for example doing ving tsun chain punching is amoung the wrost things you could do because the power in ving tsuns punching comes from THE GROUND. Force from the ground transfered through your body structure. But when in a mounth you can generate that force and it would be BETTER to punch controting your waist and shoulders.

So um yeah i so think a ving tsun practitioner could beat a boxer OUTSIDE the ring.

You guys are contradicting yourself in your attempt to slander my style. You just recently made the point which is valid that boxing lacks techniques and it dose.

Ving tsun makes up for that and employees kicking aswell. ONLY kicks below the waist as its an INTERNAL STYLE.

Vanity you make a very good point that fighting isnt choreographed but we train intensly and cansio hardly through a punch and the one SINGLE punch he did through was from far to far and was overcommited as he LEANED into it.

Dont slander the style please you know as well as i do that your NOT supposed to do those things and we are ment to train 8 hours a day at least.

Cansio was a poor practitioner of ving tsun. It wasnt as simple as oh damm well it would have been better if he did this.

HE HAD AMPLE TIME AND MANY OPERTUNITYS and he used movments from the from that where not fighting techniques AS fighting techniqes so no its not the same thing at all.

(They attempt to create an individual counter for every possible situation, and then go "with enough training you'll never fail because you'll be so fast at reacting!". How can anyone not smell the bullshit? )
Please vanity go test your reaction speed against a practitioner of ANY style in ANY form of fighting you want that trains rigurously.

ARE YOU HONESTLY SAYING THAT IF SOMEONE PRACTITSES CONSTANTLY THAT THEIR REACTION TIME WONT IMPROOVE?


Oh and take note i never said ving tsun turns you into superman. And people make mistakes thats what the third from is for if you fuck up and it contradicts the theory of the other two forms in ving tsun.

Im just saying if you hardly train in whatever style then of course the outcome is going to be poor.
It dosent matter how good your teacher is unless you apply yourself.

Martial arts can NOT be tought and have to be LEARNED this requires effort and research and asking questions.


Like i said think for yourself.

 

(That little video you showed me more or less proved all of my points. thanks.)

REALY? because that SPARING look at least 10 times better than what i see in the ufc.

 

I see athletic individuals with rippling muscles and KO power in the UFC. I have never seen such in the chinese TMA.

And srider, interestingly enough i would say that it does ring true for ground grappling -- but in standup combat (which most TMA applies to) it's far more about strength/aggression/good timing than thinking "alright so if he goes for a cross i do this". TMA nuthuggers will watch a fight with a TMA practitioner, and then when the guy loses will say, "well he should have done this". Those people need to get in the ring and understand that when you take a shot to the jaw your world changes.