Brad info request.

Since I’ve decided to use Brad, in preparation for VF5 I’m accessing clips and FT frame data. Actually getting some hands on experience in the arcade isn’t an option for me right now and besides; I’d rather not have to adapt what I learnt from FT to VF5 when I can start from scratch.

To that end I’d be grateful for some seasoned insights and answers to the following questions:

1. What’s the use of Brad’s ? It’s slower than or by a frame (16 compared to the latter’s 15 frames of execution) and while they both have same amount of disadvantage on block (-14 frames). or has a caned follow up that’s safe on guard, guaranteed on counter and floats for an air combo.

The only advantage I see that it has over its counterpart is that it does 3 points more damage and is +1 frames on a counter while or is even. But that’s hardly anything. Am I missing something? Or is it a useless move?

2. Is there a valid situation where the entire + string can be implemented? I know that + can be used to punish blocked low attacks but outside that situation is there any application or advantage to using the + follow ups as well?

3. Is a true combo? Assuming it is; if the first hits on a counter will the same apply for the second?

4. Is ++ a true combo?

5. Finally; what sort of strategies can be applied to the use of ++, +?

 

1) It's basicly useless.
2) Watch Myke's rep
3) If true combo means the second is guaranteed if the first hits then yep. No second won't hit as a counter if first does, second hit is a floater on ch so... this is universal for vf, no second hit will be a MC (or give you the dmg of a MC) cause of the first being so (system wise). I like to test if my opponent understands the framesituation after I've done this (even). If they don't well I'm in heaven, even if they do you can do fun stuff from it as backdash>attack etc vs 2p's and generally be in control of the situation. 3pp doesn't give to bad damage.

4) No it isn't, second is never guaranteed. If you're lucky enough to get the first part on MC you should probably do something else with your +/- 0.

5) I have some setups using it from slipping etc. It feels pretty safe if you apply it at the furthest distance and boxstep / evade / eteg after it. It's fully circular so you can hit someone out that's stepping around with it as well.

It's guaranteed if someone techrolls on you in the face down position (will hit them in the back) and I use that as a oki setup at times. For instance doing SLP>66k>>6p+k+g

From here the opponent has either been a fool and techrolled, in which case i use the kick to hit them in the back (you can delay the input quite nicely) or are in a uncomfortable oki situation where I can float a delayed rising with 6p+k+g>pp or take a safer route and stagger a delayed rising with 6p+k+g>k (only -3 on guard) or simply do other mixups (throw, SL K, cancel with G and do 3pp and whatnot).

In oki you can also use it to force opponents not to ETEG when the rise if you time slips/ducking well.

You can use it as a RO tool.

Since it's fully circular you can use it against YY etc if you're in ducking.

Even though it shouldn't be safe on guard it actually is in vs imo if you hit from the furthest range. It has hella range... if you've just knocked down someone with ducking k+g you can dash and do 6p+k+g>k+g on them again etc.

I think you spin them with 6p+k+g>k+g in a way so that you can evade their mid risingattack aftewards etc. It's not ofc something that will happen often as ppl will TR all day but it's something to keep in the back of your head.

For silly fancy points you can 4p+k+g (out of range for a rising sweep) > 6 > k+g in the recovery of that sweep garanteed. No I don't know why anybody would want to do that either /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

/KiwE

 

rargh....
1) if all you use is down back K, any situation where a low K is viable (it will kill, guaranteed against wall situation though there are better options, a poke at some range), your opponent may start getting used to the specific animation of down back K, and down K may throw them off, but personally I don't really like Brad's Low K game outside of down back K on CH.

2) Between all of the P's, you can delay the next one for some time, or if your opponent makes it a habit of evading a specific one, you can use forward P to hit their after evade, punishment option. Also as Myke said, against the wall is a good way of using it. Also, you can think of down P+K as Jacky's lightning legs, on paper it's punishable, but few people react to you stopping the move well enough to punish with anything that is guaranteed anyhow.

3) Yes.

4) On CH, the K+G knocks them into the air so yes, it's a true combo on CH.

5) At max range, it's a great poke that is hellaciously hard to punish, it's also a good move because against ducking, people may want to EDTEG to beat your immediate knee / throw guessing game, so this will eat that for free, and give you some decent Oki after the fact. It's just a tool in the repetoire of ducking that Brad has, nothing more really.

 

Man I totally forgot standing k+g was a knockdown on MC, shows to say how long it's been. A good application of this would perhaps be against YY>evade against an Aoi?

Anyways; I would love for them to do something with 2k as it feels like one of those leftovermoves that nobody uses. Either they could make it into some sort of Steve 2kP the punch being garanteed and knockdown on MC, or they could make it into a hard legkick that crumbled or staggered on MC with new animation. +1 on MC is really shitty, not even Nitaku ;_;

/KiwE

 

Wow, thanks for the Last Shot wall combo info, Myke. It never applied to me that it could have merit during a wall stagger. And with the new wall stun animation in VF5 it could be even more useful. Also, your ++ tactic is very insightful!

Thanks for setting me straight on KiwE. My PS2 is on indefinite loan to my cousin so I can’t even experiment on Evo…Nonetheless thanks a lot.

I get what you’re saying about Brad’s being a surprise alternative, thebradSHow. But on paper it just seems redundant in comparison to the potential of or . Like KiwE I'd like a canned follow up after it; perhaps a high elbow that causes a head crumble in a similar fashion to one of Vanessa's techniques. Or a hit throw on counter where he performs a round kick () with the same leg and knocks the opponent away...

Also, thank you for clearing up the ++ question too.

All three of you seem to be in agreement that ++, + is a formidable poke and okizame tool with decent nitaku potential, I’ll try to remember that. However, is it feasible after Brad’s successful ++, + Hell Trap sabaki?

Another question: What sort of strategies could be applied to the use of Brad’s ++, + Rajadamnan Combination?

 

The ++ + sabaki floats, so you can just follow up with standard knee combos.

 

[ QUOTE ]
Also, you can think of down P+K as Jacky's lightning legs, on paper it's punishable, but few people react to you stopping the move well enough to punish with anything that is guaranteed anyhow.

[/ QUOTE ]

.... Oh well hell. You're just trying to blow my elite strat aren't you? TELL THE WHOLE WORLD WHY DON'T CHA /versus/images/graemlins/blush.gif

On a side note (I know it's a Brad thread sorry..) for those who still have trouble with this tricky series:

1st 3 are guaranteed to hit if the 1st connects on counter. The last 2 can be defended and this is where people freeze which then allows me to stop and continue again then hitting again in counter once they've reacted too late. The usual variation is 3 kicks because it's the only kick where he is relatively safe on hit. Yes on hit. Every other kick on hit allows 11f punchers free damage. If you guess correctly on when to punish (guarding) then god bless you. Each kick has horrendous recovery.

Knowledgeable players usually wait for 3 or less kicks, and base their guess on that. On a good day I can vary the speeds of each kick and totally ruin their day. (eventually landing the 5th K) This is why this move is so annoying near the end of a round.

Beginners eat this move like it's pizza and hamburgers. My advice is to backdash or eteg. Until you recognize this series its best not to try and interrupt.

People who know me have their fav follow ups after successfully defending lightning kicks. For example: Maddy is fast with Pk, and Adam takes the big guess with splash mountain (often with hilarious results, but he gets me /versus/images/graemlins/crazy.gif )

Honestly my advice in general to anyone is to do an evade attack. These are linear strikes, and Jacky will be hit out of them.

 

If thebradSHow sent you to your coffin, then you just nailed yourself in Jerky /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif Thanks for the advice, I'll be sure to remember it /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

And this is a great Brad thread. It really makes me want to pick him up again!

 

Sorry, you misunderstood me. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif What I mean't was after you successfully performed the ++, + sabaki, but didn't input the follow up that floats (Gazelle Upper), would it be possible to perform ++, + and hit the opponent without resistance like you can with (Kao Loy)?

 

[ QUOTE ]
Adio said:

Sorry, you misunderstood me. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif What I mean't was after you successfully performed the ++, + sabaki, but didn't input the follow up that floats (Gazelle Upper), would it be possible to perform ++, + and hit the opponent without resistance like you can with (Kao Loy)?

[/ QUOTE ]
If you enter the entire + command and the opponent doesn't low punch, the uppercut doesn't come out. It just looks like wolf's low punch cut, so you don't have to worry about that.

If you do decide to leave the punch out, I don't think +++ is guaranteed. There's no reason to use that if you can use anyway.

 

It's not so much a matter of what would be more effective in that situation, but rather; what would look stylish. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif If you're certain it wouldn't be guaranteed then thanks.

Does anyone know of any methods for applying ++, + consistently?

 

Thanks for replying Myke. Sorry, I didn't mean its execution but rather the use of ++, + in a flowchart. Due to its initial retreating nature I'm struggling to think of ways it could be applied in a match other than say; Brad ++’s into a corner, the opponent follows and then Brad comes out with +. Does that make sense?

Also, what sort of strategies could be used for (Step Change Knee), outside of a means to punish tech rollers after + (Body Knee Crush)? From observing the “Brad Dojo†it seems to consistently give better float combo potential than regardless of hit type yet, I’ve yet to see it in a video clip.

Sure, is faster than (17 frames to 24 frames respectively) but the latter does two points more dmg and it has less disadvantage on guard (-14 frames to -10 frames respectively), so why do I get the feeling it has a bad rep?

 

46k is crap as it can't be used in Nitaku, effectivly making it so that you'll never get this on MC, also has poor range and should have a secondary function imo. The low framespeed also leads to you getting MC'ed often when trying it, it being hard to apply in a fuzzy situation bla bla. In Evo 66k is only -12 on guard and I'll prob never play FT so will have to see the diss of it in VF5. 66k is much more superior in Evo then you care about being p-counterable. That being said, different uses for it then;

You can use it as RN.
You can punish failed evade with it (1 frame delay).
It's guaranteed sometimes (Lau ppp2k)
If you evade something really big you can use it (for instance Wolf SS or Sarah DC) in mC.
If you're feeling really lucky you can try for a 446k in certain situations (against strings and ppl who are agressive after whiffed 2p for instance if you do it in your adv etc).
It seems active (not sure) for quite some time (must have several hitframes due to the 46p+g thingy) so you can use it to crush risings, specially in turned positions like after 4p+g.
It's fancy and makes magic piglets get purple wings everytime it connects in wonderland.

/KiwE

 

Thanks KiwE; despite your proposed uses for you paint a pretty bleak picture of it. Here's hoping it's made more competitive or changed altogether in VF5. Since no one will dare input the command we'll have to wait for frame data. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

has some uses yea but it would be great if it had more application, at 24, it just doesn't have the usefulness that it would have even at say, 20 or so. I spent forever trying to apply the move well (ask Maddy, he will tell you) and it just didn't work well, /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif. Ah well, his however is infinitely useful so I say be happy for poor best and continue rim rocking. Oh, and Jerky, you know I love ya man /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif. Community to small for sekrats anyhow, ah well, BACK TO THE LAB!!!

 

Yeah 46k is like throw out randomly, hope it's a CH move. Maybe if it was -6 or something it'd be worth using.

 

I would love for it to be ducking during execution, kinda similar to Kage evo 3p, so that you could use it against highp / string or highk for instance as a custom sabaki type of thingy (him ducking and then doing knee). Otherwise atleast make it semicircular (other direction then 4p would be nice) adding to his arsenal with his midkick reversal. I'd almost think it was fair if it was only -3 on guard. It needs a secondary function or vastly changed stats - it's 2 similar to 66k and much worse =(

/KiwE

 

Sort of like his in comparison to or . Sarah had the same issue in VF4 with her + and ; the latter made the former redundant, yet over the course of the game's lifespan they became distinct and equally valid.

I just hope that Sega pays Brad the same sort of attention. He's received some interesting additions in VF5 but I'd rather they revamp what already exists so that it's competitive and valid.

Back on topic: Has anyone who's played FT Brad managed to fit ++, + into their gameplay? If so how?