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BRAD TESTING please help

Discussion in 'Brad' started by Mackfactor, Apr 16, 2011.

  1. Mackfactor

    Mackfactor Well-Known Member

    I was hoping ppl here could test something out for me, as i am at work. Or if i could get someone to test with me once i get off work late over mic (preferably someone from west coast im in vancouver, i need a 3 bar connect.. actually 2 would work as long as u buffer the attacks for me without delay)

    Anyways, I been watching some brad vids.
    more often than i thought i see
    6k GRD into duck P+K alot at high level play. which in my opinion 6K can be hitchecked, however maybe not hitchecked to the point where u can Counter hit see them get launched and go into "DUCKING" <for a stronger combo, you can 6k CH and not go into ducking but less damage combo> RIGHT after 6k HIT on Counter hit. So maybe 6K can be hitchecked, but to hitcheck 6K into ducking is maybe dangerous as you dont have much time to distinguish the float from CH and Natural HIT "non float".

    this is my analogy yet i havent tested as i am at work and either need someone to test, or someone can talk to me on mIC after work tonight ( i should be home 9-10ish PM in case someone cant test this ).

    if its been used like this. i would predict,

    -6K duck P+K obviously would beat 2p.
    -6K grd into SL P shouldnt beat high p, 14frame, however maybe without anticipation or at max distance it can work. i doubt this. however going into ducking will beat HIGHS
    -6k naturak HIT into SL P or SR P, i predict would beat your attacks. ( i need test help with this)
    < i think even at HIGH LEVEL this 6k, can be hitchecked to the point only to the extent of HIT or GRD not CH or NH, as u dont have that much time to distinguish the float from CH or maybe you do, but going into ducking on GRD is scary, so im assuming ppl just see NH or CH and do the following stance entry assuming it was a natural hit)
    -if this setup 6k GRD into DUCk is used more often than i expect, i predict ( which i need testing on for this)
    6k GRD, SL P may beat 16-17 frame moves and up. i think 17
    - i also wanna test option from 6k hit

    this all stemmed from 6K GRD into P+K sabaki from DUCK. and i wanted to know why they are doing this so often?

    1) maybe 6K is more of anticipation move than u can hitcheck?
    2) if you can hitcheck, i doubt u can from NH to CH on a constant basis and go to DUCKING RIGHT AFTER to do the stronger ducking COMBO instead of say 6K into NON STANCE ENTRY COMBOS
    3) 6k GRD DUCKING P+K i assume they are doing this because, maybe thinking ull "only" get hit by say a 14-16 fr move ( because 6k into SL P doesnt beat their 14FR). So sl R or SL P (prob just SL P)should beat i assume 16FR prob 17 and up moves. otherwise to me why are they going into this transition for, so often


    If anyone has connections anyone in JAPAN that is very high level play with brad in Japan if u can ask, what moves can be hitchecked into STANCE ENTRY and which is anticipation that would be great. also are they able to SEE CH OR NH in an actual tourney play. If anone has ties to them that would be awesome, I know a japanese PAI player who used to talk to itoshun, but she doesnt have contact anymore so i cant ask him. She mentioned MIXI and ask, but i duno what that is. I got 2 opinions so far from korea, ROCKETBLAZE u can play Brad online and the stuff im curious about is Anticipation. GT also mentioned its anticipation as well awhile ago if i recall on certain moves.
     
  2. Mackfactor

    Mackfactor Well-Known Member

    I found out that

    after long ducking PP GRD, SL P, will not beat high 10FRAME JAB.
    will beat 11FRAME. same with PHASE TURN, P.
    So, i tried, ducking.. it works. I think DUCK K would be the best bet after ducking the high (or into a 0frame throw, any other suggestions?), however, dont do the K right away as u will get hit by the 10 frame. Do the K after u see the 10frame whiff, so the input is a lil slow

    neways, if neone can go on mic and do further testing that would be great thanks. Its not sumthing i can test in dojo
     
  3. tonyfamilia

    tonyfamilia Well-Known Member

    Nice thread, Mack. I sent you a text on xbl. Just hit me up, I finally got a mic now so let's test some of this stuff out.

    It's cool that you're asking about 6K cuz I made a thread about it a couple of years ago. Sadly that thread got deleted along with some other ones. I don't remember what happened very well but VFDC went down and all of the recent posts made within those last few days before had been deleted.

    I was talking about how 6K was best used without stances. Personally I find it more difficult to hitcheck and use it that way. If I do decide to go into stance it's usually Ducking and it's usually a scenario where I have enough frames of advantage where I can avoid getting hit out of 6K by P/2P. Then once I committed I can hitcheck to see if 6K floated and once already in Ducking I will hit K and continue to float with P6PK.
    The reason I said it's best to use without stances is because you have more defensive options if 6K gets blocked.

    Doing 6K by itself and looking for CH float, normal hit or block puts Brad in a better situation than doing 6K -> stance. 6K CH without stance can still net Brad a nice combo and you can hitcheck better to see if it hit on NH or if it got blocked and react accordingly without the danger of going into stance at -8 or -2.

    Edit:
    6K NH into stance is a bad idea unless you know for sure that your opponent is going to 2P and then you can use Hell Trap but the timing on that would be tricky. I'm not 100% sure but I've been smacked out of Smash Hook from SL after 6K NH and that's Brad's fastest move out of stance.
     
  4. Mackfactor

    Mackfactor Well-Known Member

    ok, ill be on in a lil while, i PM'd u, hope ur on by then. Appreciate bro. Ya, im also thinking the same view on 6K and not going into stance entry, but i wonder why ppl do it so often..and the thing is, i notice it alot on grd. im trying to figure their logic behind it.

    going back to -PP cannot beat anything on block.

    -6P cannot beating on block

    -KP GRD, SR P beats elbow

    -4K and 4K+G K= SR P beats elbow
    -4P=NONE
    -4PK= SL P beats elbow
    -66P+K,P= SL P beats elbow.
    -SWAY BACK P= SR p beats elbow
    -SWAY BACK P+K,p= SR p beats elbow
    -6k GRD=nothing
    ***-PHASE TURN P= SR P beats elbow. SL p beats high jab (not 10frame)
    -Phase turn P+K= SL p beats elbow
    ***-long ducking PP= SR P beats elbow/ SL P vs jab (not 10frame)

    i wanna test all this now on HIT. See if SR,P and SR K, also wanna test, DUCK K and PP work vs 2p/14fr mid. and back to my original post, whether 6k SL P beats a 16 frame or 17 fr move (gohs 3k and 6k would do the trick for that one )
     
  5. Mackfactor

    Mackfactor Well-Known Member

    DRFAM or LIBERTINE...

    wanna test this with me soon?
     
  6. tonyfamilia

    tonyfamilia Well-Known Member

    Sure man, hit me up with a time this weekend, I'm saving money so I'll be able to do it this weekend.
     
  7. Libertine

    Libertine Well-Known Member Content Manager Brad Silver Supporter Content Coordinator

    My second post in the thread below has some testing results for moves allowing stance entry. I think they're on guard only, with a link to a previous poster's results for some moves on hit.

    http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/254514#Post254514

    However, I neglected to test [6][K] on guard. Here are my results from my most recent testing.

    Slipping Left/Right [P][+][K] will duck under any jab attempt, but it won't be a counter hit meaning that you won't be able to combo with Slipping Left/Right [P][+][K][P].

    Ducking [P][+][K] will catch a low punch.

    Nothing will beat an elbow except for Phasing Turn towards the opponent's back. Tested against Eileen only.

    As for hitchecking off [6][K], it isn't possible unless you notice the opponent's state before it lands. It's the same way you hitcheck moves like Jacky's [1][P][K]. It's possible to enter into Ducking and react with either [G] or Ducking [K] though. You might want to consider not entering into any stance at all after [6][K], and in fact it's the best thing to do in terms of combos against Heavyweights.

    And I tested Long Ducking [P][P]. The first two hits jail on guard, while the third punch can be crouched under. I had already posted my results in the thread linked above for Slipping and Ducking options, but I hadn't posted anything for Sway Back or Phasing Turn.

    Long Ducking [P][P] -> Sway Back

    It won't avoid an elbow, not even Sway Back [4][P][+][K].

    It will avoid a jab, but only from the Open Foot Position. Counter with Sway Back [P] or Sway Back [P][+][K][P][K][K]. Only the first two hits will combo, and you do not need to end with [3][K] for the full sequence to come out, even though the command list states that you do.

    It will avoid low punches, but Sway Back is so slow that Sway Back [K] will not land on a counter hit. Against a wall, both Sway Back [K] and Sway Back [K][+][G] will hit on recovery causing a wall stagger, however.

    Long Ducking [P][P] -> Phasing Turn

    It will avoid a jab from either foot position.

    It won't avoid an elbow unless Phasing Turn is executed towards the opponent's back.

    It will never avoid a low punch.

    All my results came from testing solely on Eileen.
     
  8. Mackfactor

    Mackfactor Well-Known Member

  9. Mackfactor

    Mackfactor Well-Known Member

    I talked to a brad player on regards to hit stance entry.

    duck K is first priority. safest. huge ch dmg. Even if they evade very safe. ability to sabaki from duck vs 2p
    Duck PP even on NH is hitcheckable. SR P and K are good options but if they evade its very punishable

    regarding PT, not many ppl use it after 6p.. once in awhile.most commonly if used at all after PP
     
  10. Dennis0201

    Dennis0201 Well-Known Member

    Duck K is -3 on block and evasive from standing punch, so probably the best option.

    There is one thing I don't understand, which is Brad's SL P+K. Does it have any evasive property against standing punch? I setup dojo and found that SL P+K can sometimes avoid opponent's regular P, but sometimes it can't. Is it the conclusion that you can interrupt Brad's stance guarantee ONLY with 2P, but you have to deal with his sabaki as well?? Am I right??
     
  11. Mackfactor

    Mackfactor Well-Known Member

    I havent tried it yet, but i know for DUCK K, you have to kinda delay it to duck the P, or if you do DUCK K early, P will hit you. pretty much after U see he has whiffed/missed the P i think u do the K ( but if i delay maybe i get hit by 14fr? probably not ).

    I think that is the same with SL P+K. SL P+K and SR P+K are the same, ( thats the only move that is same from both SL and SR ), but they both turn into SL after u do, thats why you can do SL P after you SL/SR P+K =both turn into SL. I think maybe if u do SL or SR P+K after you watch them whiff/miss the P u should be able to hit them (maybe to slow), but im pretty sure that it will not result in Counter hit, just regular Natural hit, then SL P is not guaranteed ( only CH ). But maybe high moves that are slower to RECOVER and slower to execute, is my guess.


    ya 2p is jacky/brad's weakness. so good brads use 2p alot more than elbow i notice
     

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