Brad's good points

There's been plenty said about Brad's weakness's but now lets focus at the good things he can do while also explaining things for newcomers who may have been put off.

(on hit) , will beat out any attack from the opponent and knock em down. From here you can go for sway (to leading leg) hunting middle kick which gives you good advantage on block (to force a mixup) tracks in 1 direction and in this situation is uninteruptable. If you stagger with + you can also use the forward sway here for more mixup options such as delayed (combo's if they interupt inbetween) or use a throw after or before the first . on hit as with all chracters can be followed with throw as well.

Brad's most important throw is + for it's followups. After this if you input pause slightly then do + you can back stagger the opponent if they TR to the side or hit them on the bounce if they don't TR (same timing). If they TR in place you can mix up the knee with throw but the timing is little different. Forward sway also gives you good options here.

Brad has 2 fast combo starters that are quite safe on block (+ and on CH). You can do 60+ damage combos with on CH without inputing the risky duck suggested in the training mode (such as ,,) making the move safer to throw out. + is high but leads to good wakeup options (from closed foot, , sway to rear leg then to front leg and use the kick to gain advantage either way).

+ series is very useful against duckers as it staggers and can then lead to a guaranteed combo. The risk can be minimised with the followup mid 's.

+, can be very useful since it has long range and is mid, mid.

Back sway can be helpful at times especially when combined with other movements such as to bait an attack or to push you back further.

I think Brad's wakeup game is quite strong. From a number of knockdown situations he can use forward sway which gives his access to a full spinning mid, a mid, mid delayable combo and throw. Front leg sway also allows him to use the the hunting middle kick which on hit allows let's you use neck catch throw and on block lets you force a mixup.

 

This seems to be taken directly from Tatics Advice for Brad in-game....

 

This seems to be taken directly from Tatics Advice for Brad in-game....

Your point being ? *rolls eyes*

And even if it was taken from the tactics advice who cares ? I'm pretty sure there's a whole bunch of people who've never even played Brad and probably didn't bother completing his tactics advice. A thread like this might convert them and/or teach them stuff they didn't know on how to play against him. If you have some Brad non-tactics advice strats, setups... please enlight everybody and share the knowledge if not then bounce !

 

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SenoB said:

This seems to be taken directly from Tatics Advice for Brad in-game....

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No. There are only a couple of things most it I've worked out myself or seen in matches. Look at his tactics and advice first and then see the differences here. Tactics and advice for instance doesn't really cover what I think are his excellent wakeup options. A spinning middle kick (which Brad has from ducking) is very handy at these times for those that try to evade and immediately attack to break a mid/throw mixup or ETE when they TR. A full track mid can discourage this and also knock em down if they duck in aticipation of a throw. Of course you're at heavy disadvantage if they stand up and block so there's a pro and con to everything. I don't remember these kinda things being mentioned in practice.

 

Why start a new thread instead of complimenting / saying feedback in the threads already done like this one or even this one m8?
(Specially since things mentioned has been up in those?)

 

The 1st one mainly deals with why Brad is weak rather than what he has that's good (although there is very good info in there as well) and the 2nd is about how he should be upgraded. There might be some overlap but Im trying to put all the positive info on Brad in 1 convenient place.

 

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The 1st one mainly deals with why Brad is weak rather than what he has that's good

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Does it? The very first post of the thread starts by listing "advantages" he has does it not? No, I can't agree with you there and I think a second listing like this, of very basic points aswell, is rather pointless (or not in coordinance of how the site was intended). If a thread gets a new post - it gets up to the surface again - that's kinda the point. I think it's better to compliment a thread already made then to repeat the points all over again (it's not as if Brad documents gets made alot and everyone clicking on his nick or using the search would find the two I linked to quite easily right)

Good luck on the thread anyways. *thumbs up*

 

What those threads and the "online 3d fighter" one show is that you love to argue /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Yeah your right, alot of advantages and analysis are listed there but I've tried frame this info in a way the beginner might find easier to understand, like showing the timing or command method behind something. It might be easier for a beginner to start there Brad game around something like that.

 

Hah - yeah, I guess I love to argue . Touché man /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif
But seriously,I wouldn't have minded a big thread of Brad discussion as those two actually got pretty deepgoing and I think everybody got something out of reading and posting there. I'll shut up on the whine of previous threads now though.

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+ series is very useful against duckers as it staggers and can then lead to a guaranteed combo. The risk can be minimised with the followup mid 's.

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I'd like to object about just one thing being said so far: I wouldn't say that doing multiple punches as damage control before the longshot if the first was blocked perhaps is such a good option... Def not a character strenght but hey - whatever floats your boat.

Besides that, as I've said before; I'm a strong believer of doing (hit)() when the low punch hits over the (hit) flowchart (and even using () when the standing MC hits instead of the likes of aswell recently to be much less counterable if blocked)... /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Using an elbow after your has hit to win over the opponents back is quite basic knowledge for anyone who understand the VF system of frames. The knee is perhaps not as obvious. The knee's payoff is much better (it will be a CH against anyone trying anything back), for example a (CH)>()> combo against Pai (learn max combos for every situation but this one isn't even stance dependent) is 69 points of sweet damage and you are free to evade / block / whatever if your part didn't hit as it's also non counterable which you already mentioned.

Anyways, will be watching the thread and hope that others contribute to it (where's crazy conk?) the way you have.

 

I tend to use alot to setup throws, it's pretty quick and safe and beats lp. Once you condition your opponent to stand and not abuse lp you can then go for the ducking or slipping mixups or simply throw them. Occassionaly, I'll finish with the canned knee but it's a risk that isn't worth taking imo but you can delay it so I guess it isn't that bad.

ducking/slipping mixups is also good but if your opponent catches on and tries to lp you out of ducking then you can either delay the knee or do a quick followed by or + to quickly regain momentum. Next to a wall if you backdash after , the lp will hit you so be careful. I wish it was possible to do the same after but oh well, don't want to start complaining.

From long range, if your gets blocked, using a ++ (or backdash) to ducking/slipping mixup is good imo. In close range, you can back dash but you can also get thrown so watch out.

I like using + after a quick . You can mix that up with his throws after CD.

 

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ducking/slipping mixups is also good but if your opponent catches on and tries to lp you out of ducking then you can either delay the knee or do a quick ...

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The beuty behind is that the second hit is mid (and even delayable), making it so that the person you're doing it against fears of ducking (and ) after the part.

Try mixing up with + (You have to gaurdcancel or it will become a ducking). I love doing this in VS. Also, try to get into the habit of delaying the part if you want it to become counterhits and getting the catch (as it done instantly almost never will).

 

the best part of + i find is that you can slip/duck after the , or after the . they will not be able to LP counter one if they expect the other, and if i'm not mistaken, + (slip left) beats low punch.

 

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...and if i'm not mistaken, + (slip left) beats low punch.

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Been reading the Brad Dojo and came her to impress eh? Well, + (slip left) does not beat low punch unless you get a hit going in - and that's what matters imo (it's no newsflash that you can go into slips/ducks from hits safely). /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

, can be interupted unless the CH's though right, although you would expect most sucessfull 's to be CH's. Anyhow I would think that Brad's elbow options in general are better than most since he can take the guranteed knockdown on stagger (like Jacky) or go for safe forward sway options on (any?) hit.

Do you think his hunting middle kick is abusable from the right range, a bit like Vanessa's full circular mid kick? Used at the edge of it's range it seems uncounterable due to the push back.

 

Uhm, how do you hit someone with on normal hit???

Well, I'm the spokesman of the year for Brads Knee, if you want to do an elbow sure that's fine ffs - everybody has their own style. But let me argue:
Say you hit someone with the elbow going in after on CH then what? I have them airborn with garanteed great damage (and hella damage if I can get them up against the wall) with my knee - what do you have? Nothing if you don't do the canned which is much less damage. I'm not saying that the elbow is worse then the knee (they're not even the same speed and the elbow has much better range etc) but in this specific situation discussed I feel it is. Just try it out for a while and you'll be suprised at the damage you'll get out of doing it after lowpunch hits in no time.

What do you mean with the hunting middlekick (slip right ) being abuseable from the right range? It's + on block so it already is uncounterable? /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I think you mean ducking middle spinkick? No I don't feel it's abuseable cause if they are right at the very tip of you feet which I feel you're trying to describe they could always just dash back and gaurd aswell. And the move is heavily counterable (up to elbow) - pushing back abit has little to do with it (most moves in vf have greater range then they seem). You can however do it quite safe against a techroller as it will shave of a few frames on it's counterability if you do it right. That means you would be able to evade an incoming attack against you and be out of throwrange aswell. In this situation it's a great tool.

 

Oh my. This thread is just made for me because the only character I truly use is Brad Burns. I play against Izha and improve my techniques. I don't know what to say you guys because I don't know what you want to know.
I've made a little serie for + throw. Follow it by ducking and press . If your opponent thinks you will throw then will cause a stagger (your opponent is crouching) and you've a good advantage to do something very tricky.
For example, do quickly after has hit and then throw.

 

I don't quite understand this, the ducking won't hit my opponent when he stays on the ground, if he quickrises (done immideatly) or if he TR's. Sure, you could do +>>++> on a QR'er and you could get the stagger and it looks cool but why ever take this over the default on someone QR'ing man? I could just aswell do the + against a QR aswell (and get the stagger if they don't block during their rising) and be more 'safe' against if he decides on another option as I'm not TC in this situation after doing the + on the QR'er (will not be able to threathen with a >Throw if it connects though but still).

Btw Oni, thanks for the tip about doing after the but if you put the comp to gaurd all and counter with the will always hit (even heavies) you while dashing backwards - not just against a wall?

Some nice things to try from the ducking against someone crouching (getting you the stagger) is;

Ducking (Stagger)>+; This is beyond nice. It's fucking incredible really. It's a combo starter that's elbow speed that's uncounterable and although it's high you will win over anything - even his attempted low punch. Your opponent has to struggle hard with great reaction to get out of the knockdown elbow and and to be able to block it in time if he's staggered meaning anytime you have the ducking stagger you basicly have a free combo.

Ducking (Stagger) >Throw (Like Ryadus mentioned and one of the best).

Ducking (Stagger)(small backstep, not full), (Great against a breakable wall and you can knock them out and win the round).

Ducking (Stagger)+>++ (As a Setup).
All will win over a (probably the normal reaction to getting staggered by Brad). Note that is not a valid option in this situation (although it would be the fastest) as the will miss (unless up against a wall).

The last example is probably the most fun to do as remember, you can always duck safely if the opponent is staggered. So in a game it could look something like this, first you do some 's or something which will condition your opponent to try and duck the last low kick then you do a >duck> and get the stagger and then it's play time;

Ducking(Stagger)(Opponent tries ) >+(Stagger)>Ducking>
(hitscan if you got the stagger, otherwise cancel at first and throw)(If the opponent tries another against your ducking after your +(Stagger) your punches will win and you have a free combo on him)>Combo (Something like this should also have already pushed your opponent greatly backwards already allowing you to do a powerfull wall combo if you play your cards right in the combo).
If you were to just land something like this (and it's actually not a fantasy example but quite probable) in a match you should be able up against 150dmg already against an LW from just thinking right out of a ducking stagger. Brad is just hella nice in dealing out damage fast when he needs it sometimes.


Over and Out /KiwE

 

That is very nice stuff, it makes his ducking options all the more dangerous and highlights his srtong wakes /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

What about the usefullness of ,? Both hits are guaranteed if the first hits and the range is longer than it looks. It seems very safe on block too. On hit + works well as it can beat most mids and highs here.
The pushback on hit also makes sway back a safe option, the or sway option can be added if you force a whiff.

 

nice post kiwe... some great mixups to try there! i will certainly try to stick the ducking > + into my Brad matches /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

i was just wondering other people's opinions on his options after + throw.. i've read a lot about doing the step change knee () but for me this isn't a good option. it will only hit QR'ers who duck, and if you think they're going to do that then brad has better options (like + or even +). if it's blocked then even though it's no longer throw counterable, you're still at a large disadvantage.. so IMO it's not the best option to use in that situation.

the basic options i use after + are as follows:

- then +: this will back stagger opponents who side-recovery roll and will OTG anyone who decides to play dead and lie on the floor. once your opponent has suffered this a few times they should realise that their only "safe" option is to QR. if you carefully pay attention, you will spot which recovery they are attempting, and can react accordingly. i wouldn't recommend doing this on QRers (unless you're 90% sure they will try to duck) because you'll be at a large disadvantage if it's blocked.

- , slip right (++), then either smash hook () or hunting middle kick (). this will catch opponents who have a habit of trying to evade after a QR.. brad's "slipping" moves are nice for hitting hardcore evaders hehe. i think it is better to usually go with hunting middlekick because of the advantage, but i feel that characters with mid reversals like to think they can just reverse anything that comes out of his slipping.. so that's when they get a head cumble haha!

- , throw. vital in any sort of mixup /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif and the disheartening feeling your opponent will get from receiving a + twice in a row is priceless!

by all means comment on it, especially if you think my opinions are weak.. i'm always looking to improve /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Onny; I think you're maybe still missing the point with Brad's after his +...
You're not supposed to do it after the opponent gets back control of his character but during his QR .
It will hit anybody who doesn't QR gaurd and that's the point. You're probably not connecting it cause you're not mixing it up with the other part of this 50/50 and that's him throwing anyone who does a Quickrise>gaurd. Most people will actually do a Quickrise>gaurd (gaurd has to be inputed during his quickrise animation - what he does after is of little importance).

Start by just throwing anybody who does a QR for a period, most people who don't quite understand every aspect of a QR will continue doing QR gaurd to infinity thinking they're just to slow when coming out of the QR honestly... Throw and throw and throw even more.

Just do +> as your starting point always (so you can be certain you can hunt ppl who TR). If the opponent QR'es (and gaurds which they probably will do most of the time) do a + or something just at the end of their animation and it will connect.

About the other options you mentioned;

+; It will connect against a QR'er that doesn't gaurd aswell, true, but the hit you get in this situation is not a CH or anything meaning that even if you hit with + the punch after isn't garanteed or anything (you can be 'd MC out of it). That's why the is good, it's the results on normal hit that counts and it juggles/combos on normal hit. Perhaps, like said earlier, you're talking about just when the opponent gets back the control of his char and tries to you but that's not a part of Brads QR 50/50 situation really.

+ will give a stagger on any hit but it's just as counterable as the (also TC) so I'd still favor the . You could ofc do some crazy eyes shit like against the QR riser but since you only get a few frames shaved of and it's P counterable you'd get a TC situation against you if he QR-Gaurds. If you really want to be different you should do a slip left (remember, the attack has to be mid to catch someone in the QR animation so slip right just won't cut it), if you want something really fancy - slip left can kill of rising attacks (pretty harsh timing though).

Shoju; I don't like doing his to much really as opposed to (which is actually faster); I just don't like the 'even' situation on normal hit after the second punch (and 9.9 times out of 10 it will be just that). If I connect I like doing stuff like >Throw (PK combo cancelled) or something but then a will win against me. If I myself and he does nothing but gaurd nothing will happen. Some people who aren't so familiar with Brad will actually freeze up after the move so you can throw them. You can do a small backstep after > and hit the or something similar or even do >>attack options (hard to hit scan) but I just think there are a great number of variables and uncertainty in doing this move to much as you have no control of the opponents reactions at all after a hit. It's not a bad move though and you sober Shun up with it and due to the long pushback it's nice against a wall. I think I really should start using this move more though as it's really really nice damage on it (44dmg for both punches if first connects as a CH).