Brad's good points

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KiwE said:

Yes there is a need for - atleast I'd like the option to try it out (and the knowledge of how to do it could be trancended to other characters so that's kinda also why I asked).

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Is that a typo? I'm assuming you're still talking about the .

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Moves that people see rarely in flowcharts are moves that connect - I can see the second elbow MC'ing for example alot if you do it from a CD etc but has to be tested (and the move is hellasafe).

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I don't quite agree. In general, a lot of Mid-High strings are far from safe to use, especially if you're thinking of flowcharting with them a lot. MCing with the second (high) elbow only comes about if you've conditioned them with smart flows after a single . But even then, unless you get an MC from the , you don't really have much advantage to really force any kind of offensive guessing game, because a from the opponent will pretty much stop anything after that. If the second elbow were a special high then it'd be a different story... but it's not.

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And regarding damage after a wallhit - I kinda think I'd get kinda more out of a + wallstagger then a + right? /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

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I think TBBWolf was referring to the followup after a wall hit (in the air) after a . A big down or + are perfect followups, whereas you can forget about the altogether.

What you were referring to (I assume) were followups after a heavy wall stagger, and there are much better options than the . A simple , for example, does more damage.

Just going back a few posts regarding the use of to punish slow low attacks, I don't think there's a lot of potential here at all. Firstly, is an upper-speed attack (15f exe), so in order to execute it from a crouch, you need to buffer a standing dash. This adds 1 frame to your execution, so in total your , from a crouch, will take 16 frames (middle-kick speed) to execute. Now, this isn't very useful because you already have a 16 frame attack with the + which you can execute from crouch with ease, and more importantly is also a combo starter, whereas the is not.

Just to add my 2c for Brad since we've talked about wall combos:

(wall stagger) ~ SL ~ + ~ + 91pts
(wall stagger) ~ SL ~ + ~ 95pts
Since the does 22pts, against a wall it will produce a heavy wall stagger. If you slip left for the Piercing Knee, it'll crumble because you're hitting during stagger. The + knocks them into the wall such that they can't tech, and the ground followup is then free for you to choose.

+ (wall stagger) ~ + ~ + 74pts
+ (wall stagger) ~ + ~ 78pts
The + doing 22pts damage again produces a heavy wall stagger. Against all characters except Shun, Lei, Lion and Lau, you can squeeze an extra punch in the Last Shot series (+) to give 77pts and 80pts respectively. However, there's a small risk that you could miss the last hit () due to wall distance/angle, so if you're unsure just stick to the 3-hit version of the Last Shot combo.

In general, the and + are both great moves to use when you're looking for wall combos because they're quite safe on guard.

 

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KiwE said:

but I hardly see any variants / mixups ever used - thoughts? Are there any flowcharts to use really / some ways to use well that isn't to obvious? Is (hit) > throw mixed up with (delayed) for example a valid option?

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I rarely use the outside of head crumble combos nowadays. The properties on it, outside of MC, aren't strong enough for you to really pose any threat. On normal hit, the is -3, so in those guaranteed situations, your opponent can still fuzzy and foil anything you try. This, like some other combos, is usually effective against opponents who aren't used to Brad yet but at higher levels it's weakness becomes apparent. If you're somehow lucky and manage to score an MC off the then you're at +3 which is a strong position to be in. Aside from that though, this combo may have some use in baiting a response from your opponent, but there are risks with that obviously.

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2) How do you play the advantage on hit well? (On highlevel - fuzzy normal against you when you hit?)

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Like most characters , you're at +2, so it's a typical nitaku situation where you can go for elbow or throw. However, against the girls who have 11 frame punches, your elbow will lose, so another or can be effective here. Otherwise, an opponent can fuzzy using motion cut to defeat the nitaku. BTW, this applies to any character, not just Brad.

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3) I've found natural uses for all his slips / dodges but the one that really stands out as the one I use the least in game is probably his SL - yeah you're on abit smaller diss on this then SL but SL crumbles on any hit etc and has more range so I just can't seem to incorporate SL in my game really - it just fades in comparision to SL . Use of SL ?

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I don't think the SL fades in comparison at all. All you need to do is compare the on guard frame difference: SL is -6 and SL is -1. As you can see, the SL is about as safe as you can get. From here you can just fuzzy or even sneak in a against an over-eager opponent. The SL , on the other hand, requires higher level defense after guard which is always a risky option.

While the SL may crumble on normal hit, the SL gives you +2 which, again, is a good nitaku situation for Brad. When you compare the risk/reward for each move I think they're both fairly balanced out. The SL has slightly higher risk for slightly higher reward when compared to the SL .

 

Re: Keep thread alive.

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KiwE said:

; how/why do you fuzzy gaurd when you're +3 against a delayable midattack?

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The opponent is at +3, if and only if, Brad stops the string at . The threat of the delayed mid is always there. If you look at the opponent's defensive options, they can:

1. just stand there and guard. But they'll be susceptible to throws unless they have great reflexes.

2. anticipate the delayed mid and dodge (it is linear afterall). But if Brad chose to slip instead, then it's a free crumble combo. So this is a high risk defense option.

3. anticipate a throw. They can forget about buffering multiple throw escapes because there isn't enough time unless they dodged first. But dodging is already a high risk option as explained in the first point. So your best defense here is to start crouching. If a delayed mid does come out you can stand to guard it. Also, if Brad chose a slipping option (in anticipation of a dodge), you're also safe.

So that's why, in my opinion, fuzzy guarding after the is the lowest risk defensive option the opponent can choose.

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SL - Yeah, had already forgotten about the exercise with after on block but it feels easy to get into the habit of doing this which kinda sucks when your opponent gets used to it.

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What sucks about conditioning your opponent?

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Since SL is +2 on normal hit then your opponent would be able to fuzzy gaurd like after right so why would this be a strong nitaku situation in this point?

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Well, a +2 being a good nitaku option isn't just my opinion, it's the very definition of nitaku. At +2 and higher, this is where you can force the 2-choice guess. And at +2, your opponent must crouch dash if they intend to fuzzy guard -- which is not a defensive technique I see a lot of people doing reliably, and so if I were to give my personal opinion on it, I would still say it's a good nitaku setup.

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About :

Well it's safer then atleast which is the only other elbowspeed mid attack Brad has. You could for example score a MC with this against a TR (or just pick him up if he tries to lowpunch).

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When you say it's safer, I assume you're just comparing the guard properties. However, if you don't just look at the worst-case scenario only and consider what happens on, say, a crouch or counter hit, then with the you get a guaranteed knockdown and more damage than the , and the risks associated are negligible (since we're talking about the guaranteed followup). Also, just a correction, the isn't elbow speed (14f), it's actually upper speed (15f).

As for your TR example, well, you can MC with just about anything so I don't see what's so special about the in this particular situation. Anyway I think I'm rambling now so I'll just say this: my initial response toward the was in reply to your initial comment where you said it was "hella safe". I just wanted to point out that it wasn't, because a good opponent will and can crouch the second hit on guard and punish you. The non-counterable property doesn't help you much if they don't guard it.

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A standard use for it would be if you fuzzy and your opponent also is doing the same imo like seen in a recent konjou vs ghettoshun clip. What would you else do? ? +? I think just seems safer / feels faster coming out.

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Now I'm not saying it's a useless move and you should never use it. You should know my stance by now when it comes to assessing a move -- I pretty much believe everything has a use (remember the + discussions?) and I'm never quick to totally dismiss a move.

However, you should be aware of the risks, and hey, if your opponents let you get away with abuse, then why should you stop using it? More power to you I say.

And once again, is slower than , and when you're sure of the hit for either one, then the followup is guaranteed.

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And about being even on normal hit - weren't you the one arguing against me when I was new to the board and said how much it sucked that normalhit was even Myke?

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Eh? Are you making this up? I want proof! /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif In any case, I don't see where the issue of being even on normal hit was addressed here by me? So why are you bringing it up?

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Big/Important question though:

Backstagger: >(ducking)>+, (From the Brad Dojo) - I simply can not get this to connect so I'm stuck on + - please help somebody (Myke)? I take it you can not do it after + TR (or can you?) but when do you use it then?


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Maybe I'll update the dojo one of these days. Anyway, that combo is only possible if your opponent doesn't give a decent struggle. In training, set the CPU to slow struggle and you shouldn't have a problem. Watch the short vid I made to see this, and a couple of other back stagger options. But in practice, unless your opponent is totally caught by surprise or has the reflexes of a sloth, then just stick to + + big down attack.

Brad Back Stagger Combos

Back Stagger combos shown are:

+ - opponent TRs - + - small dash - then

- + (83pts)
second misses in video and is fairly unreliable, but I have connected it before.

- (91pts)
best damage

- (88 pts)
for style

btw, all of these are light weight only, and the damage listed is just for the back stagger component. Add another 40pts (or 30pts if they do exact recovery) for the throw for the total damage.

 

Re: Keep thread alive.

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Ryadus said:

Gosh guys! These conversations makes me feel dizzy. Myke, do you mean that those stagger combos doesn't work if your stagger recovery is normal? I mean those last combos.

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That's correct.

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Is Brad's combo list under work, Myke?
I would like to see it quickly so I can beat the hell out of Izha.

Where can I find that Brad Dojo?

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I'm not working on any combo lists as I'm just too busy. Anyway there isn't anything new in terms of combos.. and the dojo has a good collection of combos which are still applicable. The dojo is, and always has been, in the Brad section. It was written for evo ver.a, so some details may not apply to ver.b, especially when move properties are concerned.

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Ducking against wall causes a stagger and when you continue it by it sometimes hits but not always. Why is that? I can't test one of my wall combos if it doesn't hit.

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After a wall stagger, there is a brief time where the opponent is in a crouch, and so any high attacks will whiff over their heads.

 

Re: Keep thread alive.

Evo changes from version A to version B, for all characters, can be found here:

http://am.sega.jp/utop/closeup/vf4evo_a2b.html

it's in Japanese though, so run it through a translator. For Brad, the changes are:

- miss recovery changed

- changed to middle-punch reversal. In ver.A it was an elbow reversal.

- recovery changed. In ver.A, after this was guarded you could do a SL to beat a . But not anymore.

- + is now guard-half, which means if you hit the opponent in a crouch guard, it only does half damage (but staggers).

- + damaged reduced from 20pts to 15pts, and recovery changed. It was uncounterable in ver.A, and now throw (-10) guaranteed in ver.B.

- + made easier to counter (not so sure on the change here).

- During a Ducking, or any move leading into one, any hits against Brad are now a minor counter hit. In ver.A, they were considered a normal hit. The implications this has is that you're in hit stun for longer, and some attacks/combos are guaranteed when minor counter and not normal hit.

- Middle spin kick (Ducking +) now Sobers Shun in ver.B.

- During a Slipping, or any move leading into one, any hits against Brad are now a minor counter hit. In ver.A, they were considered a normal hit. Same implications as the Ducking change.

- Hunting middle kick (Slipping Right ) now Sobers Shun in ver.B

- During a Sway Back, or any move leading into one, any hits against Brad are now a minor counter hit. In ver.A, they were considered a normal hit. Same implications as the Ducking change.

- After the +, it's now easier to do instant recovery.

- The + throw damage is reduced from 50 (40+10) to 40 (30+10).

- Right side throw recovery changed.

- The + throw recovery changed.

- Neck Catch now produces a wall hit when in range.

- All of the Neck Catch position changes had their recovery time changed.

- Fixed the bug of the big down attack being possible anytime Brad had his back turned (regardless of the opponent standing or not).

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Onny said:

also, how useful is the catch-throw? i tend to get it struggled quite frequently so i don't use it much.. anyone have any suggestions?


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It's not crucial to Brad's game, but if you know how to use it properly it can sometimes come in real handy. Your opponents are probably struggling out because your inputs are too slow -- you don't have time to think, you must act right away. If you've seen any of my Brad movies in the Sydney Evo thread, you may have noticed that I've used it from time to time with a good amount of success.

 

Re: Keep thread alive.

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Izha said:

Finally, Brad´s command list is avalaible and I know how to escape follow ups now(thank you Akai!!!).

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Dude, Brad's command list (evo ver.a) has been available since April last year, which tells you how to guard the catch followups... and you only notice it now?