Buffering - VF Players Take it for Granted

While trying to help more people (especially from other fighters) get into VF, I realize that there's something we forget to say upfront to people new to the game--we often neglect to explain how simple buffering works in VF.

A lot of players from other games assume they should time their responses based on when their character has fully recovered. But VF gives you a few frames to buffer early.

Sometimes when we tell people to block a low punch and do an elbow, we fail to realize how slow they are doing it (unless we do the mash 2p drill).

Anyways, this is just a friendly reminder to explain this aspect of the game to people new to VF. You'll probably realize as I did how many people don't figure it out or assume the buffer is stricter than it is

And this tiny thing we take for granted often makes a world of difference.

 

Exactly how many frames can you buffer an input early? Is the frame count for buffering different for different moves?

Also just found out how LAZY the FS's "lazy TE" is. OMFG. I can just hold P+G forever (and still be blocking). Add the reduced number of throw directions, and the removal of 0-frame throwing... is there any more point to try throwing? Have grapplers gotten the shaft?

 

As a new player this is an important point I realized last night while watching the frame data of my online replay matches. It really makes a huge difference!

 

There are many things that VF players take for granted, this is one of them.


I find that the most common situation is that people don't seem to realize that disadvantage means that you normally should not start a new attack. You need to block or evade, OR ELSE you give a free counter hit to the other player.
I explain this one to almost every new player I come across before directing them to this site.


Another is that almost every string of attacks can be delayed.
Mix delay/no delay, delay/variation, delay/no followup.
And if you cancel the string instead of a delay, you can take the risk of starting a new string or using a throw, depending on how you think the opponent will react to your cancel.
Opting for a throw is most effective when the canceled attack was a successful hit, so hit-check your stuff.
And there you have it, poke game 101.

Throws are still very much fine. Give the opponent a good reason to block and force them to guess which throw direction you are going to use.

 

Chanchai likes this!

 

I think this is a really big key to point out especially when teaching players with a 2D/Street Fighter heavy background. Because the buffer is so large they can shorten the amount of inputs used when hit checking in VF, and can better utilize the skills they probably already have from 2D games.

For example using Akira, hit checking whether + hits as a CH or is guarded is much easier for if new players get used to buffering the motion after the + then hitting either or within the 10F buffer based whether they see the CH yellow flash or not. It's the same as hitting low jab low jab and hit checking the low forward fireball for 2D players.

 

Those informations are nice but i'm sure 99% of the players use the buffer already by default. So tell people to use something they use already can lead to a weird situation.
If we try to input earlier now in thinking we never used it before, the risk is we will input too early now.

My other concern is for buffer during the guard recovery. I'm from Street Fighter games and blockstun end automatically. IN VF5, i stay in guard as soon as i hold guard button. I really think you should learn people to handle with the mecanism of holding a button and release before talking about buffer during guard and stuff like that.

Why ? Because using a buffer in guard doesn't make sense for me if i hold guard. How i am suppose to buffer P in guard when i want to punish someone at -12 ? Usually it's when i release G that i input P. Now with the buffer info, what i have to do ?
Input P earlier means i have to release G earlier. Earlier how ? If i used to hold and release G with this timing it's because i feel the danger is over

Release G earlier means i have to relearn the way i use the guard. And say that make me realise that i never read anything about the way to guard. Because it's just holding a button we assume there is nothing else to say.

Did i have to only tap guard now ? Is it the secret ? How top players manage this button ? A lot of question

 

You hold gaurd while buffering motions. when you are ready to press buttons let go of gaurd and then input the attack. you want to buffer motions ealier if your move requires multiple difrections, say a half circle move then if you needed 6p. The main skills are buffering really quickly to get harder to used but probably useful moves out after a block. or to delay it as long as possible for more time to react but still be early enough to not have gaps

 

Cnul: the buffering being discussed above is for the most part situations where holding is the last step. The situations you are describing would be you can hit to punish someone at -12 10 frames earlier than the move will come out. What you're describing is the easiest buffering. The examples Myke, Chanchai and myself are giving are when moves require multiple inputs, such as when fuzzy guarding with crouch dashes or doing multi-input motions for move punishes (Akira elbow for example).

 

I missed that part. Where is that? Link?

What about people, such as myself who still you a D-Pad?

 

Did you confuse TE to mean Tournament Edition stick? If so, he meant "Throw Escape" when he said TE.

The new Throw Escape is as follows:

* Press and Hold "Guard" - so that your character will be guarding.

* Then, while holding "Guard," press and hold P and a throw escape direction (forward, back, neutral are all valid for high throw escapes).

By doing this, you will stand guarding and your opponent cannot throw you with a normal high throw that your held throw escape input would escape. It is a new Guard-Throw Escape method in Final Showdown.

This technique can easily be done on a pad, though you might have to slightly shift your right thumb to cover two button presses if using a traditional binding. If you're using the kind of binding Denkai uses (and I use when I have to play on a pad), then it's pretty easy because that layout is like having Guard as a face button, and punch as R1, Kick as R2 (this binding uses your right fingers the same way you would on an arcade stick).

 

Time allowed to buffer commands?

Hello all,

I was experimenting with Wolf in dojo mode over the weekend, and I found something that was new to me. I found that if I did a Giant Swing command, I had quite a long time allowed before I needed to input the final command. This would let me do a "walk up" giant swing. For example, I could input

(Giant swing starts in back, you can hold this)
5f (Giant swing input starts)
20f (Giant swing input continues, but wolf is walking forward here)
(Giant swing input completes in 25 frames from start to end)

My testing was that you have about 30 frames before inputting the . So in the above example Wolf is walking for 20f before the giant swing comes out. I tried this with Burning hammer, F5, Giant Swing, and Hellevator, and they all seemed to follow this rule. However simpler throws like did not. I had very few frames to do those.

Did I stumble on a general VF5 rule here? Is there some universal rule as to long long you are allowed to input a move? Or does it vary from character to character? Does it apply only to throws?

This seems like a fairly powerful technique. Anyone have info on this?

 

Re: Time allowed to buffer commands?

Totally love that you brought this up and are adding more to the conversation ^_^

Myke actually covers this in this particular thread. He basically said that each move has its own window for completing the inputs for that move.

He did write it clearly, but it was easy to miss that point because the topic of conversation was more focused on the 10-frame buffer window to input the very last command of your move before you recover from being frame-locked.

But yes, Myke stated that each move has its own requirements regarding the amount of frames in the frame window to fully input the move.

Of course, Myke would also refer you to the system wiki's buffering section for the complete scoop

 

Re: Time allowed to buffer commands?

Thanks for the clarification Chanchai. This begs the question, is there a list of the window time allowed per move? If I am right and giant swing is 30f, (and I think basic directional throws are 8f or something like that, I'll have to recheck), what is the data for other moves? This would make great info to add on the move guide.