Buy naomi 2 board for VF4

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by nascarbryant, Feb 5, 2001.

  1. nascarbryant

    nascarbryant Well-Known Member

    I wonder if someone here does consider to buy a noami 2 board . One good thing is, that the naomi 2 board will have a seperate GD-rom drive to keep the cost low(you could easily change games, luckyly naomi2 is naomi1 compatible), though what worry's me is that sega might stop naomi2 production quite soon , because they said they are making a new konsole-compatible arcade-boared in cooperation with a big player in the industry(sony=system 256,microsoft=?,nintendo=?...source ign,magicbox...i'm not sure).
    Well, if sega refuses to bring VF4 on DC,Gamecube,or XBOX (the last two significantly more powerfull then the texture-weak PS2) and if the PS2 still will be that expensive and if the port will be quite bad(because of the PS2 off course) i'm realliy considering buying the board (only the board).
    luckily in germany there are some pro's who are experts in making jamma-boards compatible with TV's and joysticks(wolfsoft.de)

    I wonder does someone of you have, posses a Vf1,2,3 arcade machine?

    P.S last weekend we had a big Swissgamenight.....it was tremendous fun i even could play VF3tb on a projectionscreen as big as a cinema screen, some VF-players(off course my lion was unbeateable, but my jacky isn't that strong any more I have to refresh my old jacky-skills. there where some good VF-players there but nothing exeptional, sadly Fightingvipers2 wasn't popular there. the swiss TV came and i tried to discribe FV2 in a proper may......I think this game diserves more respect..

    Greetings nascar
     
  2. uk_kid

    uk_kid Well-Known Member

    for those interested:



    "Naomi 2 Specifications

    CPU
    CPU: 200 MHz Hitachi SH-4 (SH7091)
    CPU Memory: 32 MBytes (100 MHz SDRAM)
    CPU Memory Data Path: 64-bits
    Memory Bandwidth: (800 MBytes/sec)

    Geometry Co-processor
    Geometry Co-processor: VideoLogic custom transformation & lighting (T&L) chip (Code named: ELAN)
    Clock Rate: 100 MHz
    Sustained Polygonal and Lighting Rate: 10 million polygons/sec with 6 light sources!
    Supported Lights: Ambient, parallel, point and spot
    Vertex Support: Combined dynamic and static model processing
    Geometry Memory: 32 MBytes
    External Memory Data Path: unknown
    Memory Bandwidth: unknown

    Graphics Processing Unit (x2)
    GPU: Two PowerVR2 (CLX2)
    Pixel Fill-Rate: 200 MPixels/sec (400 MPixels/sec to 600 MPixels/sec due to infinite plane architecture assuming depth overdraw complexity of 2 to 3 layers)
    Graphics Memory: 2 x 32 MB (100 MHz SDRAM)
    External Data Path: 64-bits per GPU (128-bits total)
    Memory Bandwidth: 800 MB/sec per GPU (1.6 GB/sec total)
    Graphic Effects: Polygons/strips/fans engine, 16-bit and 24-bit color, multiple fog modes, super sampling for full scene anti-aliasing, specular highlighting, texture filtering: bilinear, trilinear, anistropic, MIP mapping, bump mapping, perspective correction, 8-bit alpha blending (256 levels of transparency), ARGB gouraud shading, general modifier volumes (GMV) for such effects as shadows, light, transpararency, etc.

    Note: SEGA listed 2,000 MPixels/sec for the fill rate, and there is no point in listing that here, as that is not realistic. That assumes an overdraw of 10x and no game has that kind of overdraw.

    Other
    Sound Engine: 45 MHz Yamaha ASIC with ARM7 CPU core supporting 64 channels of 48 KHz, 16-bit sound (64 channel ADPCM)
    Sound Memory: 8 MB DRAM

    Media: ROM board, optional GD-ROM drive
    Display: Dual monitor support
    Communications: RS232C serial port
    Game Port: JAMMA video system (JVS)

    Geometry Coprocessor

    Naomi 2 has a dedicated geometry coprocessor to handle transformations and lighting which is rated at 10 million polygons per second with 6 light sources. Note that the T&L processor is not limited to 6 lights, as a maximum of 16 lights per polygon can be achieved, but with a reduction in the polygon rate. The geometry chip will offload all T&L calculations previously performed by the 128-bit matrix math unit on the SH-4. The SH-4 will now be free to devote more of its resources for physics, artificial intelligence, collision detection and overall game code. The hardware T&L unit features combined dynamic and static model processing, and multiple light type support (ambient, parallel, point and spot).

    Almost all T&L processors on the market never state what their polygon rate is with the number of light sources present per polygon, and the reason why, is because the polygon rate goes way down with more light sources, with the current T&L processors on the market. T&L should always be rated with number of polygons with number of light sources present. Note: the lighting information for a polygon does not have to be related to a light source, as light information can also be used to make an object look more realistic. Like trying to make plastic look like plastic in a game.

    Dual Graphics Chips

    Two PowerVR2 (CLX2) GPU's with 32 MB of memory each, which is twice the amount that the PVR2 GPU had on the Naomi 1 board. Each chip renders half the screen (rectangular, stripes, and checker board options), so game textures have to be repeated in both local memory pools, but the display list (infinite plane) data covers only the area of the screen that each GPU has to render.

    Overall Bandwidth

    Hard to determine the exact overall bandwidth, as SEGA has not released the data path size for the geometry coprocessor. It most likely would be 32-bits or 64-bits in size, and we will assume 64-bits to help give us a rough ideal on the overall bandwidth. If it is only 32-bits, then the final total below would be 400 MB/sec less.


    Data Path Bandwidth
    CPU SH-4 <-> 32 MB Main Memory 64-bits x 100 MHz = 800 MB/sec
    "ELAN" Coprocessor <-> 32 MB Memory 64-bits x 100 MHz = 800 MB/sec
    1) PVR2DC <-> 32 MB Graphics Memory 64-bits x 100 MHz = 800 MB/sec
    2) PVR2DC <-> 32 MB Graphics Memory 64-bits x 100 MHz = 800 MB/sec
    Total: ~3.2 GigaBytes/sec

    Total overall bandwidth is roughly twice the bandwidth of Naomi 1. Note that the PowerVR GPU's can push the equivalent of 2 to 3 times their bandwidth as compared to a traditional renderer, so that would give the comparative overall bandwidth to be roughly 5 to 6 GigaBytes/sec. Note: I did not include the sound sytem which also has it's own local memory pool.

    Motherboard

    Click to Enlarge
    Click to Enlarge Naomi 2 motherboard showing the geometry processor (under heatsink), the SH-4 CPU (upper middle part of the board), and the two PowerVR2 (CLX2) chips (under the fans).

    Click to Enlarge Naomi 2 daughterboard showing two DIMM slots and can contain 256 MB of memory in these configurations: 128 MB x 2 or 256 MB x 1. This DIMM daughterbord is needed for the games that will be distributed on GD-ROM's. Sports Jam (WOW Entertainment) for the Naomi 1 is the first game to be distributed on a GD-ROM disk.

    Naomi 2 & Naomi 1 cases
    Back of Naomi 2 case
    Naomi 2 case
    Motherboard and daughter board
    All pictures courtesy of Gary Evans (DCTP Japanese correspondent) and also IGN's Naomi 2 article and were taken at the JAMMA Fall 2000 arcade show.

    Load Balancing

    Naomi 2 shows excellent load balancing between processors and local memory pools. The three most computational tasks for a 3D game is:

    Game AI & Code
    Transformation and Lighting
    Rendering
    The Naomi 2 board has a dedicated processor and local memory pool for each of the three major tasks in a 3D game. This will help minimize processor contention for the three tasks, and allow for more efficient memory accesses. This efficient segmented memory design allows for the use of cheaper single data rate SDRAM's instead of DDR SDRAMs. At the time of this writing SDR SDRAM is much cheaper than DDR SDRAM, but soon DDR SDRAM will achieve similar pricing as volume production is ramped up. Note: The sound system also has it's own processor and memory pool, so it's tasks and resources will not interfere with the other processors.
    GD-ROM Distribution

    It was at the JAMMA Fall 2000 arcade show that SEGA showed off a new distribution method for arcade games, as both the Naomi 1 and Naomi 2 boards allow a daughter board for RAM, and both allow GD-ROM drives to be hooked up. The RAM daughter board holds the game to be played that is spooled off of the GD-ROM. This will help eliminate any load times."




    - taken from the official xbox site.
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    thanks, UK-kid I never saw such a big faq about the naomi2 board.
    still I think it will be the last big(and expensive) Arcade Hardware for some Time and also the Last arcade-hardware Develloped by Sega, the chance that we get this hardware in the arcades(Switzerland) are very slim, probably we will get Soulcalibur2 or Bloodyroar3(less expensive and easier to play, VF3 was too difficult for people here(massusers-not freaks).
    thats the main reason I'm thincking about buying the hardware, but who knows maybe the DC or XBOX,GC will get a good port, a playstation2 exlusiv would be a sad thing, I hope sega won't disapoint their fans any further
     
  4. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Well, keep in mind NOT TO GET HUNG UP ON THE WORD EXCLUSIVE.

    Seriously though, an exclusive doesn't mean much. Especially when you compare the release of the Gamecube in your area compared to the potential release of VF4 on PS2.

    It's been said before, but it seems to need reminding. Exclusive is just a catch phrase. Just like "megs" which console gamers used to (and many still do) mix up with Megabytes when cartridge makers meant (while marketers purposefully left room for misinterpretation, naturally) Megabits. "Exclusive" has been thrown around to differenct contexts, it really doesn't mean much at all.

    Of course, if you can afford it, the best option is to get the arcade original/images/icons/smile.gif

    -Chanchai

    P.S. While on the topic, shall we do as the Koreans did and form clubs to pool in money to buy an arcade unit? Oh wouldn't that be so nice! I'm thinking of proposing that to some Portland players/images/icons/smile.gif
     

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