Chanchai's VF4 SVGL Beta Impressions

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by Chanchai, Aug 6, 2001.

  1. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    The following impression is just something I typed up for a fellow Lion player out in Minnesota. I'll add more if I write anything more on the subject. Also, thanks to that certain person for getting me to write this, though it's pretty raw and not thought out (just wrote what was in my head at the time--as usual anyways).

    Disclaimer: The following impressions are INTERPRETATIONS of my EXPERIENCE with the game. Nothing is meant to be taken as fact or absolutely true. Don't assume this information was tested thoroughly. Furthermore the impressions for which these interpretations are based upon AN EARLY BETA VERSION OF VF4 that was at Sunnyvale Golfland. In other words, read for your interest, not necessarily for your knowledge. And keep in mind its subjectivity and limit of 11 HOURS OF EXPERIENCE (nothing to declare anything with).
    ***End of Disclaimer***

    I still love Lion in VF4, though you have to play certain things a lot more, while playing other things a lot less, and then playing some new stuff. Naturally, this is a new game and Lion is not an exception to the assumed rules implied. Keep in mind that I only had 11 hours of playtime on the game during my whole visit, and that it was a beta, and that I'm only writing to you what I interpreted my experience to be :) Without further ado....

    Lion is still one of the most mobile characters in the game. In fact, what I said on VFDC applies here too, VF4's attempt to exhagerate things. Well, many characters can't move worth crap unless attacked, but they can still move well enough. But Lion can move like a motherfucker (excuse my language, it's part of that VF4 exhageration thing too hehehe). A lot of old Ura tricks won't work.... Ura is still in the game though (f+P,P seems to work well as an ura setup when timed right). However... Lion has a fast dash (in and out) and it's aided by good range. b+P+K+G = ub+E. df+P+K+G = uf+E (out of screen). uf+P+K+G = uf+E (into screen). These alone are great, but there's also Lion's twirling punches which are still pretty cool when used properly. Now it is his dodge attack, to get it instantly: u, neutral+P+K+G (this can be done very fast). Lion is fast, he has range, he has 3d moves that are not limited to the situation, HE is faster than lightning :p Combine this with the fact that almost all other characters aside from Shun are very limited in their movement (while the girls have good speed--Kage is slower though). The only things that seemed to be toned down in Lion's movement from VF3 is uramawari and that awesome ducking property of his forward dash (but man, multiple forward dashes look better than ever--I should find a way to capture my clips).

    Though ura must be further discovered and seems to be less of a strong thing in VF4 (people turn around quickly, etc....), Lion still has awesome okizeme options. db+P+K = d+P+K+E. It works wonders against any non low rising kick riser (yep, works like a charm on people doing high rise, roll, handspring, and quickrise! If they don't block low anyways). uf+P-->df+K+G still works, but you can also do more (like CD,f+P and f,f+Kx). u+K is evil. If you MC with u+K, you can do what Jason Cha does and follow with b,b+K+G, P+K, and various followups. Lion is one insane okizeme hound. However... d+K,K and uf+K are not good followups anymore unless a wall is involved (in which cases, there are better followups). Quick roll will defeat them and make you wish you didn't just forget you were playing VF4 and not VF3. If you want a safety, I do d+K once, but only once. If I see a bounce, maybe again, but after each bounce, the opponent can quick rise still.

    Ring Outs. Lion is still quite the RO King as far as I can tell! Given this, after you get used to the VF4 engine (if you get to play it), you should also apply this knowledge to setting people up to die at the walls! This may be Lion's saving grace for the weaknesses which we presume for now (I'll explain later). However, keep in mind that much of these situations are created with mid attacks and if your opponent knows this, you gotta be a bit more cautions. However, as you know... Lion has other tools to help. d+K(MC), K still works and you can quickly followup with a ground hit I believe (haven't seen anyone quick roll). PP, d+P will be a great asset depending on who you play against, but at least it won't be reversed mid (SO MANY PEOPLE NEVER DUCK LOW!). db+K is now even more evil because IT FLOATS! Yes, you can combo the db+K if you counter it and sometimes when it's a normal hit. So abuse that bastardly low attack if you know your opponent sucks against the wrath of low attacks! So whatever Ring Out techniques and strategies you used before, keep working on them and try to reapply them into VF4. For me, I sometimes go straight for the Ring Out and will constantly pressure the hell out of the opponent. But usually I patiently set them up for RO by playing one of my bastard-zoning type of styles. A bit tricky though.

    Throws are great with Lion. So far, same as before. New moves are all generally great, but I can't give you anything close to accurate on them except maybe f,f+P+K which is an excellent string starter that puts good pressure on the opponent, can be used in some combos and lots more uses I am sure. f+P+K is a fun tool to use as an attack that throws your opponent's rhythm off. To let you know, I'm a rhythm player. Much of my play is revolved around playing a comfortable rhythm that is uncomfortable to the opponent, or constantly mixing up the rhythm to baffle their (usually subconscious) rhythmic sense. Lion's movement abilities help this. b, f+K+G looks great to use in a wall combo and other situations, I have not played with this (in fact, I generally forgot about it until I flew back to Oregon). The version we played did not have a Lion alternate stance. However, we somehow accidentally stumbled upon a kick inashi of some sort, but we could never get it to work again.

    BTW, if you can nail P+K, you can open up some nice combos (unless the opponent can somehow quickrise if that is possible--I don't know if it is).

    Weaknesses... The main weakness right now seems to be that Lion depends a lot on either low or mid attacks. This has been the case a lot of times, but with mid reversals now reversing ALL mid attacks, well... it makes it tough on Lion and the opponent really has a two way guessing game for the "typical" Lion. The punishment can be grand as well. Akira can be downright mean to Lion. Aoi as well, because she can stuff Lion a lot. If charge attacks end up becoming vital at all for breaking guard, well.... it seems like so far Lion has the most retarded charge attack (maybe Sarah's is the worst). I haven't figured the best use for b+P+K, but I did eat some attacks trying to use it the way I do in VF3 (heard it's good as an anti-elbow in the version of 4 that we played though). Lion is still generally a very low damage character unless he gets a nice counter in their somewhere. If he's the positional bastard I think he is, I'd like to see what happens when players set the stage for wall combos with him. I have a feeling people that feel intimidated by Lion (as opposed to fully confident in their chosen character), will pick wall stages against him. At least somewhere down the road anyways.

    With VF4 having less blockstun and recovery (recovery is bigger than it looks though--this threw me off for quite a few rounds when I first played, it's not really visable, but it's there), you might think Lion is way more powerful than before. After all, maybe he's less vulnerable to getting counter thrown/attack. Or that his low recovery makes him more of a poking machine. Well, not really. His recovery times are still not the best (far from it me thinks). I think he's still strong, and I pretty much feel he (alone--as if other characters weren't such an issue) is no stronger or weaker than in VF3. However, he is different and takes time to use. Scrubs will probably be able to use him now, but they won't be able to play Lion well (which I guess means he'll still be like VF3 Lion--looks easy to use, not really easy to use against stronger competition). Lion will still be a character that you simply cannot just pick up and play after watching. Such characters would be Lau and Jacky as far as I can tell. He seems like you still need to know his nuances and you really need to know what to do with him. Combos are not just handed to him, he has to create them almost as much as he did in VF3. And imo, he still depends on a great sense of movement too.

    That's what I can think about Lion for the moment, but I think you'll like what I wrote. He has a lot more combos now, but the starters are often different (u+P+K can be a good starter, but it's a bit tough, but again, remember, db+K is a bit evil when it's a counter hit, u+K is just plain evil, P+K if you can manage it--somehow I do, etc...).

    Oh yeah, his clothes.... I like his player one outfit, hate his player two outfit, hate his profile pic on the select screen. On the profile pic, he looks whacked with a deformed nose and face. You would think his mother was an ant-eater! His player 2 costume is the whacked J-Rock Star (or so people tell me) look. I somehow keep thinking that he looks like a major confederate hick with the red, blue, and white and what looks like a criss-cross on his front. Some people like this look, all good (much to do with how you perceive Lion's character as it is). However, his first player costume I like! Black shirt (button up it seems, short sleeves, collar), black shorts... heck, it's the kind of stuff I wear anyways! So I naturally like it. Also, ummm.... his win poses are way too goofy! I mean, what's with waiving his hands up like a prankster out of some manga? I swear he was gonna start sticking out his tongue and squirm like a girl (fortunately he didn't). Oh well... he's always been a dork... From Marty McFly, to dorky Shrink Wrap (uggh), to... Zach of DoA fame wannabe! And then some...


    -Chanchai
     
  2. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    Chanchai,

    Was good playing with ya' on Saturday at SVGL :) Pity you have to head back to Oregon, I'm planning to go back to the arcade on Tuesday evening and Wednesday afternoon for more fun and games...

    -- Chris
     
  3. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    I definitely enjoyed our matches on Saturday. Wish I had more than 2 hours that day to play, but it was worth it. Was definitely great getting to know you as well. Keep in touch.

    On Thursday night, I also really enjoyed the matches with Yamcha, Kouryouken (I'm sure I mispelled that--VFZone seems to be down), Jason Cha, and Clopin among others. Yamcha, keep it up (without going broke anyways). Kouryouken, keep working at it and keep in touch. Jason, thanks for everything, you're pretty damn scary when you're playing in your serious mode (usually final round), I appreciated everything. Clopin, thanks for the heads up on that great Persian restaurant, damn good stuff! I personally had a lot of fun fighting your Aoi, have lots of it on tape/versus/images/icons/smile.gif

    Myke.... Hope you made it into Sacramento and Folsom okay, I didn't see you all Friday night... But have a wonderful trip back to Montreal.

    To the Dark and Silvan (I hope I remembered that correctly) and that one Japanese player (like he reads this), thanks for the VF3 OB matches at the Folsom Gameroom, lots of fun!

    In any case, this was a most excellent Cali trip for me.

    -Chanchai

    P.S. Jason, just watched our final Lion vs. Lion match from Thursday night. Since the SVGL machine didn't have background music (or was it just set to very low?), the music from the Beat Mania machine behind us was pretty cool going along with that match. Would like to get into more detail, but aside from insisting on trying to nail uf K as a ground hit a few times (uf K is practically back to its VF2 state as far as I can tell), I really loved that match!<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Chanchai on 08/06/01 07:31 PM (server time).</FONT></P>
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    In defense of some of Lions winning poses: From what I have seen thus far, his winning poses seem to incorporate several actual praying mantis kung fu stances/movements. I'm no authority but I have taken several mantis lessons from a local master. Just some random input...

    I am the ETPharaoh
     
  5. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Oh, I'm talking about some of his "new" poses. They had me laughing, but laughing in disgust at first.

    Example: Lion dances around with two hands up in the air in a clownish-way and a silly look and says, "Why am I so good?!"
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Ugh, that doesn't sound good.
     

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