Character Difficulty

Discussion in 'General' started by HotSauceNelly, Jul 26, 2020.

  1. HotSauceNelly

    HotSauceNelly Well-Known Member

    So....What makes a character tough to use in your opinion?

    Is it where they fall on a tier list? Or might it be how many good versus bad match ups they encounter? Perhaps it's how technical their movelist is to execute? Or is it a combination of all of the above?

    Wherever your opinion falls, the question is meant to give insight into the varying schools of thought that exist on the matter; subjective and objective.

    Here's one argument I commonly hear between an Akira and Jacky player. The AKIRA player argues that Jacky is easier to use because his strings and speed give him a solid command of distance and pace... along with having explosive overall damage output without much being needed in the way of technical command inputs. He also punctuates that stance by pointing out that Jacky has a sweep....as if he really needed that too!?! o_O

    The Jacky player usually counters all of that with two simple words; "GUARD BREAK!!!" :LOL:

    What's your opinion???
     
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  2. kungfusmurf

    kungfusmurf Well-Known Member

    AK player counters that with one word "EVADE!!!" :cry:
     
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  3. DomAug

    DomAug spoiled brat Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    domaug
    i think a lot goes into what makes a character "easy" and what makes them "hard", many are from the list in your OP.

    - Command execution (though, this only applies to a small collection of moves in the game IMO)
    - Specific character tools (stuff like knee class launcher, guard break, sabaki, etc.)
    - Matchups (can they open up certain characters better than others, etc.)
    - Fundamental tools (you can probably put this under character tools, but stuff like their elbow, their P string(s), if they can cancel their standing K with a G, etc.)

    with command execution, most moves in the game aren't very hard to perform for anyone, but we know there are certain moves that require serious training to master like just-frames, crouch dash buffering, etc. so the high execution adds to the character's difficulty IMO BUT depending on how good the move itself is, that could also make the character a little easier if that makes sense.

    example: Jacky's 6_K,G. i don't know about you guys, but i have a VERY hard time landing this move whenever i try playing him. it's a considerably difficult move to perform and if you can't execute it at all, you lose one of his best tools. however, if you can master it and throw it out at will, Jacky is going to give most of your opponents a rough time. it can let you gameplan differently than you otherwise would have.

    (for the most part, we will assume it makes the character more difficult to master)

    fundamental tools and specific tools also play a role. what's offered with their standing jab? their elbow? do they have reversals? how strong are their sabaki? what tools do they have at their disposal for creating oki headaches and 50-50s? do they have a guard break(s)? IMO, as a general rule, the fewer options a character has, the harder they are as they approach higher levels of play, but they could also be easier at lower levels just out of virtue of having fewer things to learn.

    matchups: your tools vs their tools. how are your setups vs their standard counter options? are their tools limiting what you feel comfortable doing? now VF has spoiled us in that there appears to be so much balance that matchups are closer for each character than they would be in other games. in any case, i think a character who has fewer good or even matchups is inherently harder to master.
     
    HotSauceNelly likes this.
  4. Futaba

    Futaba New Member

    PSN:
    ogcdemon
    XBL:
    GannimadeB
    Execution. Be it command execution or combo execution. Even with years of practice there's no guarantee that I can execute moves or time the combos correctly in the heat of battle. The most important aspect is to feel natural when using my character, and execution barrier/strenous commands can hamper such feeling.
     
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  5. HotSauceNelly

    HotSauceNelly Well-Known Member

    That guard break is a game changer for sure but you're right; Akira is linear as all hell! However.....dude in my opinion is one of the most difficult characters in the game to use while also being one of the best. Akira puts tons of wear and tear on the hands but it all seems to be worth it once you master him.
     
  6. kungfusmurf

    kungfusmurf Well-Known Member

    If anyone thinks a character is too strong, why not use that character then? My opinion is that either the so call character is too hard mentally & technically or it doesn't fit their core personality.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
  7. Jason Elbow

    Jason Elbow Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Its ok now...
    XBL:
    Jason ELBOW AKT
    Well with Lion its several things like not having a 17 frame knee class launcher, or not having really damanging combos w/o a wall, or his light weight or struggling against heavier weight opponents. There are several.
     
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  8. DomAug

    DomAug spoiled brat Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    domaug
    i think Akira is perhaps the best character in the game. the reasons i don't play him are because i'm really bad at executing his more technical moves and i'm not a big fan of his play style. i have more fun with Lion who is also really good in FS but probably mid-high tier.

    it's purely style with me though. i really like Mantis kung fu.
     
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  9. Tricky

    Tricky "9000; Eileen Flow Dojoer"

    I've heard them make this point many a time. I agree with them both.
     
    DomAug likes this.
  10. HotSauceNelly

    HotSauceNelly Well-Known Member

    So because he has no 17 frame knee class launcher is why you consider him difficult to use? I see! That makes sense!

    However.....if I were to play devil's advocate I'd say that he's not difficult because although it's true that he doesn't have that type of launcher and he is a lightweight, he more than makes up for it with a ton of amazing low attacks that lead to great damage or stop the opponents momentum by causing a knock down, he's one of the rare characters that has an 11 frame punch, he has mid screen combos that cause a lot of push back, and he possesses the holy grail of moves....a GUARD BREAK!

    I'm not saying that I'm right 3rd shift...just sharing another school of thought from someone looking at Lion from the outside! :p
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
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  11. HotSauceNelly

    HotSauceNelly Well-Known Member

    That debut will go on with those two till the end of time! :ROTFL:
     
  12. HotSauceNelly

    HotSauceNelly Well-Known Member

    Just for the record....the characters that I feel are the most difficult to use in no particular order are:
    Lei-Fei
    Akira
    Vanessa
    Brad
    Taka
    Jean

    Honorable mention: Aoi
     
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  13. Jason Elbow

    Jason Elbow Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Its ok now...
    XBL:
    Jason ELBOW AKT
    The only ones I agree with on this list is Lei-Fei, Akira and Van. And I agree with Lion not being difficult to use, but he is difficult as far as enacting offense. He does have threatening mids like 33 P+K P+G, 6 P with the threat of the follow up P, 3 K which grants +8 on crouch hit and on CH and P+K which knocks down and is a combo starter. But majority of the offense will come from his lows. Many of which are punishable on block and is unsafe even on hit.
     
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  14. Oioron

    Oioron Well-Known Member Gold Supporter

    When I got back into playing again, I wasn't particularly happy with losing some of Kage's tools and damage potential. Since I don't have much time to play and practice, I thought I needed to switch to a character that's strong and can be straight-forward. Taka seems to fit that description.

    I thought, that Taka can be effective with less moves to think about relative to Kage. Therefore, I thought I could think faster and make choices faster.

    What I found was that while my assumptions were true about Taka regarding his strengths, it just didn't feel right. The reasons that I had for picking Taka were working against me. I was too robotic, too sluggish, and the game wasn't fun. So in that regard, Taka is very hard for me to use.
     
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  15. kungfusmurf

    kungfusmurf Well-Known Member

    Did your Tummy tell you it wasn't Yummy? LOL
     
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  16. Tricky

    Tricky "9000; Eileen Flow Dojoer"

    I actually think Eileen is pretty hard to use at a mid -> high level. Easy to get into though. all those quarter circle motions really limit her options cuz of the input buffering system. I'm constantly fighting the input buffer system.
     
    DomAug likes this.
  17. KrsJin

    KrsJin Well-Known Member

    ^That's a whole 'nother layer or area for discussion. How easy is it to apply a character at varying skill levels or against certain playstyles.
     
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  18. HotSauceNelly

    HotSauceNelly Well-Known Member

    I agree. Very very easy to get into...but perhaps a bit more difficult the higher you go in skill. I'd recommend her to a beginner because she's not too difficult to initially use and she has what I like to call FLOW. I also put Shun, Kage, Lei-Fei and Jacky in that FLOW category.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
    Tricky likes this.
  19. HotSauceNelly

    HotSauceNelly Well-Known Member

    True. Entirely different Conversation with tons of opinions I'm sure! Lol! Hmmm.....I always see you in the stream chats KrsJin. Are you on XBL? If so what's your gamertag?
     
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  20. Jason Elbow

    Jason Elbow Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Its ok now...
    XBL:
    Jason ELBOW AKT
    I feel Taka is much more easier to use then say... Wolf. I stil cant consistently execute his just frames like PGS and Emerald Flowasion. Taka is really simple. And he hits like a freight train running. His main weakness are strings that naturally combo on him and not being able to 33G from -5. Hes not even slow as he still has the basic frame execution on standard attacks like everyone else (12 frame P, 14 frame elbow, 10 frame throws ect).
     
    HotSauceNelly likes this.

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