Combo damage stuff...

Somewhere in the dim recesses of my memory (trust me, it's dark in there), I seem to remember a discussion of how to do more damage in combos...i.e. don't use the same move twice in a row, as it drops all of the damage drom the rest of the moves drastically. (1/2)

I think the example was Akira's trip, SJK, PK(G), PK(G), DLC which did less damage than trip, SJK, P, DLC. I don't think the same rules apply in the DC version though. If this were true, then trip, SJK, SJK, Yoho would do less than trip, SJK, Yoho, SJK. Both do 82, though. Has anyone been looking to see if damage for combos has been revamped?

 

>don't use the same move twice in a row, as it drops all of the damage drom the rest of the moves drastically.

no, it just applies to the move being repeated. ie. hypothetical knee, P, P, knee with jeff. knee: 42 points at maximum MC damage. first P is 75 % of 14 points, rounded up (game engine will always round up when it comes to fractions and damage points): 11 points. second punch is 75 % of 11 points, rounded up: 9 points. third float is 75 % of normal: 21 points.

i'm probably off there somewhere, but it's a general explanation of how the float mechanics work.

but in your example, the two SJK's are seen as different moves; the first, floating SJK is unique because it does 30 points after the ST instead of 20. it differentiates the same way that F+P and P are seen as completely separate moves by the CPU (you can see this with kage's TFT combos..TFT knee F+P PK slide does 100 while TFT knee P PK slide does 98)

so ST, SJK, SJK, yoho: 10, 30, 15, 27 = 82. and ST, SJK, yoho, SJK: 10, 30, 27, 15 = 82.

i think.

 

For arcade:

First move (floater) = full damage
second move = 75% of normal damage (if this move is the same as the previous it does only 50%)
third move = 75% of normal damage (if this move is the same as the previous it does only 50%)
fourth + = 50% of normal damage

So,

-ST, SJK, SJK, yoho = 10+30+10+18 = 68
-ST, SJK, yoho, SJK = 10+30+27+10 = 77

One more thing, I think a canned combo is considered as 1 move. Like: TFT, knee, pppk = 3 moves

 

*sigh*. why the fuck do i bother? everyone has to be right, eh? do a little more research before blabbing. that formula i gave WAS for the arcade, and i have an arcade tb right behind me in this room, where i can check damages (vs. diagram in test mode). like i said above, it's 75 % of the damage for the previous, identical move (which itself it 75 % of the normal damage). that may not make sense..why not just say 50 % (like you did)? because the game rounds fractions up, and it will be different than 50 % straight.

 

Re: my attempt

OK, I'll make my attempt to be right...

2nd, 3rd hit of the float combo = Damage x 0.75

4th hit = Damage x 0.75 x 0.875

5th hit (and beyond) = Damage x 0.75 x 0.75

When same moves are used in a row = Damage x 0.75 x 0.75

** all fractions are rounded up at each multiplication. Thus, if 30pts move connects at the 5th hit, 30 x 0.75 = 22.5 -> 23, 23 x 0.75 = 17.25 -> 18, the move yields 18 pts of damage.

(Source: Gamest TB Mook p134)

To me, this makes sense except for one thing. I'm not sure how to incorporate the same-move-penalty into the regular formula. For example, how do we incorporate the penalty to 3rd hit?
Does it become:

1) Damage x 0.75 x 0.75

2) Damage x 0.75 x 0.75 x 0.75

For 4th hit:

1) Damage x 0.75 x 0.75

2) Damage x 0.75 x 0.75 x 0.875

3) Damage x 0.75 x 0.75 x 0.75 x 0.875

 

Re: my attempt

i just love how you translate info from the mooks only when someone sticks their neck out, or when there's a dispute...

why not follow jirawat's example and translate just for the hell of it, for the good of everyone, not for when something needs to proven?

 

Re: my attempt

Hey Rich, calm down. Shota is just trying to help here. He has no obligation to translate anything if he doesn't want to.

ice-9 | Sennin

 

Re: my attempt

obligation? of course not. i only asked why he doesn't. i wasn't telling him to. and apparently the only time he feels he's obligated to translate is when something needs correction. yes, it's productive in the end, but it's arguable if it's in the right spirit.

i think a lot of people here could use a course in reading comprehension..

 

Spilled milk

Well it seems to me that the only only to truly check these *theories* is to actually looks at the damages the various combos, etc yield. So, since the TB Mook is for the arcade, I'd go with Rich's calculations - seeing as he's the only one with access to versus damage charts for an arcade TB unit. If the arcade damages don't match up with Gamest, then it would be logical to conclude that Gamest was wrong or perhaps they typoed, etc...who knows.

As far as the Dreamcast is concerned - who knows? It feels like the only the arcade and DC share is the name of the characters.
Mike, anything in the DC Mook about float modifiers?

Anyway, back to the original question from Nutlog: Why does ST, SJK, SJK, Yoho do the same damage as ST, SJK, Yoho, SJK? Because, as Rich *already* said, the two SJKs are actually different moves, etc...

His formulas are correct - they're the same ones that were provided in the VF3 Act 1 Mook (I think - GodEater, you got Kbcat's Act 1 lying around?) and they haven't changed for TB.

cheers,

<font color=white> Llanfair the prized <font color=green>cabbage</font color=green></font color=white>

 

Ok, thanks, Rich. I had just always thought that after you repeated a move it penalized the damage for the rest of the combo. This clears things up a bit.

 

Re: wrong spirit

it's arguable if it's in the right spirit.

haha...I understand, I sometimes feel that way about myself too.

My biggest excuse is my work. When I work from 8am to 9pm, I have very little time left for myself. I come home at 9, do little email/phone answering, it's already 10. all right...I have ONE hour to do something. I can do:

1) study
2) muse on T.S. Eliot
3) Translate Legend of Galactic Heroes
4) practice guitar, to be next John Petrucci
5) practice Karaoke for the next party
.
.
.
5) VF

I wound't say VF is not a priority, but there are other things I want/need to do.

 

Re: my attempt

More people should take courses in effective writing too.

ice-9 | Sennin

 

Re: my attempt

Ok, now I went back and I understand why the ST>SJK, P,P,DLC does only marginally more than just using one, because you push all of the DLC into the lower damage portions automatically, since it's the 4-6th hits, versus the 3-5, and you end up losing the extra damage off of the first two hits. Makes sense now.

Combo with 2 Ps does 100, one P does 96. It's just not worth the effort.

And the earlier analogy of the TFT knee is slightly in error. Damage assignment as hits does not begin until actual damage is inflicted. So for TFT situations, the TFT itself is not counted in damage calcs, easily enough seen by the "perfect" knee getting 47 on damage, while a "missed" knee does 38. That's the normal damage of the knee, and since only the first move does full damage, the TFT does not count as a hit towards damage calcs, and all hits for canned combos have damage calcs assesed to each hit. They are not one move. If that were the case, TFT>knee, P,P,b+P,K would do 99, but instead it does 93, because each hit of the canned is assessed damage individually. They are all individual moves, so the P,P portion each do 75% normal each (8), the helix does 12 instead of 13, and the heelkick does 18 instead of 23. All because they move down the list to the 4th and 5th hits, versus all "being the next move".

Thanks for the help, Rich and Shota. I really appreciate it.