Community Tier Chart

I disagree with everything you just said.

 

The sweep is good near a wall and for breaking ECD with its speed. It's a good move, but I don't agree that it's one of the scariest moves in the game.

Also, Brad has a sweep with the same execution but with more damage. It can also lead to wall combos. Is that also one of the scariest moves in the game?

 

Let me rephrase.. One of his most useful Moves.. But please Elaborate then......Its ok to disagree. Low Level players don't possess the intelligence to be conditioned into watching out for of any specific move anyway.... Moving right along from this post.. Waste of time....

 

You didn't say one of his scariest lows. You said one of THE scariest lows. Whatever, I'm wasting my time...

 

You said it's one of the scariest moves in the game, it isn't. It does nothing to make the opponent scared to guard high because it is -4 on normal hit and does a measly 20 damage. It's -18(lol) on guard and you only get a knockdown on counter hit. Sure it will beat evade but so does his mid circular which is both faster and safer and knocks down on any hit. It's a worse low poke than the low backfist, a worse evade beater than his other circular. The only upsides are that it is very fast for a sweep and near a wall it DOES become scary.

Also, saying it's the player's problem if they struggle to beat yutori with Jacky is a cop out. This is supposed to be a comparison thread between characters and when it comes to beating yutori Jacky is not very good compared to a lot of characters. That much is just factual.

 

lol unorthodox eh? Yea genzen ive been working on that poking game. P~6P,PP6PP~1P+K, 4P~6PK etc.

 

gwe chuie 15frames 2kk is 24 frames

 

Yea i just figured out how good 1 K+G. Took me while lol. For everyone else i'll tell you. Like Chibiya said 2p<Jump kick, Throw <abare launcher. But also lows and 17frame launchers or higher<2p, high <lows or 2p, Mids< SS sabaki for mid p's. You can throw if the freeze up. You can even evade if you want. On CH you can even combo off of it if they dont tech roll and depending on how they fall. If they fall on there stomach, 66 (you have to dash 4 it to work)-9k it does like 42 with double dragon on most characters but its something. If they fall on there back, you can catch them with 66~2p~1p+kpk or p. Yes ive tested it, it works on most characters.

 

That's just the execution frames of the moves themselves though, right? I'm wanting to know how many SS frames are also executed before I can use an attack. It doesn't feel like I can do SS and then do the kicks without at least a few frames of the SS needing to be performed (meaning, it doesn't seem like he can attack instantly from a SS).

SDS... I'm not saying I can't deal with yutori; I'm saying that Jacky's anti-yutori (or more specifically, his lows, which are arguably the best way to beat yutori) seems weaker than most other characters. As for your comment about his sweep being scary - again, that's only if/when the fight progresses to a position where you can make use of the wall combos, which is a very small portion of a fight (if it even occurs). The rest of the time, what have you got to fear from it? Getting hit for small damage and gaining a decent frame advantage? It's worse than his mid full-circular in every way, so the only reason to use it is because of its low properties, and as a low move, it's middling at best.

 

also idk the SS start up frames. im guessing like 5 to 11 frames depending on the move. Also test everything i just wrote with 1K+G. you'll see that everything works. You and elite are way wrong because 1K+G is guess for the opponent as well.

 

I'm not sure I understood your post. From what I could get from it, all you're saying is that you can combo from it on CH? Is that what you meant? That doesn't have much value in my eyes, since, if I'm using a low, it's to beat yutori, which won't be a counter-hit. If I'm looking for a counter hit, I'll use something safer/better.

You said "You can beat anything with it if you guess correctly." What does this mean? That the sweep can beat everything? Or that, if you guess correctly, there's always a tool to beat that option? If it's the former, that just isn't true; if it's the latter, then yes, if you correctly predict your opponent's move then you can obviously beat it, but that doesn't mean that certain characters don't have better tools for the job.

From what I can gather, you value the potential damage on counter-hit more than I do, I value the ability to knock-down on normal hit more than you do. I would much prefer to switch to a sweep that knocks down on NH and has no combo on CH.

 

So this is kind of a VFDC tier list? File from the 1st post gives this:

Brad
Akira
Jean
Taka
Lau
Wolf
Kage
Goh
Jacky
Lion
Vane (O)
Aoi
Lei-Fei
Shun
Pai
Jeffry
El Blaze
Sarah
Vane (D)
Eileen

 

LOL at where jacky is.

 

Jacky players in denial :/

 

Wolf Lau Kage>Jacky Oo

 

I don't even think that lows should be a category.

BTW, Brad might be ranked highest because of my input. Do you guys think I'm giving the guy too much credit or what?

 

Jacky is still low because is defense rating is at 1 which I think should be revised (as indicated by the blue column).But I'm waiting for more input from you guys, till we reach a consensus.I would give a 2.5 or 3 but I don't know that much about Jacky so...

I don't understand people posting "WTF is this tier list" while:
-The thing is still a work in progress
-Marks can be changed by posting here to explain why you don't agree. Only marks that I'm trying not to change anymore are the gray lines (Combo vulnerability, Throws, standing punish)
-It doesn't have to exactly reflect the Arcadia tier list
-Everybody may have a different tier list in their head


So please try to post constructive content instead of just stating what you dislike.
Also note that CURRENTLY Wolf and Lau are 45 and Jacky is 44.5, I don't know if it's worth posting that Wolf is > to Jacky as it's only a 0.5 out of 65...

Since the first post I said that may be we should weight the different category as some are more important than others, but I think we should do that after the marks are over.

 

I think it would be constructive to limit some of these categories. Lows and throws fall under offense, for instance. I think that you should either omit some categories, or omit offense altogether and retain the sub categories. I think that having too many categories confuses things, as you'll be taking too many things in isolation. For instance, Jacky's sweep at the wall is functionally a sort of tracking high guard break that avoids high attacks. But you're not going to figure that into the equation since that should fall under lows? Also, if a character has two 80 damage throws with two different directional inputs, you're going to omit this from anti-evade because it should just fall into the throws category?

I appreciate the intent of this thread, and I think that it's constructive. May I just offer some suggestions as to how we should rate the characters?

Anti-Defense - As opposed to offense, as offense implies general attacking. I'm talking about throws, mids, and anti-tech stuff such moves designed to negate certain defensive techniques. Jacky's sweep is the kind of thing I have in mind. Things like guard breaks and catch throws would also fall into this category. We might also factor in Tricky's recent discovery of strings jailing on hit after evading dash cancels, since they can only use a high or low guard in this instance.

Combo Vulnerability - As opposed to weight, since there are hit box issues and also the way in which Taka can be floated. Some strings are also a natural combo on him only.

Zoning - How good is a character at keep away, back dashing into attacks, closing distance, etc?

Risk vs. Reward - At how much risk does a character place himself to net benefits? For instance, Akira is only at -5 when his is guarded, but he can make a combo if it hits. He would rank highly in this category. A character like Eileen can pressure well with her strings, but she can be launched after a successful evade a fair amount of the time. That means that she'll have to take more risks to get good damage. Eileen is a character who probably wouldn't have a good score in this category. Does a character's throws tend to leave him side turned when escaped? This is another factor to consider.

Offense - This would include things such as the frequency of a character's frame advantage and sabaki/inashi type moves in his arsenal. A character like Goh would score highly in this character, due to his kick/knee sabaki move and punch/elbow sabaki into his special stance. Vanessa tends to have good frames on guard in OS, so she might also be placed highly in this category.

Damage - Not just damage from combos, but damage overall.

Walls - This category will overlap with anti-defense, since every character has a low that will stagger against a wall into more damage. How well can a character pressure against a wall? How well can he get an opponent to the wall? How strong are his wall combos? This will overlap with other categories, such as damage. However, the walls situation will be considered in isolation in this case.

Side Pressure - This will overlap with some categories too, but now this will be considered on its own. How well can a character create the side situation? Aoi might have problems with her , since ECD can beat that in many instances. Lion would fare well though, because he can create this situation more easily when compared to other characters. How damaging are side counter hit combos? How strong is the nitaku situation? Brad would rank highly in this category, as he can pressure with a mid which becomes only TC on guard and a catch throw to overcome the fact that only one TE needs to be entered to escape from all side throws.

And that's it for now. I also think that we should work on our scaling. I say rate from 1-5 with no decimals. Let's face it, as a whole, we don't understand the entire cast as well as we'd like. So how can we rate our characters against others with so much precision when we don't know them that well? But in general, having too many numbers just makes things harder. There's a reason why movies are rated from 1-4, and hotels from 1-5. As far as weighting categories, let's decide what they are now and rate them! Maybe we could have a scale of 1-3 or something, as these categories all seem pretty important to me. And keep in mind that a 1 in this instance doesn't mean that something isn't important, but isn't as important as the other categories. I probably don't need to explain this, but it might feel weird to give a low number to things that are important.

Well, please let me know what you guys think.